Discriminated Against By Speech Teacher And Classmates

[Guest]

In my communications class, I was assigned a self-introductory speech with three main aspects of my life that led me to my career choice. I chose the outdoors, PTSD and my job at REI. I was excited to tell the class about my hopes and dreams to make the world a better place, and to FINALLY speak out about my religious trauma. But it didn't go as planned.

 

"My father read Proverbs 30:17, which says, 'The eye that mocks the father, that scorns his mother, will be pecked out by the ravens of the valley, will be eaten by vultures.' My father told my three year old brother these words when he would disobey."

 

Half the class LAUGHED. They thought it was a fucking joke.

 

I continued, "Now you may laugh, but to a three year old, a threat like this isn't funny."

 

Their faces hardened.

 

I continued.

 

Applause.

 

"Good speech," the teacher said.

 

The next speech was by a man named B, who spoke of how his marriage and career went to shambles and, Whadaya know, how GOD brought him through. How "when my wife left me, I realized that Jesus never left me. When my career failed, I realized that Jesus never fails." He went on and on and on, essentially preaching.

 

And then there was another.

 

And another.

 

And another.

 

Out of the nine people who spoke today, five of them mentioned church,faith and God. No wonder they laughed at me.

 

The final straw was the teacher. He greatly praised the Christians. He gently praised me.

 

As I handed him my outline, he looked me in the eye and said very seriously, "you know not all Christians are like that, right? Me, I'm a New Testament kind of guy."

 

"Yeah, I know. I have Christian friends," I replied sweetly.

 

I fought tears as I walked out the door. Who the fuck gave him the right to fucking say that?

 

I realized I'm a huge target for shit like this. It keeps happening; this was just more pronounced. I'm thinking it's because 1) I'm a woman, 2) Religion hurt me so people think I'm just an angry helpless victim rather than that I also studied the Bible and have used science to disprove it, 3) I used to be a Christian. They cant understand how I'd dare forsake the entire faith, 4) that I'm young and impressionable and unwise.

 

Nonetheless, I hate it. Two weeks ago, I told a man I was having a nice conversation with about my Christian background and he asked me if I was still a Christian. I said, "I am an atheist." His face hardened and he told me that no matter where I go, God is coming for me and that I can never run away. That I am young and don't know anything. It frightened me.

 

I am so amazed at the hate from Christians! Aren't they supposed to be loving? All I am to them is a project, a weak, victimized, bitter woman! Bullshit! I'm a strong, badass warrior who has been through shit and they don't have the right to fucking preach at me!

[MOHO]

Abijah,

 

Why is it that religious zealots (or even Luke-warm religious folks) get to say whatever they feel but you and I get scorned for expressing OUR thoughts and feelings. And at least we can back our viewpoint up with science, logic, and reason. 

 

Well, to answer my own question, this double-standard is due to fear. Those who cannot handle the concept of nothing after death fight tooth-and-nail to protect their delusion. I suppose group dynamics comes into play as well - but it's mostly fear. Xtianity is a fear-based religion you know. 

 

Anyway, regardless of the reason, I share your anger loneliness at not always feeling comfortable sharing my feelings. Here in the bible-belt of the Pacific North-West, Douglas County is NOT the place to feel accepted as an agnostic/atheist. That, not withstanding, your instructor, and some of your class mates, are just pricks and bullies to pick on you like that.

 

You are NOT alone.

    - MOHO

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I'm curious.  Is this a private institution you are attending or is it publicly funded (in any way)?

[Daffodil]

Your last paragraph - print that out and tape it to your mirror so you can start every day with that thought in your mind.

[GirlOnFire]

Oh, boy, can I ever relate to this!  I have dealt with this quite a bit, mostly from family, but some from friends and "well-meaning" (if you can call it that) friends-of-friends on Facebook or whatever when the topic of religion comes up.

