Experiences With T'other Side...

[♦ Fuego ♦]

When I was a believer, I had a handful of experiences on which I look back on and wonder. I'll number them for easy access.

 

1. The first time I can remember anything unusual happening was after waking up one day. I was probably around 14-16, already a believer for about 3-5 years. I woke up in absolutely perfect peace, like I'd been cradled in the arms of god. That is how I interpreted it at the time. As I awoke, I saw a golden light chasing its tail in a circle. I didn't even want to open my eyes because I didn't want to interrupt the feeling of nirvana. It lasted throughout the day, and I tried to communicate it to my mom (she said "That's nice dear"), and didn't speak much that day at all. No idea if I had done anything the previous night to precipitate this event.

 

 

2. Several years later, I was seriously interested in a woman (mostly because she was interested in me and was cute as a button). Everyone I knew said it was a really bad idea. In exasperation, I got on my knees and asked god directly "Should I marry Linda?"

"No." was the response I heard. Seemingly literally heard. That was the first time I'd ever gotten a verbal response to a prayer.

"Ok. Don't be angry, but I just want to make sure I didn't make that up just now. Should I marry..."

"NO!"

"Ok, 'nuff said. It's over."

 

I tried mentioning this to people at church, and they looked at me oddly because no one gets audible responses to prayers.

 

 

3. Years later, a girl I was fond of was dating another guy from outside the church. The guy was acting very oddly, not wanting to be around people except her. I was really perturbed by his behavior and suspected he was up to no good. I fasted and prayed for quite a while looking for a response. I went to church one Sunday and her parents were there all cheerful and said "She's out camping with ___". I was appalled that they weren't in a holy outrage over her sin, but just nodded and went in and sat down. As soon as I sat down I heard the voice again "She's at his house now with him in bed." Pretty specific, so I drove out to his place, saw her car, knew it was true, called her and spoke with her about sin and obedience (which is what I'd been taught to do - nose into other people's business and private lives, all in the name of holiness). Emotionally, that was the worst day of my life. Sent me into a tailspin of sadness. But at the same time, I had heard a vocal response to my inquiry. It seemed natural that this would happen, even though I knew other believers typically didn't have that.

 

 

4. Years later at another semi-Baptist church, my fiancée (not the one from #3) and I were starting on a more charismatic/pentecostal path. We were taking in the teaching of an evangelist that I would later promote worldwide. She was having allergy problems and had difficulty breathing well. I laid hands on her and said "In the name of Jesus, be healed." Voom, it was gone and she could breathe normally. Other believers there were only mildly interested.

 

 

5. We traveled to England to hear the evangelist speak. In this meeting during worship I noticed my hands were shaking. I thought, "Shit, I hope I'm not getting Parkinsons" but then realized that in the old days the Shakers and Quakers were known for such movements happening spontaneously. I felt energy zipping up and down through me like a slinky toy that is stretched out and twanged. It focused in my abdomen area. It was fascinating. I didn't mention the exact things I was feeling when my wife described the same thing happening in her, including the focus point. At the time I took this to mean that god was really present and we were on the right path to his continued presence.

 

 

6. At a prayer meeting with some believers in a home, I felt like a door over my head had been opened and tremendous heat was pouring down on me. I opened my eyes and looked around, and one woman was fanning herself furiously. We smiled at each other, assuming that this was the presence of god again.

 

 

7. I was waiting in line outside a sanctuary in Washington where the evangelist was going to speak. Also in this line was a lady who was acting oddly. She was lightly bopping people on the head with a small plastic hammer and hiccuping like she was drunk. Then she'd use a little paint brush to brush someone and say "I'm brushing off the cares of the world." Then she'd explain, "I'm a clown in my spare time" (meaning she dressed up like a clown and did this sort of thing). She annoyed me since she didn't seem to be taking the presence of god seriously. The closer she got to me, the more I was ready to unleash on her. As she got to me the voice spoke again - "Don't be mean to her"  Voop, all the anger went bye bye and she did her little thing and went on. I couldn't fathom why that would be important to god, but it was pretty clear.

