I Didn't Choose Atheism.

[Guest Furball]

Over and over and over again I hear something that makes me see red. I mean literally pisses me off to the point where I have to go for a walk to cool down. It's what know-it-all smug arrogant prideful christians love to throw in my face. And what that is, is that I have willfully or intentionally chosen to turn my back on god and jesus. This statement is made without the christian knowing anything about me or my christian background. This is arrogance and pride in full bloom on their part. For 13 years I was indoctrinated with hard core evangelical, puritan fire and brimstone christianity. I spent thousands of dollars on every bible version I could find, as well as every christian book I could get my hands on not to mention all the financial support I gave in tithes as well as christian organizations around the world. I spent all my free time out in the world street evangelizing, risking my life in gang infested-druggie neighborhoods telling these scary people all about sin and jesus etc. In all my 13 years street evangelizing in numerous cities, I never once saw another christian out there "fulfilling the great commision" as I was doing. When I wasn't doing that I was reading my bible cover to cover till it was falling apart in my hands. I would wake up in the middle of the night to continue reading my bible. When I went to work, I made sure I had my pocket bible to read every chance I had. I was immersed in the bible like a fish immerses itself in deep water. I loved the bible so much I even hand copied entire books out of the bible for no reason other than I loved the "precious seed." I wrote poems about god and jesus out of my love for them. Unlike these self professing "true christians," my christianity was all day everyday 7 days a week. After all that, my faith, which was stronger than anyone's I ever met, disappeared literally overnight after reading jesus interrupted by bart ehrman. Even as I watched my faith crumble to the ground, I still kept praying to both god and jesus to restore my faith. I begged father jehovah and his son yeshua not to let me fall away from the faith, to keep me in the "fold." I prayed all day everyday to god not to let me become an unbeliever (atheist) and nothing ever happened. I tried to find any evidence that the atheists were wrong and that the christians were right. In doing so, I found that christianity had zero evidence to back it up, and that the atheists had all the evidence in the world to back them up. After everything I did for god and jesus and all the love from my heart that I gave them, god and jesus let me fall away into atheism anyways. If the christian god and jesus did exist, it was their will that I become an atheist and ultimately end up in hell. If the christian god and jesus did exist, my becoming an atheist was their will...their choice. I never chose to turn my back on god, he chose to turn his back on me. I never willfully denied jesus, he willfully denied me. So christians, the next time you're dealing with an ex-christian, don't assume anything. In fact, his or her christian faith probably exceeded your current one by about a thousand miles down the road; so maybe you should think twice before opening your judgmental mouth and making false accusations that aren't true. I realize you're brainwashed. I realize your pastor fills your head with lies about atheists. I realize that you, being the good pew-parrot that you are, will go out into the world and repeat everything your "shepherd" indoctrinated you with. I feel sorry for you that you are locked into this psychological trap called christianity. I feel for you. I was once you. But now I am not one of you. I am an atheist. It was god's choice. 

[Geezer]

Like you Furball I was a deeply committed Xian. During my 47 years of Xian service I taught bible classes, served as a Deacon several times, served as a Elder twice, conducted Bible studies & baptized a number of people into Christ & occasionally did a little preaching too.

 

I was a member of the Church of Christ for a good portion of my Xian life. The focus in the c of c is on the Bible. They absolutely believe the Bible is the verbally inspired word of God & it's therefore perfect without error or blemish. It is essentially an instruction manual from God that must be followed literally & precisely as written.

 

In reality, based on my years of experience, the c of co worships the Bible, Paul, Jesus & God & pretty much in that order. They seem to believe the Bible & God are one & the same thing. At some point I realized my "faith" was in the Bible first & foremost.

 

Sometime in the late 90's I began to have doubts about the Bibles Devine status & I eventually began reading Bible scholars (Historians) instead of apologist. Like you I discovered Ehrman & also like you my faith disappeared over night after reading only one of his books. Since then I've read pretty much all of his books as well as numerous other religious historians.

 

The truth indeed will set you free!

[MOHO]

Furry,

 

I was devout but never evangelized. My wife, however, does the downtown evangelizing, goes to 5 or 6 church services/week, and reads those bible suplemental books (booklets?) contantly. She reads the bible but not, book-by-book. I cannot honestly say that she has even read one entire book.

 

I say this because reading the thing book-by-book is what led me astray and to begin investigating in earnets. And this investigation led me to were I am now - not CHOOSING to turn my back an ANYTHING! In fact, like you, I was hoping to find facts and "reasoning" to fortify my xtian beliefs.

