Moxie Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 My brother is a former pastor, and has identified as an atheist for several years. He takes every opportunity he can to denounce other people's belief in God, and make it known to people in public that he is an atheist. He lives alone, does not want friends, and has been reading a lot from Nietzsche, and he says he is in a better state of mind when he is reading Nietzsche. He says theists need to be slowed down. I'm not sure what he means by that. All I know is that his disgust for all things religious has brought him to the point where he talks about suicide and even applauds the guy who shot and killed five police officers in Dallas. It only appears to me that his atheism has either transformed him into a nihilistic hatemonger, or brought out what was already inside him. In his nihilism (or just plain hatred), he said he wants more police officers killed. Listening to my brother makes me wonder if it's not so bad to return to religious belief. Many times I wonder if his words actually prove that a Creator exists. I mean, why be so focused on something that does not exist, if indeed it does not exist? Why won't he live and let live? He is acting like a child who can't stop talking about the cookies they did not take from the jar. Also, when I told my brother that I responded with a "no" when someone asked me if I was a Christian, he was very happy about that, but the spirit behind his response was more like that of someone trying to control what other people believe. It's hard for me to explain how the conversation was. So with that said, I have begun to reevaluate my own reasons for choosing not to be a Christian. If this is what atheism does to a person, I want none of it. That is where I am right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted July 15, 2016 Super Moderator Share Posted July 15, 2016 If this is what atheism does to a person,... There are millions of atheists in this world who are NOT like your brother - and hundreds, if not thousands, of us right here on this website. Your brother sounds like a sociopath (sorry), so holding him up as a prime example of an atheist is simply not accurate. Also, as far as "choosing not to be a Christian", for me it was not really a choice, but a conclusion. Likewise, just because there are "good" christians, doesn't mean I could ever overlook all the fallacies of the belief system itself and return to it. I'm sure this is a tough time for you. It has to be horrible to hear a loved one say they applaud a murderer. If we can help, we're here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 Thanks buffetphan. So my thought now is that maybe sociopaths tend to be extremists, whether they are atheists or religious. I have concluded that I cannot be an atheist, and I don't believe everything taught from Christianity either. Right now I simply want to take the good and healthy parts from every religion, and privately practice a form of spirituality with which I resonate. That to me is earth-based spirituality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted July 15, 2016 Super Moderator Share Posted July 15, 2016 Your brother is a sociopath. That aside, the religion in question either has evidence it is true or it doesn't. How people behave while holding that belief or while not holding that belief has nothing to do with the validity of the belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ Fuego ♦ Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Was he the same way when he was a pastor? I found quite a few pastors that were control freaks. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted July 15, 2016 Author Share Posted July 15, 2016 Was he the same way when he was a pastor? I found quite a few pastors that were control freaks. From what I heard from his daughters, he was very controlling and physically abusive to their mom. I'm not sure how he was as a pastor because he lived in another part of the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted July 15, 2016 Super Moderator Share Posted July 15, 2016 Does he have a plan for controlling society once all the cops are dead? I ask because how well-thought-out his answer is, would give some indication of how close to the edge he is. As for your own beliefs, you should base them on your own experience, morality, perception, etc. Not on someone else's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted July 15, 2016 Share Posted July 15, 2016 Your brother aside what is your take on xianity? I mean it would seem odd to go that route out of spite or something of that sort (ie. to just not be like your brother). And I'm not talking about the broad strokes xianity of doing nice things or whatever candy coated version you might know but the real down and dirty in the bible version where you believe there was a god-man born to a virgin and that whole spiel that ultimately comes down to god killing off most everyone for not thinking (aka. believing) the right things. If you believe all that then there's no sense hiding the fact you're probably xian. Otherwise, if you just can't accept it, then you're not. If you believe there's probably some sort of god then you're probably an agnostic theist or something like that. If not then you're probably atheist. All this depends on you and not your brother. Who cares what he is. mwc 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted July 16, 2016 Moderator Share Posted July 16, 2016 My brother is a former pastor, and has identified as an atheist for several years. He takes every opportunity he can to denounce other people's belief in God, and make it known to people in public that he is an atheist. He lives alone, does not want friends, and has been reading a lot from Nietzsche, and he says he is in a better state of mind when he is reading Nietzsche. He says theists need to be slowed down. I'm