Jump to content
Goodbye Jesus

Does Reading The Bible Get You Into Heaven


quinntar

Recommended Posts

Christians can a book get you into heaven? Tell me what actually gets you into heaven.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Christ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Christ

So no words need be uttered, no prayers need to be made, no songs to be sang, no works to be done.

 

Just the Christ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I once roomed with some Lutherans, and their take on saving faith was that it was there the moment you believed, before any prayer was spoken. Otherwise, it would be an act on your part that contributed to your salvation. They gave the example of the gentiles that Peter spoke to who received the spirit as he preached. No prayer or works, just belief.

 

Not sure what your title meant (although the apostrophe should be removed since you mean a plural, not a possessive). The Baptist church I attended said that the Bible had essentially replaced the active works of God and was now a sealed document, and no more miracles or intervention by God could take place in this dispensation. That always made me laugh. What good is a god who can't or won't do anything? He would be making himself like the dead idols he mocks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I once roomed with some Lutherans, and their take on saving faith was that it was there the moment you believed, before any prayer was spoken. Otherwise, it would be an act on your part that contributed to your salvation. They gave the example of the gentiles that Peter spoke to who received the spirit as he preached. No prayer or works, just belief.

 

Not sure what your title meant (although the apostrophe should be removed since you mean a plural, not a possessive). The Baptist church I attended said that the Bible had essentially replaced the active works of God and was now a sealed document, and no more miracles or intervention by God could take place in this dispensation. That always made me laugh. What good is a god who can't or won't do anything? He would be making himself like the dead idols he mocks.

Yep fixed that, thanks.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

According to John 20 : 24 - 31, those who believe (without evidence) that Jesus Christ rose from death, get into heaven.

 

 

24 Now Thomas, called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. 

25 The other disciples therefore said to him, “We have seen the Lord.”

So he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”

26 And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!” 

27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”

28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.

30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; 

31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

 

 

What isn't clear is what such a believer should do if Jesus' bones were discovered tomorrow.

Having believed in his resurrection without evidence, what should they do if this event is refuted by evidence...?

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

According to John 20 : 24 - 31, those who believe (without evidence) that Jesus Christ rose from death, get into heaven.

 

 

24 Now Thomas, called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. 

25 The other disciples therefore said to him, “We have seen the Lord.”

So he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”

26 And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!” 

27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”

28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.

30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; 

31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

 

 

What isn't clear is what such a believer should do if Jesus' bones were discovered tomorrow.

Having believed in his resurrection without evidence, what should they do if this event is refuted by evidence...?

 

Would you please tell us what you should do with your Christian faith if Jesus' bones were discovered tomorrow, Ironhorse?

 

Thank you.

 

BAA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Christians can a book get you into heaven? Tell me what actually gets you into heaven.

Your imagination because Heaven only exist in the mind of believers, as does Hell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Furball

I thought about this last night and remembered that the bible gives two different answers to this question.

 

1. No reading the bible won't save you. Jesus had said search the scriptures (words) for in them you think you'll have eternal life but the scriptures are they which testify of me. john 5:39-40.

 

2. Yes reading the bible will save you. Receive with meekness the engrafted word (scriptures) which is able to save your souls. james 1:21

 

As usual, the bible speaks out of both sides of it's mouth contradicting itself. 

 

Inspired my ass!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Baptised as an infant so that's my ticket to heaven...thankfully, I was born into the one and only, true and right and correct religion so no need to read the bible...unless you'd like to confuse yourself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought about this last night and remembered that the bible gives two different answers to this question.

 

1. No reading the bible won't save you. Jesus had said search the scriptures (words) for in them you think you'll have eternal life but the scriptures are they which testify of me. john 5:39-40.

 

2. Yes reading the bible will save you. Receive with meekness the engrafted word (scriptures) which is able to save your souls. james 1:21

 

As usual, the bible speaks out of both sides of it's mouth contradicting itself.

 

Inspired my ass!

:D
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Christians can a book get you into heaven? Tell me what actually gets you into heaven.

Your imagination because Heaven only exist in the mind of believers, as does Hell.
Don't nuke our imagination bro!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Baptised as an infant so that's my ticket to heaven...thankfully, I was born into the one and only, true and right and correct religion so no need to read the bible...unless you'd like to confuse yourself.

One day you'll be able to buy tickets to a whole array of dimensions and after life's.

 

"Now bording sending aperture c1 zeta x, Have a nice trip."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My question is: Why would a Creator/Higher Power expect people to believe--to the point where belief is the threshold for being saved vs not saved--literally in a book that says:

 

--The Earth was made prior to the Sun, Moon, stars, etc.

--Two people lived in a perfect garden where they trained all the animals, etc

--This oasis was ruined because they ate a piece of fruit under the manipulation of a talking snake

--Because these 2 people ate the fruit, humanity is cursed with sin forever, and only can be saved from hell if they truly believe that God turned into a human and died for us as a sacrifice to himself from his own need for blood revenge, as outlined in this highly believable book

--Said God turned into a human by magically impregnating a virgin

--At one point, a giant flood covered the entire earth, but one family of 8 built an ark and put 2 of each kind of animal on board to save them all, and rode out the flood for 40 days before repopulating the entire earth

--The reason why we have different languages on Earth, is because once a bunch of guys wanted to build a tower to heaven, but God thought they were getting too uppity, so he smited them all with the curse of talking different languages so they couldn't understand each other in order to sabatoge their project. Before this, everyone on earth spoke the same language, and this event is how languages differentiated. 