 

I don't know if this will help, but this is actually part of a letter I drafted (but never sent, because apparently I'm a bit of a coward) to my ultra in-your-face-type Christian uncle, and I have actually said bits and pieces of this to people when they won't let it go, and it usually shuts them up.  Anyway, here's what works for me:

You wouldn’t tell a drug addict that the best way to cure their addiction is by hanging out with drug dealers, right?  You also wouldn’t tell an alcoholic that the cure to his disease is found in spending more time in the liquor store, correct?  No, because that would be completely crazy, and definitely wouldn’t help the situation.  You also wouldn’t tell a rape victim that to overcome the pain of her/his rape that the best cure is to spend time with her/his rapist, right?  Again, no, because that would be completely nuts, not to mention horribly traumatizing.  You also wouldn’t say to a survivor of physical abuse that the best cure is to go spend more time with the person who beat them, right?  That would cause worse problems, and probably further psychological damage, right?  Yes, it would.  So, to tell me -- a spiritual abuse survivor -- that the best cure is more church/God/Jesus/prayer/Christian-y stuff, well….that’s just as crazy as all the other examples I listed above, and not at all conducive to proper healing.  

I don't ask you to understand my experience, but to have compassion for the fact that I need to heal, and that more church is hardly the correct “prescription” to cure what "ails" me.  The only thing you can offer me that will actually help me is love, understanding, support, and the time and space to heal as I see fit….even if that means distancing myself from everything related to Christianity, and even if it means denouncing my Christian faith.

[Guest]

I'm curious.  Is this a private institution you are attending or is it publicly funded (in any way)?

 

It is an entirely publicly funded community college. 

[Guest]

Abijah,

 

Why is it that religious zealots (or even Luke-warm religious folks) get to say whatever they feel but you and I get scorned for expressing OUR thoughts and feelings. And at least we can back our viewpoint up with science, logic, and reason. 

 

Well, to answer my own question, this double-standard is due to fear. Those who cannot handle the concept of nothing after death fight tooth-and-nail to protect their delusion. I suppose group dynamics comes into play as well - but it's mostly fear. Xtianity is a fear-based religion you know. 

 

Anyway, regardless of the reason, I share your anger loneliness at not always feeling comfortable sharing my feelings. Here in the bible-belt of the Pacific North-West, Douglas County is NOT the place to feel accepted as an agnostic/atheist. That, not withstanding, your instructor, and some of your class mates, are just pricks and bullies to pick on you like that.

 

You are NOT alone.

    - MOHO

 

Thanks so much <3 Yeah, I'm in Marion County here in Oregon, and it's just delightful. Not. 

 

I'm debating whether or not to base my next speech on Religious Trauma Syndrome and basically how horrible religion is. 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

I'm curious.  Is this a private institution you are attending or is it publicly funded (in any way)?

 

It is an entirely publicly funded community college. 

 

In that case, you have rights and need to exercise them.  

[Guest]

Oh, boy, can I ever relate to this!  I have dealt with this quite a bit, mostly from family, but some from friends and "well-meaning" (if you can call it that) friends-of-friends on Facebook or whatever when the topic of religion comes up.

 

I don't know if this will help, but this is actually part of a letter I drafted (but never sent, because apparently I'm a bit of a coward) to my ultra in-your-face-type Christian uncle, and I have actually said bits and pieces of this to people when they won't let it go, and it usually shuts them up.  Anyway, here's what works for me:

 

You wouldn’t tell a drug addict that the best way to cure their addiction is by hanging out with drug dealers, right?  You also wouldn’t tell an alcoholic that the cure to his disease is found in spending more time in the liquor store, correct?  No, because that would be completely crazy, and definitely wouldn’t help the situation.  You also wouldn’t tell a rape victim that to overcome the pain of her/his rape that the best cure is to spend time with her/his rapist, right?  Again, no, because that would be completely nuts, not to mention horribly traumatizing.  You also wouldn’t say to a survivor of physical abuse that the best cure is to go spend more time with the person who beat them, right?  That would cause worse problems, and probably further psychological damage, right?  Yes, it would.  So, to tell me -- a spiritual abuse survivor -- that the best cure is more church/God/Jesus/prayer/Christian-y stuff, well….that’s just as crazy as all the other examples I listed above, and not at all conducive to proper healing.  

I don't ask you to understand my experience, but to have compassion for the fact that I need to heal, and that more church is hardly the correct “prescription” to cure what "ails" me.  The only thing you can offer me that will actually help me is love, understanding, support, and the time and space to heal as I see fit….even if that means distancing myself from everything related to Christianity, and even if it means denouncing my Christian faith.

