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Goodbye Jesus

Non-Religious Cults – Radical Gender Movement And New Feminism


sorenG

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I find it very interesting that practically everyone here seemed to buy into OP's story with not as much as a grain of salt. Doesn't it seem a bit too convenient, tie in a little too nicely to hot topics around here that people just love to get into a frenzy over, especially from a brand new user?

 

For all the talk of "nonreligious cults" and complaints of people who seem to want to be victimized, I'm seeing some interesting behavior.

This confuses me. Don't we all do that on almost all the threads? There's no way for us to verify any story on this site. We could all be lying all the time and no one would know. What's your point?

 

 

Yes, but this particular topic mix is what I find eyebrow-raising. "Socialist" nation? Check. Ultra leftist stereotypes in real life? Check. Dem man-hatin feminists? Check. White man guilt? Check. All in one nice bundle. All common topics/pet peeves that have been recently posted around here. It honestly sounds to me like a user story you'd see posted on Breitbart. 

 

No, I don't argue that there isn't a segment of the left in the US that is truly regressive (think the "islamophobia!!!" types) and that is a problem. But don't mind me, just exercising my old atheistic skeptic muscle. 

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So Silent drops in to imply it's all a lie. Of course. In her 3rd waver world, 3rd waver claims are always true, any opposition to them is always a lie and sexist.

 

If a 3rd wave moron says you're wrong it's a pretty strong indicator that you're right.

 

And no I won't have any mercy with them. They begged me so long to treat them with contempt, with their personal insults and such, that I now gladly give them what they have been longing for firedevil.gif

 

Sorry, forgot to include a trigger warning for you. I know my posts scare you, so you must always resort to the usual ad hominems. 

 

Who knew skepticism was a trademark of the dreaded third wave feminists? GONZ9729CustomImage1539775.gif Guess that spells trouble for you so called freethinkers, lol.

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I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier, but as it fits well into the (sad and sick) topic of this thread... and as Athena has poked me a bit about it blink.png ... I'd like to remind everyone in here of her great blog about the failings of contemporary "3rd wave feminism" firedevil.gif

 

Linky

Thanks for this. I have refused to call myself a feminist because of the 3rd Wavers, but after perusing that site, I can safely call myself a 4th Wave feminist. This quote from a commenter on the site was amazing:

 

"the real issues feminism was created to fight are no longer on our shores. The big causes are over seas in these third world countries, but they don’t seem to be interested in that. They are interested in what small thing that shove sand up their crack on the internet. Third wave is the lazy woman’s kind of feminism because it requires no real work, but can give them the same sense of righteousness as if they fought against Goliath and won."

 

 

I wonder how long it'll take for 4th wave feminists to offend types like Thurisaz though, lol. I've never perceived feminism in terms of the "waves," its been a constant movement that has adapted to address issues of the time in my book. Can you really say that sexism and discrimination no longer issues on our shores? I don't see that the argument that because things are worse somewhere else doesn't mean things can't be improved where you are.

 

What I realized the other day is you could easily say the same about atheism. Is the big cause for atheism not overseas as well, where atheists end up chopped up in the streets or can be imprisoned for their nonbelief? Are modern day atheists interested in that? Does it require real work to make online posts about religion or make a youtube video? Is it not silly to worry about prayer in a council meeting or words in a pledge when the "real" overseas issues are happening?

 

Not to mention how I've seen a lot of people refuse to call themselves "atheist" because for many people it is a loaded term with a bad connotation. I've literally heard: "I don't believe in god, but I'm not an atheist." Another person told me her parents told her that it was "okay if she didn't believe in god, but she better not be an atheist." Doesn't being an atheist simply mean a lack of belief in a deity? Last time I checked, yes it was. But see the similarities here? 

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I think Søren's story sounds very plausible. I know it may sound unlikely to you but the situation he's describing is not all too uncommon here.

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It's possible that Soren and Bhim and others here are lying, but it's also possible that SJW PoC and women are lying when they talk about their experiences. Do we consider all personal stories, or don't we?

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Of course all these recent postings are Proof™ to the 3rd wavers that only their own small select group has The Truth™ and the world needs to learn about their lord and savior "feminism". The parallels are striking no?

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[...]

What I realized the other day is you could easily say the same about atheism. Is the big cause for atheism not overseas as well, where atheists end up chopped up in the streets or can be imprisoned for their nonbelief? Are modern day atheists interested in that? [...]