--God wanted to punish a city for being corrupt, so he smote them all down except for one family who he told to flee. But the kicker is that, because the wife was curious and looked back, she turned into a pillar of salt! A real literal one!

 

These are supposedly all real, literal things that happened, because they were written in the book that lays out the only way to get into heaven. And if you don't find the above claims credible, and thus don't see a reason to believe in the sacrifice story, then you're going to hell, no matter how good you are of a person.

 

Really?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My question is: Why would a Creator/Higher Power expect people to believe--to the point where belief is the threshold for being saved vs not saved--literally in a book that says:

 

--The Earth was made prior to the Sun, Moon, stars, etc.

--Two people lived in a perfect garden where they trained all the animals, etc

--This oasis was ruined because they ate a piece of fruit under the manipulation of a talking snake

--Because these 2 people ate the fruit, humanity is cursed with sin forever, and only can be saved from hell if they truly believe that God turned into a human and died for us as a sacrifice to himself from his own need for blood revenge, as outlined in this highly believable book

--Said God turned into a human by magically impregnating a virgin

--At one point, a giant flood covered the entire earth, but one family of 8 built an ark and put 2 of each kind of animal on board to save them all, and rode out the flood for 40 days before repopulating the entire earth

--The reason why we have different languages on Earth, is because once a bunch of guys wanted to build a tower to heaven, but God thought they were getting too uppity, so he smited them all with the curse of talking different languages so they couldn't understand each other in order to sabatoge their project. Before this, everyone on earth spoke the same language, and this event is how languages differentiated.

--God wanted to punish a city for being corrupt, so he smote them all down except for one family who he told to flee. But the kicker is that, because the wife was curious and looked back, she turned into a pillar of salt! A real literal one!

 

These are supposedly all real, literal things that happened, because they were written in the book that lays out the only way to get into heaven. And if you don't find the above claims credible, and thus don't see a reason to believe in the sacrifice story, then you're going to hell, no matter how good you are of a person.

 

Really?

Yes really, saith the Lord your God who's really there but using a cloaking shield to mask his awesomeness!
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chillin' out like Harry Potter in his invisibility cloak? yellow.gif

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Chillin' out like Harry Potter in his invisibility cloak? yellow.gif

You'd get into alot of xxx rated movies with that thing.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello again Ironhorse.

 

Re: post # 7, this is a polite reminder of the question I put to you there.

 

Would you please tell us what you should do with your Christian faith if Jesus' bones were discovered tomorrow?

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

According to John 20 : 24 - 31, those who believe (without evidence) that Jesus Christ rose from death, get into heaven.

 

 

24 Now Thomas, called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. 

25 The other disciples therefore said to him, “We have seen the Lord.”

So he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”

26 And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!” 

27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”

28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.

30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; 

31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

 

 

What isn't clear is what such a believer should do if Jesus' bones were discovered tomorrow.

Having believed in his resurrection without evidence, what should they do if this event is refuted by evidence...?

 

Would you please tell us what you should do with your Christian faith if Jesus' bones were discovered tomorrow, Ironhorse?

 

Thank you.

 

BAA.

 

 

 

No doubt some have tried finding Jesus' remains for centuries hoping to disprove the resurrection.

 

What if this actually happened?

 

I would have to denounce the Christian faith and say that Jesus not only told the biggest lie ever told but also the cruelest lie.

 

As Paul expressed in his letter to the Corinthians:

 

If there’s no resurrection, there’s no living Christ. And face it—if there’s no resurrection for Christ, everything we’ve told you is smoke and mirrors, and everything you’ve staked your life on is smoke and mirrors. Not only that, but we would be guilty of telling a string of barefaced lies about God, all these affidavits we passed on to you verifying that God raised up Christ—sheer fabrications, if there’s no resurrection.

 

If corpses can’t be raised, then Christ wasn’t, because he was indeed dead. And if Christ weren’t raised, then all you’re doing is wandering about in the dark, as lost as ever. It’s even worse for those who died hoping in Christ and resurrection, because they’re already in their graves. If all we get out of Christ is a little inspiration for a few short years, we’re a pretty sorry lot.

 

~ 1 Corinthians 15:13-19 (The Message)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

According to John 20 : 24 - 31, those who believe (without evidence) that Jesus Christ rose from death, get into heaven.

 

 

24 Now Thomas, called the Twin, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came. 

25 The other disciples therefore said to him, “We have seen the Lord.”

So he said to them, “Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.”

26 And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, “Peace to you!” 

27 Then He said to Thomas, “Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.”

28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.

30 And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book; 

31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

 

 

What isn't clear is what such a believer should do if Jesus' bones were discovered tomorrow.

Having believed in his resurrection without evidence, what should they do if this event is refuted by evidence...?

