R. S. Martin Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 On another thread someone told me that Christies hate/fear pentagrams. That puzzled me and I decided to start a thread to discuss the topic, if this is possible to do calmly. Here's why it puzzles me initially: I'm not sure what a pentagram is but when I looked it up it seemed merely to be a five-pointed star. That Christians hate or fear those is news to me. When I was in first grade in school, the teacher gave us gold star, silver star, etc. depending on how good we did in our printing exercise. Gold star was best. And all the stars were five-pointed stars and I'm quite sure the teacher was Christian. You can buy them in any dollar store as stickers today, I'm quite sure, especially the blue, red, and green ones. Also the line drawings of these were quite common all my life. Maybe it depends on what brand of Christianity one comes from??? Come to think of it, the Star of Bethlehem stuck on top of Christmas trees is a five-pointed one too. I agree that it might originate from pre-Christian traditions but the people who use it today certainly don't fear it so I'm not sure of what value it would be to draw it on a Bible... That's what I posted in that thread. http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/73486-ten-years-deconverted-and-a-new-bible-at-my-door/?p=1117083 Now I've done a bit more research, primarily in Wikipedia. It seems the idea that the pentagram is evil began with a man specializing in magic and the occult named Eliphas Levi (1810-1875), born Alphonse Louise Constant. QUOTE: He was also the first to declare that a pentagram or five-pointed star with one point down and two points up represents evil, while a pentagram with one point up and two points down represents good. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliphas_Levi From: Pentagram: Cultural Significance https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagram#Cultural_significance Another occult writer, Heinrich Cornelius Agrippa von Nettesheim (1486-1535), "and others perpetuated the popularity of the pentagram as a magic symbol, attributing the five neoplatonic elements to the five points." I'm not sure what is meant by the five points, except that in "early history" the pentagram, or parts thereof, served in Sumerian script or cuneiform. In some kind of myth it seems "the "five corners" are where the seeds of Chronos are placed within the Earth in order for the cosmos to appear." Beginning with "ancient times" (King Solomon is mentioned), the pentagram seems to have stood for good such as the five senses, five wounds of Christ, five joys of Mary, and moving on in time, the five virtues of a knight. At one point and place it meant health. (I hope I'm getting this right; it certainly was not a sign for evil. You can read it for yourself.) As near as I can figure out, not until the fourteenth century was the pentagram associated with magic per se. Even then, it was not meant for evil until after 1848 when Eliphas Levi sort of went bonkers. I guess, that being nearly a century and seventy years ago (three lifetimes?), it's no wonder that some Christies latched onto it so that today some of us think Christianity hates/fears pentagrams. That's my thoughts. Anyone else have thoughts on this? More research, perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyra Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 I think they meant the witchcraft-specific version where it's like a star with a circle around it. Not just your ordinary garden variety star symbol that you see everywhere. Either way, I think it's stupid. The idea of "evil" should define things like, you know, acting in sadistic ways without empathy and doing things to harm others. Not a symbol, which has no power to affect anyone in any manner whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ Fuego ♦ Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 The "star of David" is supposed to be another protective star symbol from the occult (hidden knowledge), brought in during the time of Solomon when his wives brought in other religions. People have been trying to get magic to work for a very long time, so some of those symbols and practices survived, others faded into obscurity. Pythagoras also attributed divine aspects to certain shapes, and the golden ratio especially was significant. The pentagram inside of a circle is used as a symbol of witchcraft these days. It is often seen in movies where a demon is conjured and has to stay within the circle, or alternatively the magician is within the circle and thus protected from the spirits he/she conjures. The symbol of the pentacle or pentagram was adopted by lots of mystery cults and by the Masonic groups, as well as Jewish mystics. They in turn used it as a symbol of god, and may have incorporated it into the layout of certain cities in early American history (according to an old VHS tape I watched years ago that laid out a map and overlaid it with the pentagram in several areas). The Pentagon may have some relation to the Masonic trend in early American leadership. The symbol is also used in the medal of honor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 The pentagram, as I was told, was especially bad when inverted so that the point was facing downward. I don't know why. And when the points of the star are allowed to go beyond the circle that means the magic can somehow escape or something. I really don't know all the reasons just what I was told by people telling how evil this all was way back when I could be convinced this really was evil and not silly superstition. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ Fuego ♦ Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 I had a Catholic friend nearly jump back when I was wearing one around my neck on Halloween. Boo! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jds22 Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 The pentagram, as I was told, was especially bad when inverted so that the point was facing downward. I don't know why. And when the points of the star are allowed to go beyond the circle that means the magic can somehow escape or something. I really don't know all the reasons just what I was told by people telling how evil this all was way back when I could be convinced this really was evil and not silly superstition. mwc Funny, I was told the same thing. I was wondering if anybody else knew about the points extending beyond the circle. I was also told by a "rock music is satanic" speaker that if you look closely enough at this image you can see half the face of a demon. It took me forever until I finally saw it. A couple bong hits probably helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted August 9, 2016 Super Moderator Share Posted August 9, 2016 It, like other symbols, means many thing to many cultures. The times and popular opinion always redefine a symbol, much like what happened to the Confederate flag, the cross and the swastika. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Maybe some Christians could chime in? Pentagram/Pentacle as a symbol of evil? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jds22 Posted August 9, 2016 Share Posted August 9, 2016 Maybe some Christians could chime in? Pentagram/Pentacle as a symbol of evil? Speaking from a formerly independent baptist perspective, yes it is evil. Regardless whether it is pointing up or down, points inside or outside of the circle, it all comes from the devil himself and is evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted August 10, 2016 Author Share Posted August 10, 2016 Thanks for your input, everyone. It, like other symbols, means many thing to many cultures. The times and popular opinion always redefine a symbol, much like what happened to the Confederate flag, the cross and the swastika. I agree that this applies to pretty much all signs and symbols, including the pentagram. As for why it is evil when turned upside down, translations quoted in Wikipedia say Eliphas Levi believed: It is the goat of lust attacking the heavens with its horns." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagram#Western_symbolism I personally can't take the guy seriously but that seems to be the thinking behind it. Read the link for more information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ Fuego ♦ Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Yeah, the star upside down is sometimes portrayed with a goat head so that the horns are in the points up, the beard and ears in the points down. How they got the angel of light to become "the ancient serpent", and then to be a guy with a goat head, who knows. I suppose because the sheep and the goats parable. They never portrayed him as a weed or a "bad fish", which were also parables of the sorting at the end of all life. Some pagans say it is improper to have it upside down. Religious people put a lot of stock in symbolism. That's why the Revelation is almost all weird symbolism. It can then mean all kinds of things that aren't real or true, while generating fear of getting it wrong. That's cash for religion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyra Posted August 10, 2016 Share Posted August 10, 2016 Maybe the evil downward-facing point is supposed to be like a demon's hanging pointed schlong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted August 11, 2016 Author Share Posted August 11, 2016 Similar thoughts occurred to me, Lyra. I wouldn't put it past sex-obsessed medievalists--and modernists. I suppose this is another thread but sometimes I think that because they label sex bad, and also all other forms of fun and recreation, they become obsessed with physical lusts and appetites that are embedded in the body--it's the one thing they can't shut out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbemis81 Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 The meaning behind the pentagram is subjects at least in whether it's good or evil. From a Christian perspective it would be evil. From a pagan perspective it would symbolize the sacred circle and the elements, earth, air, fire, water and spirit. I used to wear to remind me of my wiccan path(though I left that path) and to remind me of my connection with the elements and goddess. I don't remember the history behind it, but I do know that Christians are intensely superstitious, in general. So it's not unusual for them to have attached meaning to this symbol or any other symbol. Human in general tend to look for patterns and are in credibly drawn to symbolism. But this evolves and the means evolve over time. Even the symbol itself evolves with time and culture. The cross is a very good example of this. The symbol only has power to the person using it or viewing it. Sorry, I'm a bit late to this conversation, but this is my first post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted August 26, 2016 Author Share Posted August 26, 2016 Welcome to exC, rbemis81! I feel honoured that your first post is on my thread. Enjoy your stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbemis81 Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 thank you RS Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 The inverted pentagram - with goats head drawn within it - adorns the cover of my copy of the Satanic Bible. It seems to have been taken by LaVey to create his version of the Baphomet - the supposed idol of the Templars. Levi had his own version of the Baphomet also, a goat headed ithyphallic androgyne set within kabbalistic symbols. My own view (rightly or wrongly)is that "Baphomet" is a corruption of "Mahomet" and that the allegation against the Templars grew out of a distorted suspicion of them harbouring closet Muslims following conversions to that religion. In the end, Christians fear any symbol that they do not regard as overtly Christian. The modern pagan/satanist associations just feed the paranoia. It's as if they see symbols as something objective, almost organic and living, rather than just representations bearing whatever meaning you give them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. S. Martin Posted September 7, 2016 Author Share Posted September 7, 2016 It's as if they see symbols as something objective, almost organic and living, rather than just representations bearing whatever meaning you give them. This resonates exactly with my observations. I have a really hard time accepting that anyone is this stupid but the evidence is strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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