 

That's exactly what I want to say to people, but could never ever find the words. Thank you SO SO SO much. If you don't mind, I'd like to use this.

[Guest]

 

 

I'm curious.  Is this a private institution you are attending or is it publicly funded (in any way)?

 

It is an entirely publicly funded community college. 

 

In that case, you have rights and need to exercise them.  

 

 

I'm terrified to do so, but my partner said I should as well. 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

If you can overcome faith, you can overcome fear.

 

 

 

...

 

 

 

Damn, I'm deep sometimes.

[GirlOnFire]

 

Oh, boy, can I ever relate to this!  I have dealt with this quite a bit, mostly from family, but some from friends and "well-meaning" (if you can call it that) friends-of-friends on Facebook or whatever when the topic of religion comes up.

 

I don't know if this will help, but this is actually part of a letter I drafted (but never sent, because apparently I'm a bit of a coward) to my ultra in-your-face-type Christian uncle, and I have actually said bits and pieces of this to people when they won't let it go, and it usually shuts them up.  Anyway, here's what works for me:

 

You wouldn’t tell a drug addict that the best way to cure their addiction is by hanging out with drug dealers, right?  You also wouldn’t tell an alcoholic that the cure to his disease is found in spending more time in the liquor store, correct?  No, because that would be completely crazy, and definitely wouldn’t help the situation.  You also wouldn’t tell a rape victim that to overcome the pain of her/his rape that the best cure is to spend time with her/his rapist, right?  Again, no, because that would be completely nuts, not to mention horribly traumatizing.  You also wouldn’t say to a survivor of physical abuse that the best cure is to go spend more time with the person who beat them, right?  That would cause worse problems, and probably further psychological damage, right?  Yes, it would.  So, to tell me -- a spiritual abuse survivor -- that the best cure is more church/God/Jesus/prayer/Christian-y stuff, well….that’s just as crazy as all the other examples I listed above, and not at all conducive to proper healing.  

I don't ask you to understand my experience, but to have compassion for the fact that I need to heal, and that more church is hardly the correct “prescription” to cure what "ails" me.  The only thing you can offer me that will actually help me is love, understanding, support, and the time and space to heal as I see fit….even if that means distancing myself from everything related to Christianity, and even if it means denouncing my Christian faith.

 

That's exactly what I want to say to people, but could never ever find the words. Thank you SO SO SO much. If you don't mind, I'd like to use this.

 

 

Go for it!  I'm just glad I could help!

[GirlOnFire]

 

Abijah,

 

Why is it that religious zealots (or even Luke-warm religious folks) get to say whatever they feel but you and I get scorned for expressing OUR thoughts and feelings. And at least we can back our viewpoint up with science, logic, and reason. 

 

Well, to answer my own question, this double-standard is due to fear. Those who cannot handle the concept of nothing after death fight tooth-and-nail to protect their delusion. I suppose group dynamics comes into play as well - but it's mostly fear. Xtianity is a fear-based religion you know. 

 

Anyway, regardless of the reason, I share your anger loneliness at not always feeling comfortable sharing my feelings. Here in the bible-belt of the Pacific North-West, Douglas County is NOT the place to feel accepted as an agnostic/atheist. That, not withstanding, your instructor, and some of your class mates, are just pricks and bullies to pick on you like that.

 

You are NOT alone.

    - MOHO

 

Thanks so much <3 Yeah, I'm in Marion County here in Oregon, and it's just delightful. Not. 

 

I'm debating whether or not to base my next speech on Religious Trauma Syndrome and basically how horrible religion is. 

 

I used to live in Clatsop County.  I didn't have the courage to admit my doubts/deconversion to anyone up there....I would've been socially crucified!  So I waited until I moved back to CA and was in a much more accepting environment before I started letting the truth come out.  I can see that with Douglas County, too (narrow-mindedness), but I would expect Marion to be a lot more accepting of atheists.  Weird.

[midniterider]

As I handed him my outline, he looked me in the eye and said very seriously, "you know not all Christians are like that, right? Me, I'm a New Testament kind of guy."

 

 

 

Does new testament kinda of guy believe people burn in hell? Original Sin?