Atheists don't look at what's happening to atheists in middle east while claiming that it is actually the West which hates atheists and respond with tantrums when facts are pointed out regarding the Middle East. There are also not atheists claiming that Muslims are actually very tolerant of lack of belief.
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It's possible that Soren and Bhim and others here are lying, but it's also possible that SJW PoC and women are lying when they talk about their experiences. Do we consider all personal stories, or don't we?

 What is PoC? 

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It's possible that Soren and Bhim and others here are lying, but it's also possible that SJW PoC and women are lying when they talk about their experiences. Do we consider all personal stories, or don't we?

 

 What is PoC?

People of color.

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sorenG,

 

Welcome to ExC and posting publicly.

 

Thanks for affording a view into your life and family; dealing with mind poisons that have taken hold into your daughters thoughts.

Let me save a ton of typing to say this simply, stiffen up your Father Spine and say "...NO!"   (OK, I'm a Dad, that works-ed) like umm, not often  :) )
At some time when your little Femmiebot needs a good lesson in Life, shown out front door with enough cash for a few months living cheaply away from home, no amenities paid by you or the wife, let her go make ALL her own decisions. 
Have found when mouthy kid gets the life lessons of having to pay rent OR buy food this week their desires to "...be on their own.. be my own BOSS!" starts to wither.

 

Again welcome, good to hear another Dad's voice speak up.

 

kevinL
 

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Thanks Skip,

 

The NO! would not Work. In Denmark studends gets loans and grants, and are not dependent of their parents. And on another note, my wife thinks it is a parents duty to give the children full support in anything they do. To put my foot down is out of question. I am a coward...

 

And she is not hostile in any way, and accepts that I do not use her new name and still call her - yes "her". She thinks that  my "hidden homophobia/rascism/misogeny" is because I am a man, and therefore cannot know better..

 

She has just become very distant, and rather condencending, which breaks my heart. She used to confide in me.

 

She is very intelligent and empatic. I have an idea that this makes her very vulnerable to this kind of thinking. But I still think she eventully will come out of it.

 

SorenG

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And she is not hostile in any way, and accepts that I do not use her new name and still call her - yes "her". She thinks that my "hidden homophobia/rascism/misogeny" is because I am a man, and therefore cannot know better..

I'm laughing aloud already. That's just too stereotypical. I can see why SL suspects your story is made up. Nobody is supposed to take the crazy feminism stuff that seriously (isn't that right SL?), and I don't think many are.

She's got to be just testing how far she is able to take it.

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...Nobody is supposed to take the crazy feminism stuff that seriously (isn't that right SL?)...

...except for us menpigs, looking at how the likes of SL act - offer the slightest disagreement to them and you're clobbered to death with the Sexism Club™. No matter how well-supported our own evidence is and such.

 

And there they wonder why the very term "feminim" becomes more hated every fucking day... yeah if only there was an explanation for that...

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And she is not hostile in any way, and accepts that I do not use her new name and still call her - yes "her". She thinks that my "hidden homophobia/rascism/misogeny" is because I am a man, and therefore cannot know better..

I'm laughing aloud already. That's just too stereotypical. I can see why SL suspects your story is made up. Nobody is supposed to take the crazy feminism stuff that seriously (isn't that right SL?), and I don't think many are.She's got to be just testing how far she is able to take it.

Really? Søren's story is far from unique. That "crazy" stuff is widespread here in Scandinavia, especially in Sweden, where his daughter is studying.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hmm, I skimmed through all the posts...

Am I the only one asking, "Why on earth would a smart girl major in that?" I have a liberal arts degree myself, which I completed right after 9-11, which is totally useless out in the real world as far as earning a living are concerned. No, I didn't major in women's studies--If I were her, I'd make sure I'd be spending my effort on a major that would ultimately lead her to a more lucrative job.

Hopefully the more regular classes she is exposed to, the more her perspective will expand?

I'm also asking myself if she had some really bad experiences with men on campus in the US... Sometimes there are weird fetishes for say, girls from Denmark/Sweden/Norway among American men--- I wouldn't be shocked if she's had some bad encounters over here.

I'm wondering as well if she's being influenced by a manipulative professor, a pushy sorority, or is questioning her sexuality and is trying to communicate it in a non-direct way.