 

Would you please tell us what you should do with your Christian faith if Jesus' bones were discovered tomorrow, Ironhorse?

 

Thank you.

 

BAA.

 

 

 

No doubt some have tried finding Jesus' remains for centuries hoping to disprove the resurrection.

 

What if this actually happened?

 

I would have to denounce the Christian faith and say that Jesus not only told the biggest lie ever told but also the cruelest lie.

 

As Paul expressed in his letter to the Corinthians:

 

If there’s no resurrection, there’s no living Christ. And face it—if there’s no resurrection for Christ, everything we’ve told you is smoke and mirrors, and everything you’ve staked your life on is smoke and mirrors. Not only that, but we would be guilty of telling a string of barefaced lies about God, all these affidavits we passed on to you verifying that God raised up Christ—sheer fabrications, if there’s no resurrection.

 

If corpses can’t be raised, then Christ wasn’t, because he was indeed dead. And if Christ weren’t raised, then all you’re doing is wandering about in the dark, as lost as ever. It’s even worse for those who died hoping in Christ and resurrection, because they’re already in their graves. If all we get out of Christ is a little inspiration for a few short years, we’re a pretty sorry lot.

 

~ 1 Corinthians 15:13-19 (The Message)

 

 

Thank you for your honest reply, Ironhorse.

.

.

.

So, perhaps you now need to rephrase the one word answer you gave to the AntiCrash's question?

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/72898-christians-what-would-make-you-leave-your-faith/page-1#.V5qJUvkrJD8

 

Posted 14 June 2016 - 03:35 PM

nothing

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If someone discovered "Jesus's" remains/bones, how would they be able to prove it was his?

 

I'm an agnostic, so I'm not coming at this from a Christian defensive perspective. But I'm sure that would be the main rebuttal argument from the Christian side of things - how would we actually be able to prove/know that they're Jesus's bones, and not another individual being passed off as him?

 

After all, it's not like Jesus is someone walking around right now who we could get a DNA sample from to compare the remains to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If someone discovered "Jesus's" remains/bones, how would they be able to prove it was his?

 

I'm an agnostic, so I'm not coming at this from a Christian defensive perspective. But I'm sure that would be the main rebuttal argument from the Christian side of things - how would we actually be able to prove/know that they're Jesus's bones, and not another individual being passed off as him?

 

After all, it's not like Jesus is someone walking around right now who we could get a DNA sample from to compare the remains to.

 

Good question, Lyra.

 

But the issue of proof is irrelevant to Ironhorse if he really meant that... nothing ...would cause him to give up his Christian faith.

 

In his reply to me he wrote about the discovery of Jesus' bones and asked, "What if this actually happened?"

 

His response to the question was that he would have to give up his Christian faith.

 

But If he really meant...nothing ...then even the discovery of Jesus' bones SHOULD NOT cause him to give up his Christian faith.

 

Nothing means nothing.

.

.

.

So, he's contradicted himself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If someone discovered "Jesus's" remains/bones, how would they be able to prove it was his?

 

I'm an agnostic, so I'm not coming at this from a Christian defensive perspective. But I'm sure that would be the main rebuttal argument from the Christian side of things - how would we actually be able to prove/know that they're Jesus's bones, and not another individual being passed off as him?

 

After all, it's not like Jesus is someone walking around right now who we could get a DNA sample from to compare the remains to.

Supposedly Jesus went up into the clouds body and soul, so what we need is some crack theorticians who can devise a theory on interspiritual travel. Then a team of scientists to work on testing and developing the theory and technology, as for test subjects (I say we send monkeys to heaven first)

 

Then once the testing phase is complete and safe for travel, I say we set up a specialized task force

 

ISG1

 

To extract Jesus of Nazareth, and bring him back for questioning.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

If someone discovered "Jesus's" remains/bones, how would they be able to prove it was his?

 

I'm an agnostic, so I'm not coming at this from a Christian defensive perspective. But I'm sure that would be the main rebuttal argument from the Christian side of things - how would we actually be able to prove/know that they're Jesus's bones, and not another individual being passed off as him?

 

After all, it's not like Jesus is someone walking around right now who we could get a DNA sample from to compare the remains to.

 

Good question, Lyra.

 

But the issue of proof is irrelevant to Ironhorse if he really meant that... nothing ...would cause him to give up his Christian faith.

 

In his reply to me he wrote about the discovery of Jesus' bones and asked, "What if this actually happened?"

 

His response to the question was that he would have to give up his Christian faith.

 

But If he really meant...nothing ...then even the discovery of Jesus' bones SHOULD NOT cause him to give up his Christian faith.

 

Nothing means nothing.

.

.

.

So, he's contradicted himself.

 

 

It's very odd to me that someone who claims "nothing" would make him change his mind on his faith, would then give up said faith due to bones being found  that were claimed to be Jesus's. I mean, if I were a devout Christian, the "how do you know they're really his bones" thing would be the first defense I would go to. 

 

It's like the faith is very stubborn yet also very fickle at the same time?

 

I mean no insult or disrespect to Ironhorse in any way. It just seems like such a contradiction. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.