 

 

8. After deconverting, I went to a Reiki class to learn about energy healing. The teacher is a friend and since all the other students were paired up, she let me work on her. She said I had the power of a master healer, and that Jesus was my spirit guide for healing (which went over like a lead balloon with me having deconverted). We did group healing on a certain woman in the class. I joined in a bit later off to one side and about 10ft away. She sat up part way and looked in my direction and blinked, and said "I felt huge waves of heat coming from your direction and had to look." I felt nothing. Most others report feeling nothing when I try to do Reiki. I did have one more experience when I was in a lot of body pain and just miserable. I did self-Reiki all over my body, and went to bed feeling awful. Next day I awoke feeling awful. Got up and started the day, then noticed I felt good. Really good. And that went on for days, feeling chipper and strong.

 

 

That is, I think, all of my experiences with such things. I've been looking for answers about what is real in these realms and what is just religion and woo. Yesterday I was reading about kundalini awakenings (http://biologyofkundalini.com), and was struck how similar those reports are to what I experienced in England, with energy going up and down the spine and focused at the base of the spine. It seems that very similar things happen in many religions and spiritual paths. That made me curious about why "they" from the other side wouldn't clarify that it has nothing to do with a particular belief system or god. I'm also curious why the voice stopped talking to me, and why it chose those particular times to speak. I have no answers currently, but have questions and am looking into the common experiences of energy in these contexts. The most recent things I've been reading and discussing with my wife would indicate that "they" are me on another level of reality, and that we are here for some reasons that aren't clear.

 

Anyway, just throwing these out there for general discussion, and please share if you have experienced anything like this and what your view is of it.

[yunea]

I too wonder about the energies. I've had strong experiences both giving and receiving it.

 

I am not sure how to explain it. I don't do any energy things with humans anymore, but I occasionally do it with animals. If nothing else, I know animals feel it when I focus on them, and I definitely focus on them lovingly when I think of giving them positive energy, and they do respond with affection. Some animals have had their leg muscles go limp for a second, such as a friend's huge dog who fell right over when I petted her, and just this morning, a cat.

 

However, it seems animals are able to give me energy as well, it's like electricity and warmth coming in waves, and they do start and stop it at definite moments. The most surprising animal who has done this is my biggest giant snail, but I've also felt it from dogs and horses.

 

I also seem to still have incredible luck finding items I need for tiny money. Like really crazy ass luck. I try to attribute it to how I keep looking until I find it, but...luck after luck after luck?

[Ellinas]

OK, let's take a step back.

 

Logically, it is entirely true that these are merely subjective experiences.  It is entirely true that none of them prove anything.

 

It is also entirely true that there is no particular value in denying an experience just because it doesn't fit into a logical framework.  I would, however, hesitate to talk in terms of "energies" (strikes me as merely a term of art that translates as "no clue what it is...") or to assert the objective existence of anything outside of myself save when couched in terms of personal, unprovable belief.

 

My purely personal take on this:

1. Experience one is possibly hypnopompic and likely to derive from your own psyche's reaction to your belief system.
2. Experience two may be your own mind answering your own thoughts in terms that reflect the pressures and comments to which you were subject at the time.  Personally, I'm open to the idea of some sort of psychic manifestation but cannot to confirm it.  I see no reason to read any idea of "god" into this, either way.  Nor do I see that it matters which explanation is accepted - the experience is the same regardless.
3. Experience three may be seen in similar terms to experience two - your own suspicions giving rise to a mentally vocalised idea that just happened to be correct, or some sort of psychic, but not divine, event.
4. Experience four may be seen as some sort of extreme placebo effect; the result then comes from the mind of the person you "healed" rather than from you - albeit you become the agency for the administration of that placebo.
5. Experience five need be nothing more than the excited reaction of persons in a psychologically receptive state for an expected or hoped for "spiritual" experience.  I would put this down to your and your wife's own mentality at the time.
6. Experience six - any chance of some sort of heat source going wrong at the time, or even a sudden change in the weather?  Why on earth would god have a fever?  My best guess is an unexplained external event.
7. Experience seven - see 2 and 3 above; in this case I would guess your own conscience was talking to you.  There is no issue here of any verifiable result as in the other experiences.
8. Experience eight is an interesting one as I know others who have had some experiences with Reiki.  The idea that Jesus is your spirit guide sounds like the output of a bull that's eaten too many bran flakes (albeit the person who said this may have been perfectly sincere), but the concept that Reiki has some strange effects is one that I would be prepared to investigate.

Kundalini is reportedly something with which one should not mess - I suspect the potential for unbalancing an unstable mentality.  If you are thinking of going down that route, do plenty of research first.  I have no direct experience of this, however.