It wouldn't surprise me if she felt really alone being a "foreigner" out here, and was trying to fit into a group on campus just to feel a "sense of belonging". There are probably some people on campus who resent her, thinking to themselves, "oh, this foreign girl got a scholarship and I have 50,000 grand in student loan debt!". People who feel isolated and lonely are more likely to join a cult or cult-like groups.

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Nah, many young Swedes (of both sexes) are ideologically drawn to this kind of crap and I assume the Danes are very much the same. His daughter is studying in Malmö, Scania (a formerly Danish province btw) which is just across thé straits and connected to Copenhagen by a bridge so it's practically a trans-national region.

 

You're theories are interesting but I think it's mostly a case of certain stratas of our society being predisposed to these kind of ideas.

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I am gay.  I am also a white male.

 

I personally don't feel like a victim, and I actually find it somewhat offensive when someone insists I am a victim just because I am gay (oh no, i've been offended I better run to my safe space!!11!1).  That's not to say I haven't had to deal with my fair share of bullshit over my life (who hasn't), but I just deal with it as best as I can and move on.

 

The other thing I have to say about this topic is that most of the bullshit i've had to deal with in my life has not been at the hands of heterosexual white males.  In fact most of my best friends in life have been heterosexual white males.  I also think that heterosexual white males are unfairly painted with a very broad brush.

 

In my opinion (which is based on my experience as a gay person), most LGBT oppression can be directly blamed on religious males (white or not), who believe 3000 year old bronze age mythology which states that homosexuals are an abomination to god/allah/jesus/mohammad/abraham/paul whoever, and should be murdered wherever we find them.  This oppression extends to women, who are viewed as property like cattle.  THAT is why I have no problem calling a spade a spade when it comes to who the real oppressors are here. 

 

Christianity and Islam and the males who believe their holy books are the problem, not heterosexual white males.

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RE: religious oppression: "This oppression extends to women, who are viewed as property like cattle."

That belief is very prominent, sadly, outside religious spheres. You probably know that already.

One example-- many nationalist movements, for one reason or the other, view women as non-people. I used to believe it was religious thought (translated into law) that made it impossible for say, my great grandmother, to be able to vote or own property. When I learned more about white nationalists (I'm aware that there are other versions of it) I realized that it's common for non-Christians in that political sphere to view me as a stupid brood mare (albeit inferior, because my eyes aren't blue), a potential "race-traitor", a threat to the rightful power of men. In this way, WN and the radical religious right have a common ground of which they agree en masse.

I don't place the blame on men, however. I think for the OPs daughter to have a strong hatred towards all men is misguided. As I get older, I realized it's those at the very top of the food change who pull the strings. For example, I go to the gym, and see women with surgically-altered faces and long acrylic nails bragging about how their husbands take them on long vacations, etc. They don't have to work. Those women have more power and privilege than any man who shares my socioeconomic bracket. Cross one of these women or their husbands seriously in any way, and prepare to have your life gutted by lawsuits or to have your character assassinated at least. My lifetime will never see retirement, a pension, let alone any long vacations. My son will never see these things either. Contagious ignorance helps keep people divided into a never ending "us vs them" and keeps those at the top with all the power and control. Religion used to be the primary way of keeping this in place, but now political thought has replaced religion. 

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Contagious ignorance helps keep people divided into a never ending "us vs them" and keeps those at the top with all the power and control. Religion used to be the primary way of keeping this in place, but now political thought has replaced religion.

 

Yup that is the supreme tragic of it all. All this artificial conflict usually created by the 1 % and their bought media lapdogs, which is really made only to protect their obscene wealth. I'm not sure how much of this insane 3rd wave "feminism" is made the same way but it doesn't matter for the actual situation. If the "feminists" do it out of their own "free" will it becomes all the more tragic as it would then make them unwitting but willing allies of the power structure.

 

What they should really fight for (along with everyone else) is crack and shatter the power structure that keeps us all enslaved. But to them, when they see a woman who's not in full control of her destiny, they "know exactly" it's because of men and that men have it so so soooo much better. Even when pretty much every dude around her is in exactly the same mess. It's a level of reality denial that, as I see it, cannot be a natural "gift". That has to be trained for years.

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Some of the knee-jerk angst towards any kind of feminism/women incited by media, in particular online media, is probably making MRAs unwitting pawns of the very same power structure. Works both ways I imagine, pitting people within the same economic class against their own kind. How can any family or cultural group survive if one half is in a constant state of resentment and fear towards the other? It can't survive for long. We as "the serfs" will never overcome the obstacles we face as a solid block politically against the people who literally own us while we bicker over "who has it worse".