not sure what he means by that. All I know is that his disgust for all things religious has brought him to the point where he talks about suicide and even applauds the guy who shot and killed five police officers in Dallas. It only appears to me that his atheism has either transformed him into a nihilistic hatemonger, or brought out what was already inside him. In his nihilism (or just plain hatred), he said he wants more police officers killed. Listening to my brother makes me wonder if it's not so bad to return to religious belief. Many times I wonder if his words actually prove that a Creator exists. I mean, why be so focused on something that does not exist, if indeed it does not exist? Why won't he live and let live? He is acting like a child who can't stop talking about the cookies they did not take from the jar. Also, when I told my brother that I responded with a "no" when someone asked me if I was a Christian, he was very happy about that, but the spirit behind his response was more like that of someone trying to control what other people believe. It's hard for me to explain how the conversation was. So with that said, I have begun to reevaluate my own reasons for choosing not to be a Christian. If this is what atheism does to a person, I want none of it. That is where I am right now. I L, I just want to give you a big hug. I had 2 sociopaths in my life.....stepfather and ex-husband and I tell you they are scary people. Control freaks, break all the rules, everyone's an asshole, nobody can drive right, if they ruled the world it would be a better place and on and on and on..... I hope he doesn't belong in this category because you'll spend your life walking on egg shells to please him. You can still be a real good person as a non-believer or agnostic. Likely when he was going to church, it helped keep his personality in check. You don't need that. You have a good conscience. Don't allow his anger to direct your path. Find a good loving path to go on and you don't need church for that. Best wished hon. Keep us posted. (hug) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deidre Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 I was an ex-Christian, then an atheist..then went back to Christianity last year. All I can say, is follow your heart...and follow YOUR OWN journey. No one can do that for you, and no should. ((hugs)) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted July 16, 2016 Author Share Posted July 16, 2016 Thanks for your replies. I had another chat with my brother, and he now says that cops are necessary for our safety. He talked rather sensibly today. My own journey has brought me to paganism and wicca. I do believe there is a Creator. This is what I come back to time and time again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daffodil Posted July 16, 2016 Share Posted July 16, 2016 Thanks for your replies. I had another chat with my brother, and he now says that cops are necessary for our safety. He talked rather sensibly today. My own journey has brought me to paganism and wicca. I do believe there is a Creator. This is what I come back to time and time again. Well that seems sudden! Is it possible that your brother is bipolar? Severe mood swings, thinking about suicide . . . I agree with the others. Don't base your beliefs on others. There are "good" and "bad" atheists as well as Christians. It comes down to different personalities. You sound like a very soft- and big-hearted person. That's beautiful! Go with that! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dichotomy Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 I wouldn't allow what your brother thinks, says or does to influence or determine your own thoughts, beliefs or actions in any way. He is himself, you are you. And whilst it is impossible to detach ourselves from those around us, using one person as a reason to decide *anything* is rather pointless. I'm not sure why people are saying he's a sociopath from what you've said, unless you've spoken of him more before? It definitely sounds like he has allowed his anger, fear, hurt and experiences when within the church to take over him just now and he is demonstrating a great deal of unpleasant negativity. It could be that he needs to go through this angry, vengeful nihilstic phase to process and be done with whatever issues he has from the church before he can mellow, or it could be that he is like this *anyway* and it's just taking a new face with his atheism. There is always the possibility that he's got mental health issues and this is how it is presenting. Who knows? What we do know is that he is not an example of what it is to be an atheist, and using him as a reason to return to religion is a bit odd given that there are *plenty* examples of unbalanced religious people who spout hate and anger and delight in suffering. The people are what make them, not just their beliefs. Beliefs can affect and alter us, there's no doubt, but ultimately the individual has agency, not their worldview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 I know people who overeat compulsively. I don't see that as a reason to starve myself. I've known people who were anorexic. I don't see that as a reason to become obese. Your brother's views sound to me like those of someone mentally unbalanced. No reason for his version of atheism to impel you towards a specific form of theism, or any theism at all for that matter. He has his issues; yours are to find your own point of balance. Don't let him unbalance you as well. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quinntar Posted July 17, 2016 Share Posted July 17, 2016 My brother is a former pastor, and has identified as an atheist for several years. He takes every opportunity he can to denounce other people's belief in God, and make it known to people in public that he is an atheist. He lives alone, does not want friends, and has been reading a lot from Nietzsche, and he says he is in a better state of mind when he is reading Nietzsche. He says theists need to be slowed down. I'm not sure what he means by that. All I know is that his disgust for all things religious has brought him to the point where he talks about suicide and even applauds the guy who shot and killed five police officers in Dallas. It only appears to me that his atheism has either transformed him into a nihilistic hatemonger, or brought out what was already inside him. In his nihilism (or just plain hatred), he said he wants more police officers killed. Listening to my brother makes me wonder if it's not so bad to return to religious belief. Many times I wonder if his words actually prove that a Creator exists. I mean, why be so focused on something that does not exist, if indeed it does not exist? Why won't he live and let live? He is acting like a child who can't stop talking about the cookies they did not take from the jar. Also, when I told my brother that I responded with a "no" when someone asked me if I was a Christian, he was very happy about that, but the spirit behind his response was more like that of someone trying to control what other people believe. It's hard for me to explain how the conversation was. So with that said, I have begun to reevaluate my own reasons for choosing not to be a Christian. If this is what atheism does to a person, I want none of it. That is where I am right now. Yeah I had similar problems so I invented a new spirituality from my head, it has lots of colourful characters (Like imagination being the creator of life and life the universe's architect) Stuff like that. You could do the same, at least it will be your bullshit rather than someone else's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerk Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 To address the last part of your post, I wouldn't say that atheism does anything to anyone. Your brother does sound bipolar from your description, and it could be that the realization that what he believed for most of his life is untrue really knocked him down. That sort of thing can happen to people no matter what the major change in their lives may be. But most people don't really change. Most nasty atheists, if they were ever Christian or Muslim or anything else, were probably nasty practitioners of that faith. Not always, of course. And in the case of realizing that there are no gods or whatever, people certainly have to figure out how to proceed, because the religion gives you a definition of the meaning of life. Until they get things figured out, life can seem meaningless. Having been a fundamentalist Christian, believing that the creation stories and flood story and the legends about Abraham and others were actual history, I relied upon the book to tell me the meaning of life. "Fear God and keep His commandments: This is the whole of man."Knowing now that this isn't true, I'm free to find what matters to me. My family, children and grandchildren give meaning. My job gives meaning. Simple pleasures give meaning. And for big picture things, I give to organizations like Doctors Without Borders and CARE instead of giving to the church, because life is important now. Life is important in a way to Christians, but it's the supposed "next life" that they concentrate on. And life is so much more amazing to me now! It isn't just "God did this in 6 days," it's "this took 4.5 billion years to get to where it is today!" It makes you feel connected, not in a metaphysical or spiritual way, but in a real, DNA connected physical way. So, no, atheism doesn't do horrible things to a person. What happens when a person arrives at the conclusion that there are no gods, demons, angels, spirits, or other minds without bodies, depends upon that person, the nature they already had and how their mind works, and how they approach life once they discover the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TABA Posted July 19, 2016 Moderator Share Posted July 19, 2016 Very well put, MisterTwo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOHO Posted July 21, 2016 Share Posted July 21, 2016 InvidialLuxe, It seems like a good idea, at this point, for you to seek out other athieists/agnostics and get to know them. That might be good advice for your Bro as well. With positive experiences, and maybe even some guidance, he will likely be fine after a bit. Personally I have found that those who think on their own - rather than allowing themselves to be indoctrinated - are quite a bit more pleasant, caring, and predictable, than the vast majority of religious folks I have known. - MOHO (Mind Of His Own) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted July 22, 2016 Share Posted July 22, 2016 Nearly everyone who is a new convert (doesn't matter to what) becomes an obnoxious evangelist for a period of time. It seems to be human nature. I don't see how this would influence your beliefs one way or another. It's not like you can actually choose what makes sense to you and what doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TardisThinker Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 I’m sorry, I’m sure it’s hard for you to see your brother like this. It sounds like he’s in a deeply distressed mental state; it can’t be easy to see someone you love living like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted July 31, 2016 Share Posted July 31, 2016 Atheism means a lack of belief in a god. It doesn't come with any required other beliefs or behaviors or special texts to read and live by. If your brother is acting like a jerk, it's his choice. He's a jerk who happens to be an atheist. Atheism doesn't turn anyone into anything - it's just a rejection of god that people can do with what they will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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