 

Sure, not all Christians are assholes, but then again, some are. And Christians somehow think that horrible bible stories are palatable for young children. 

 

"Jesus bleeding on the cross! For you, little Johnny. Isn't that nice of him? What? You want to watch Game of Thrones? Nooooooo! Too violent. You're way too young." LoL.

 

...

 

Sorry to hear that my Oregon is going downhill. It seemed pretty secular when I grew up there.

[midniterider]

Abi: Nonetheless, I hate it. Two weeks ago, I told a man I was having a nice conversation with about my Christian background and he asked me if I was still a Christian. I said, "I am an atheist." His face hardened and he told me that no matter where I go, God is coming for me and that I can never run away. That I am young and don't know anything. It frightened me.

 

...

 

Maybe only discuss religion with known non-religious people, like at an atheist meetup. When I was 25 I was working with a group of people who I could really relate to. Social misfits, people who cussed a lot, smoked, drank ... I thought I could really count on these people to be like me. haha. Then the boss asked me one day what religion I was. I said, "Atheist" and she was like "Really?" She was incredulous. It was like I told her I was voting for Hillary (haha) or something. People may never go to church and never mention Jesus and behave really heathenlike until someone mentions atheism...then they get all churchy all of a sudden. It's ridiculous. I don't tell people anything about my religion anymore. It's really isn't anyone else's business. (imo)

[♦ Fuego ♦]

There is a stigma attached to the word atheist that makes people assume militant spiteful tightass with disdain for others. This isn't true of most atheists, even if some are that way. But it is a form of assumption and pigeon-holing that is easier than actually talking to someone.

 

And believers all feel like they need to get in at least one jab for Jesus so he knows they are faithful in the face of the devil, you spooky girl you!

[miamia]

You won't know who your friends are until you have the cajones to flip the bird (mostly figuratively) where it needs to.  If they are thin skinned and offended, then they are not your friends.

 

truth

[Lilith666]

I understand that you felt trivialized when the class laughed at what you said about the bible verse. But it's so over the top that maybe they didn't understand you were being serious. Not that it was polite; just saying they might not have grasped what you were trying to convey.

 

The teacher "greatly" praised the others but "gently" praised you? Okay... he still said something nice about you and told you it was a good speech. I get that you felt like he jumped on your topic to defend himself, but all he said was that not all Christians are like that. He didn't put you down or suggest you hadn't really been mistreated. Unless there's something you didn't add. If - emphasis on if - there was a difference between his opinion of the others' speeches and yours, that doesn't mean it was because they are Christian and you aren't; assessments are based on a lot of different criteria.

 

When you have been raised fundamentalist and are female, it can seem like sexism against women is a huge issue because you're surrounded by it at home and in church where so much of your social life takes place, but after you get out things tend to look different. I know the people you talked to are Christian, but I'm not sure what they did that made you think they looked down on you because you're a woman. Most people aren't like the ones we know who see women as secondary. It helps to do your best, remind yourself you're capable and focus on that instead of what it seems like people are thinking or saying about you. Your competence and belief in yourself are more important than someone's opinion of you. In my experience, the feeling of being separate from others as a woman tends to dissipate once you distance yourself from the church and work on getting your life on track.

 

Edit: I wanted to add that your professor probably shouldn't have said not all Christians are abusive right after your speech about abuse at the hands of Christians. I'm really sorry you went through that. (Abijah)

[Daffodil]

 

 

 

I'm curious.  Is this a private institution you are attending or is it publicly funded (in any way)?

 

 

It is an entirely publicly funded community college.

In that case, you have rights and need to exercise them.

 

I'm terrified to do so, but my partner said I should as well.

I would kind of hold back and really think about that, first. He didn't grade you down because of your topic, did he? He just didn't "praise you" as strongly as he did the others, if I'm understanding you correctly. What he said about "not all Christians" is annoying and poorly timed, but not something to fight over, unless he really pushed his beliefs on you. If you make a big fuss over people's insensitivity with no outright discrimination (like grading you down specifically for your content over the others), you might face more hostility down the line. It's frustrating, I understand, but is it really a violation of your rights? I'm not so sure.