 

As to experiences, the Reiki issue relates to someone with whom I work who is a practitioner.  She claims to be able to see auras.  Some years ago she did a session on another colleague - a very down to earth type not liable to go off on weird fantasies.  During the session, he later told me, he also saw coloured auras.  He had no explanation.

 

I have limited experience of apparent psychic phenomena:

• Knowing what I am about to be asked to do before the request is made (which happened when I was a young child and my father wanted me to perform a household chore - he was surprised when I told him what was involved before he'd said anything, even down to how many bottles were involved).
• Precognitive dream - the night before my mother's cooker died I dreamed that it had blown up - vividly enough that I nearly shot myself out of bed.  I was not living there at the time and had inkling that the device was on its' last legs - indeed, neither did anyone else.

I've also dabbled in dowsing, but never to an extent that provides anything verifiable.  As I told an experienced dowser who said I'd found an underground brook, as I had no shovel with me I could not confirm or deny that assertion.  However, there was certainly some sort of reaction that seemed specific to a particular place in a particular field.

 

In the end, who knows?  I'm not prepared to ridicule something just because science has no explanation.  It has no explanation for my conscious awareness either, but I'm pretty sure I am conscious and aware.  But neither am I going to assert a particular event as evidence of something it isn't or proof of something unproven.  The experiences are what they are and, pending further evidence, that is all we can say about them.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

Thanks! The reason I use the comparison to energies is because I've felt the zap of electrical shorts in equipment before, and it is akin to that, though not nearly as numbing. As for what each of them are, I really have no idea at this point, so am looking for more points of data.

 

I've seen the warnings about kundalini, but was mostly re-examining my prior experiences in terms of how that has been described. I will still look into it as a possible cross-faith thing that happens, and may see if it can be induced.

 

Recent experiments with cannabis have been interesting, yielding colors and patterns, conversations with my subconscious personified, but I'm aware that I'm under the influence of a substance and that it could be the equivalent of "shorting out" my synapses and not yielding anything useful (other than some almost holodeck quality erotic fantasies). All of the previous experiences were long before I had any cannabis or even beer.

 

If I had not experienced any of these, I'd be a lot more skeptical about what others claim to experience. These had such a ring of reality to them that I'm still pondering them a decade later, and trying to see if there were similar mindsets or emotional states that contributed to them such as exasperation (like in 2, 3, and 7). During my deconversion, I had been asking very direct questions and even fasting, but got no response.

[Ellinas]

The problem with this sort of experience is that it's generally not easily replicated.  Perhaps during your deconversion your subconscious had no need to pass you any directions, so to speak...!

[BeyondReligiosity]

I've had many experiences like you, Fuego - so many and for so long that even now, after the long process of deconversion, I still wonder if there is "something more" as William James put it. The Christian faith has been totally debunked for me. That being said, there were so many things that happened and so consistently that it's hard to chalk it all up to confirmation bias and coincidence. I do know I can attribute a lot of it to that, but even back then I had a very analytical mind, was self-aware and practical in a lot of ways. I did not automatically attribute everything that happened to spiritual explanations. I admit, I lived in a "gated community of the mind" (another loan from William James) - where I only looked for insight and wisdom from Christian sources. That explains why I would have seen God's hand in so many things. It just doesn't explain why so many things seemed to happen.

 

Nothing important was ever lost or stolen that wasn't recovered unharmed. There were instances when others despaired, but I always had faith and things worked out. 

So many prayers were answered. I can attribute part of that to the fact that I didn't always pray specifically but in general terms, but not all - there were a lot of "answers to prayer" that were unusual. I was considered a prayer warrior and both I and others could feel the presence of the Holy Spirit when I prayed.

I grew as a person and experienced emotional healing through my "relationship with God." Many of the things I learned through "divine revelation" of "the Word" proved sound wisdom still applicable to my life now.

For ten years my faith did nothing but grow. I had questions, doubts and trials. But it seemed that I always got what I needed when I needed it to remain faithful.

One thing I know and may be important for you, too. I, myself, was fixated on God. My relationship with him was my only coping skill in life. Now I'm only allowing myself to be open to spirituality somewhat tenuously. I have other interests, other coping skills and I don't look for certainty in anything. I find my security in other things. That's been a big part of my recovery. Hugs and thanks for starting this thread.