How Would You Feel About Providing Professional Services To A Church?

[LongWayAround]

I am in a business that provides professional services to many different kinds of clients including churches.  The percentage of our work that is with churches is probably around 5 to 10% per year but varies.  Since I have deconverted, I have not been approached by a church to provide services until this past week and I passed the project off to one of my business associates.  

 

On the one hand, I have no problem taking their money and providing a good service.  On the other hand, I don't want to help them to indoctrinate kids or attract more people to their building.

 

In the past, it has not been unusual for a church client to ask what denomination I belong to before hiring me, but the religious questioning has never gone past that.  Some denominations would not hire me because I was the wrong denomination; others didn't care.  It has been awkward in the past when I was a protestant, to do work for catholic churches when they knew I was not a catholic.  They would start the meetings with a memorized prayer and it was obvious when I didn't know the words that I wasn't catholic.  I imagine it could be substantially more awkward if word ever got out that the church was getting services from an atheist.  Beyond the awkwardness, I think it is entirely possible that I could get fired from a job if the church found out midway through a project that I was not a believer.

 

Would you work for a church?

[florduh]

I have even done jobs for the Church of Scientology. Work is work, money is money, and all these organizations will just hire someone else should I refuse.

[midniterider]

Are you the business owner? If so, decline the church work if it's too bothersome.

 

If not, just go with the flow. You can't be expected to be a member of every religious sect out there. But hey, whatever brings in the money is whatever religion I would 'temporarily be' for that client.

 

Dont lie about your denomination if you can't back it up. Pick something you know. I could say I'm Pentecostal cuz I have experience being one. I dont know shit about Catholics so I couldn't pretend to be that. If they dont like your pretend denomination, bubye!

 

Would I work for a church? I might do some short term work or recurring work, I suppose, but no full time long term gig at a church. As far as them indoctrinating our children....one of mine is Christian, the other isn't. I'm done raising them. The rest of the world's children are on their own. Can't worry about everyone.

[GirlOnFire]

I guess it would depend on the type of work.  

 

As for me, I teach, and I could never teach at a Christian/religious school -- I would disagree with them at every twist and turn, and we'd all be miserable.  It just wouldn't be worth it.  

 

But if you're some kind of independent contractor (builder, electrician, IT consultant, etc.), then I don't honestly think it would matter.  I think I would just take a "don't ask, don't tell" approach, unless they ask you point blank, at which point I'd say something vague like, "I'm not terribly religious," and let them decide what they want to do with that information.  If they still want to hire you, awesome.  If not, their loss, for being petty and ridiculous.  Your religion (or lack thereof) has nothing whatsoever to do with the type of work you can and will put forth.  It's irrelevant, really.  But if they want to make a non-issue into a make-it-or-break-it, that's their prerogative, I guess.  At that point, I'd just let that job go and move on to the next.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I'm a scientist... this issue has never even come up in my line of work.

[LongWayAround]

Are you the business owner?

 

Dont lie about your denomination if you can't back it up. 

I am one of several partners in the business.  The other partners are catholic, methodist, and non-practicing baptist.  I haven't told them about my deconversion because it quite frankly doesn't affect our work or our relationship except for this one issue.  I am not sure how they would react.

 

I won't lie about being religious or about what denominational flavor I am or was.  Its not worth it to me.

 

Having done work for many different denominations and religions in the past has been beneficial in that I know more about their beliefs and practices than the average person.  It comes in handy sometimes when debating christians.

[LongWayAround]

I guess it would depend on the type of work.  

 

Our firm provides building design.  The majority of the congregations we serve feel that it is important that you are the same religion (and denomination) as them and that you understand their beliefs and can design a building that supports their style of worship.  As a side note, church groups are probably one of the worst groups to work for.  You generally have to deal with a large committee rather than a single point of contact and the people get so emotional during the process that sometimes it isn't worth it.

[older]

  As a side note, church groups are probably one of the worst groups to work for.  You generally have to deal with a large committee rather than a single point of contact and the people get so emotional during the process that sometimes it isn't worth it.

 

 

One of the things I had to learn was when to turn down a job. Sometimes your sixth sense tells you it could be problematic, so you either charge enough to cover the pain and suffering or just pass altogether. Red flags include folks who want you to submit something on spec, or try to talk you down too far on the price, or who seem to be too quick to get to the question of the prices or fees.

[Geezer]

The issues I had with doing business with a church

 

1. A member of their church, or a friend of their's, probably provided the same service. The church allowed me to provide a proposal just to compare with the church members proposal. If I had a better proposal they would use that to get their members proposal lower.

2. Churches expect large discounts and/or they expect the service for free & suggest the businessman write it off as a donation.

 

I did very little business with churches.

[GirlOnFire]

 

I guess it would depend on the type of work.  

 

Our firm provides building design.  The majority of the congregations we serve feel that it is important that you are the same religion (and denomination) as them and that you understand their beliefs and can design a building that supports their style of worship.  As a side note, church groups are probably one of the worst groups to work for.  You generally have to deal with a large committee rather than a single point of contact and the people get so emotional during the process that sometimes it isn't worth it.