[Guest]

Daffodil and Lilith666,

 

Thank you for your thoughtful and insightful responses. I understand that there are many ways these events could be interpreted, and i think your ideas are more than logical. What it comes down to, though, is trauma. No matter what happened--what was meant, how I interpreted it--it doesn't change the fact that these events greatly triggered and upset me. I think I just needed the validation that I'm not crazy for being hurt. Thank you, nonetheless, for your thoughtful words.

[Jedah]

 

I realized I'm a huge target for shit like this. It keeps happening; this was just more pronounced. I'm thinking it's because 1) I'm a woman, 2) Religion hurt me so people think I'm just an angry helpless victim rather than that I also studied the Bible and have used science to disprove it, 3) I used to be a Christian. They cant understand how I'd dare forsake the entire faith, 4) that I'm young and impressionable and unwise.

 

I can tell you from experience it's much simpler than this and probably none of those things.

 

What's going on here is that you have given a portion of your ex-testimony in front of a crowd of people who have probably had an easier life than you. Most importantly: this is not something to resent them for. It's not something to be ashamed of either.

 

Christians like to think of their religion as a belief system first, and lifestyle to go with it. But really it's just a lifestyle to most and the beliefs are just fluff that get carried along. For many people, the Christian lifestyle worked for them. They grew up in an environment that did not face them with enough difficulties to question it. So when they see someone like you ( an atheist ) stand up and say that Christianity fucked you over - they get scarred. Because they are not used to having their beliefs questioned, they feel like they are under attack for their beliefs and will feel the need to defend themselves. They also assume that you must be "angry with god" because the only reason they can fathom why they would question their religion is if their life fell apart and they themselves became angry. To put it very simply, what you are experiencing is more or less psychological projection: Christians are projecting their own insecurities about their faith onto atheists whenever that faith gets questioned.

 

When you realize that everyone has lived their own life it's a lot easier to accept that not everyone will understand your own.

 

Also - you mention you are in Oregon. Is that Portland? If you are in Portland I wouldn't worry about it. The Christians here are mostly what I call "Deists in denial". They don't actually care about the magical thinking as much as they claim. They believe in some kind of god and just go with Christianity because it's the closest within reach.

[MOHO]

Jedah,

 

"Christians are projecting their own insecurities about their faith onto atheists whenever that faith gets questioned."

 

NO SH*T!

 

You should have hear my wife go off on me when I came out (the first time). OMG! Only someone who is feeling their very reason for living being questioned and who have their own doubts would have pitched such a wobley.

 

Can't wait to tell her that my going to church again had the same impact as last time - the doctrine did not take!

 

Fuck me!

[Lilith666]

Abijah,

 

Thanks for the acknowledgment. Daffodil and I both said that the professor shouldn't have said that not all Christians are bad, and no one said you were crazy for being upset. But your thread title says you were discriminated against, which isn't equivalent to having your feelings hurt. Did you want validation of your hurt feelings, or were you looking for confirmation that your professor and class actually violated your rights? Just not sure what you wanted to accomplish.

[TerranceG]

Ageism and sexism are some of the last frontiers left under explored. Even though I'm a straight white man from the least diverse state in the union, West Virginia (yes it's a real state and not just the Western part of Virginia...lol), I have put a lot of effort into studying and attempting to understand the factors involved.

 

Yes...you were definitely discriminated against for both being young and female.

 

As an aside...look into the issue of Pseudopigraphon in the New Tesament...I.e. The letters of Paul that (non-fundimentalist) scholars suspect were NOT written by Paul. Yes...that's right...the most sexist parts of the New Testament were NOT even written by an apostle. Paul was anything but sexist.

 

Part of the problem is how our society is set up to socialize girls to feel like they have to be perfect, which limits their choices to safer ones. Boys on the other hand are socialized to take risks and be overly confident in their abilities. See a TED talk by Reshma Saujani...Girls Who Code...one of my feminist heroes.

 

Ageism is something that I feel like I've been fighting all my life. By the time you feel old enough to have anything authoritative to say...the ageism starts to go the other way. I used to be too young to know anything and now I'm too old for anything say to matter to those younger than me. You can't win that fight. Speak your mind with confidence.

[Shinzon]

The part aboit being a new testament guy would have made me reply "oh so you dont believe jesus was the messiah after all your a new testament guy right? No need for more then half the book"