The OPs daughter, for example, will have some major difficulties in her life if she ever gives birth to a boy. She'll have some soul searching to do. Being virulently hateful towards men would be akin to busting her own son in the kneecaps. Supporting an ideology that is punitive towards her father or other men in her family ultimately harms herself (and vis versa). Having a son myself, I feel as if punishing one gender for the other's problems is self-defeating in the long run, and I don't just mean emotionally.

If I were living in Victorian England, we'd both be living on the streets, or in a workhouse. As my child, my son would be punished by society due to the punitive laws directed at my gender and status as an unmarried mother. He would be denied the right to ask his father for any financial assistance, I would not be allowed to file for any child support. I would not be legally allowed to own property as a woman, and would therefor not be able to give my son any inheritance if I had any. As a male, my son would be suffering from a legal system designed to punish me, as a female.

On the other side, let's imagine we lived in a place where divorce and custody cases were punitive towards men. In my geographical area, some states/counties are more notorious than others. If my son were a grown adult today, and had his paycheck completely gutted by a vengeful ex-spouse through a custody/divorce suit, he'd probably be completely dependent on me financially. I'd be working well into my 80s just to make ends meet for myself and my son. If I were to become invalid as an old woman, my son would not be able to help me. As a woman, I'd be suffering from a legal system that punishes him, as a male. 

I suppose there are people out there who live in bubbles, but most people are born and die in the care of a family member to some degree.

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As I am the OP i can correct some misunderstandings.

 

She is not hating men, nor has she been lonely or have bad experiences with men. But she has become condensending. She is very intelligent and had great empathy for the abused, the down-trodden, the poor. What has happened is that she has been manupulated to see herself as a member of "the real victim group", the white women. It is political, as RJN correctly says and this is rampart in our little part of the world.

 

Her passion for helping homeless, refugees etc. has gone completely, as the only real victims is women and persons with an alternative gender. She has begun to question her own gender, but I have a suspicion that it is because it is a no-no in her circles to be a heterosexual. Even gay has become old hat in our country, and is expanding in a variety of subgenders.

 

She will like to have a child, whatever the born sex of that child. But he/she will be brought up strictly gender-neutral, and with a gender-neutral name.

 

But my main concern is not the above, but that her views and ideas must not bed challenged. If I or other do that it is an attack, ant she gets in the victim-mode. That is cultish, and is what really freaks me out.

 

But as I have said, I am still optimistic, I think she is too clever for that shit in the long run. But I was worried and really needed to vent. In January she will be back from South Africa, and I hope she will have some perspective.

 

After all, I belonged to the left-wing movement in the 1970-ies.... But I dont remember, that we took disagreement as attacks, nor ever played the victim-card.

 

SorenG

 

SorenG

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That does sound really bizarre and concerning... Maybe I'm just ignorant of what's going on there in Denmark. I'm hoping for your sake that she has just taken her education a little too seriously, and is in an idealistic phase. Don't feel that your political stance somehow caused this, though-- both of my parents were generally left-of-center white we were growing up and some of their kids turned out to be hard-right. At least "angry lesbians" aren't normally associated with acts of terroristic violence. Most women who martyr themselves to make a political point are religious extremists. 

I'm hoping life experience will teach her that woman aren't always necessarily saints, and that gender alone doesn't define a person as "good" or "bad". Children tend to gravitate towards what they're interested in-- my son could make fake guns out of anything. 

Personally, I've known more than a few women (who happened to be lesbian) who were very emotionally abusive to their partners. I'm talking mind games, constant texting, controlling, emotional manipulation, extreme jealousy., domineering in an extremely motherly way. I'm wondering if she has a very strong minded older girlfriend who is manipulating her, or wants to separate her from her family. One of the common tactics of abusive lovers is to cut their partner off from his/her family.

I've also had extremely ugly experiences with my older "good Catholic" sisters surrounding the death of a parent. Let me put it to you this way: I trust my ex-boyfriend more than I trust either one of my sisters. 

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I am gay.  I am also a white male.

 

Heh, I have some old friends from college (whose musings I still see on Facebook) who would say that you are guilty of something called "intersectional oppression" if you so much as comment on women's or colored people's issues.

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Ah yes; "feminism" again and again turns out to be an airtight ideology. For literally everything they have a premade (and bullshitty, but they don't care about that) explanation/copout that keeps their dogma unharmed.

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