 

 

Hmm...  That does make it trickier, for sure.  (Though, I'm not terribly familiar from a first-hand place with your line of work), I think maybe I would have them tell you their ideas for design/what they'd like to see up front and/or give them a few ideas to choose from, and if religious sect/affiliation comes into play tell them you're not too familiar with their denomination because you're not very religious (again, leaving it vague), but that you aim to provide the best service to them based on your experience.  I mean, I get why they'd want to bring their particular "brand" into the conversation/design, but I still think that is irrelevant to whether or not you are capable of producing a design to their liking.  Your expertise and firm's history should speak for itself.  So again, if they choose not to go with your company, their loss for making it more about the little, personal details about your beliefs, and less about your ability to produce what they want. 

[disillusioned]

I teach high school science and math. I could do that in a church, but they might find hiring me counterproductive.

 

If the money's good, and you're not required to do anything that specifically violates your conscience, do the job.

[Voice]

I am in a business that provides professional services to many different kinds of clients including churches.  The percentage of our work that is with churches is probably around 5 to 10% per year but varies.  Since I have deconverted, I have not been approached by a church to provide services until this past week and I passed the project off to one of my business associates.  

 

On the one hand, I have no problem taking their money and providing a good service.  On the other hand, I don't want to help them to indoctrinate kids or attract more people to their building.

 

In the past, it has not been unusual for a church client to ask what denomination I belong to before hiring me, but the religious questioning has never gone past that.  Some denominations would not hire me because I was the wrong denomination; others didn't care.  It has been awkward in the past when I was a protestant, to do work for catholic churches when they knew I was not a catholic.  They would start the meetings with a memorized prayer and it was obvious when I didn't know the words that I wasn't catholic.  I imagine it could be substantially more awkward if word ever got out that the church was getting services from an atheist.  Beyond the awkwardness, I think it is entirely possible that I could get fired from a job if the church found out midway through a project that I was not a believer.

 

Would you work for a church?

 

I've done work for a church, and I bid work at a catholic church. Only reason I didn't get the catholic church job was I bid it way too low, like 1500 when it should have been 5K plus. I suck at bidding.

I did work on a church for a couple of weeks or less near St. Paul MN. The contractor was himself a somewhat fanatical christian, outspoken about his disposition. Thing is, he'd seen my work, he knew I was good, and more, the question of my beliefs never came up. He didn't ask and I didn't tell. It was a successful job, drywall finishing starting at the main entry inward, hallways, doing patches and repairs up where everyone stares during service. I gave it my best work. Would do it again any day.

 

Remember, churches are a business, tax free as it is, but still a business. I'm all for taking their money if they're willing to pay for a professional service, especially if they call you or request it of you. Jump on it! Abandon guilt, offer no discounts. Make a healthy, comfortable living. Make it about your work, not about your beliefs. Be honest in your dealings.

 

I did meet a contractor who lost his business working for a church in WA, Olympic Peninsula. The priest/pastor took advantage of a mistake in his bid and refused to pay for most of the job. The contractor lost tens of thousands of dollars for unpaid work. I didn't have that problem. Be ware. Sign concise contracts and get your numbers right.

[older]

[snip]

 

I did meet a contractor who lost his business working for a church in WA, Olympic Peninsula. The priest/pastor took advantage of a mistake in his bid and refused to pay for most of the job. The contractor lost tens of thousands of dollars for unpaid work. I didn't have that problem. Be ware. Sign concise contracts and get your numbers right.

 

 

Which brings up a divergent comment: Hire an attorney who has experience in contract law to make up your contract forms, and be sure everything is in writing in advance. Fill out the forms and don't leave blank spaces. Don't use d.i.y forms or stuff from the net as contract law can vary from state to state. Pay the money as insurance against future problems.

[Ellinas]

I would not work for anyone who would only trust me if I was of the same religion as them.  I would otherwise be inviting disputes and possibly litigation.

 

I would not work for anyone who required me to do a job that involved preaching or supporting a specific doctrine.

 

If I was offered work by a church that did not offend the points above, I'd do it if they paid enough.  After all, if they pay me the money they are not giving it to missionaries and evangelists.

[quinntar]

I am in a business that provides professional services to many different kinds of clients including churches. The percentage of our work that is with churches is probably around 5 to 10% per year but varies. Since I have deconverted, I have not been approached by a church to provide services until this past week and I passed the project off to one of my business associates.

 

On the one hand, I have no problem taking their money and providing a good service. On the other hand, I don't want to help them to indoctrinate kids or attract more people to their building.

 

In the past, it has not been unusual for a church client to ask what denomination I belong to before hiring me, but the religious questioning has never gone past that. Some denominations would not hire me because I was the wrong denomination; others didn't care. It has been awkward in the past when I was a protestant, to do work for catholic churches when they knew I was not a catholic. They would start the meetings with a memorized prayer and it was obvious when I didn't know the words that I wasn't catholic. I imagine it could be substantially more awkward if word ever got out that the church was getting services from an atheist. Beyond the awkwardness, I think it is entirely possible that I could get fired from a job if the church found out midway through a project that I was not a believer.

 

Would you work for a church?

Probably not, but you never know.