 

Back to your topic - so it REALLY REALLY pisses me no end when I hear the self-righteous ask why, or point out that, I have turned my back on xtianity. I have read and studied more xtian and non-xtian text than most of them (based on conversations wherein it is obvious that they don't know as much about the bible as I do).

[MOHO]

SChoogle,

 

We're in a great place living with a spouse that does not get it, eh?

[Mike D]

I used to get annoyed over stuff like this, but the truth is that religious faith, whether Christian, Islam, or anything else, is the inability of a person to distinguish fantasy from reality.  They're delusional.  So you have to approach it like you're having a discussion with someone with mental health "special needs".  Just smile politely, nod in agreement, and accept the fact that rational discourse is not possible with someone who believes that invisible people are real.  The sooner you get to that point, the better off you'll be.

 

Good luck.

 

 

 

[searchinwithnoagenda]

I used to get annoyed over stuff like this, but the truth is that religious faith, whether Christian, Islam, or anything else, is the inability of a person to distinguish fantasy from reality. They're delusional. So you have to approach it like you're having a discussion with someone with mental health "special needs". Just smile politely, nod in agreement, and accept the fact that rational discourse is not possible with someone who believes that invisible people are real. The sooner you get to that point, the better off you'll be.

 

Good luck.

Agreed. Very recently I've begun to see the whole religious exercise as similar to a young child going outside "to play". Where things don't have to make logical sense and magic makes everything fit together.

[buffettphan]

I get your frustration. If there is an omniscient god, he knew we would become atheists and he did nothing to stop it. There is no going back now, we know too much. I've tried explaining this to my husband but he says he's going to keep praying for me anyway. What a waste of time.

 

 

SChoogle,

 

We're in a great place living with a spouse that does not get it, eh?

 

I'm right there with you two.  I am thisclose to my breaking point.  Just yesterday, after another of DFH's (DearFundyHubby) long drawn out invitations to join him at yet another church meeting/bible study, I declined the invitation and snapped at him saying, "No because I stopped believing in fairy tales a long time ago."  At least it shut him up - for the time being.     

 

What's really crazy-making for me, is that he is so logical in every aspect of life except religion.  I don't see how his brain hasn't shattered into a million pieces trying to make sense of the nonsense.  Now that he has retired (July 1) and has all this extra time on his hands, he fills it with extra doses of jeeeeeeezus.  

[searchinwithnoagenda]

buffetphan, my heart goes out to you. Maybe there is a hell...and you're living it unfortunately. The compartmentalization is indeed mind boggling.

[LifeCycle]

Excellent post! So right! At least atheism has integrity!

 

A blind will to follow isn't a human virtue. Questioning and constantly pursuing, is.

[Blindsighted]

I didn't turn my back on god. The concept of god just vanished before my eyes.

[GirlOnFire]

I love that you brought this up!!  I share this same frustration.  (It's funny....my atheist dad and I were actually discussing this, this very morning, in regards to dealing with my super fundy uncle.  Then I come in here, and read this post.)

 

For me, there is also an element of trying to explain the mental, emotional, and spiritual abuse -- because that was a big part of my personal story and extremely painful -- and they dismiss it like I'm making it up, or that the church could not, would not ever be capable of inflicting such pain on someone.  To be told your very real abuse wasn't real....that really hurts.

 

My fundy uncle even told me once (on Christmas eve, after he'd gotten hammered, no less), that regardless of whatever the church may or may not've done to me (which he made clear he thought I was fabricating), that I was destined for hell and damnation because I said I couldn't forgive the church/church members for what they did to me.  (And this was before I even left Xianity!!)  WTH?!?

[LifeCycle]

I love that you brought this up!!  I share this same frustration.  (It's funny....my atheist dad and I were actually discussing this, this very morning, in regards to dealing with my super fundy uncle.  Then I come in here, and read this post.)

 

For me, there is also an element of trying to explain the mental, emotional, and spiritual abuse -- because that was a big part of my personal story and extremely painful -- and they dismiss it like I'm making it up, or that the church could not, would not ever be capable of inflicting such pain on someone.  To be told your very real abuse wasn't real....that really hurts.

 

My fundy uncle even told me once (on Christmas eve, after he'd gotten hammered, no less), that regardless of whatever the church may or may not've done to me (which he made clear he thought I was fabricating), that I was destined for hell and damnation because I said I couldn't forgive the church/church members for what they did to me.  (And this was before I even left Xianity!!)  WTH?!?

When it comes to judging the actions of others, God stands conveniently behind those doing the judging. 

[GirlOnFire]

 

I love that you brought this up!!  I share this same frustration.  (It's funny....my atheist dad and I were actually discussing this, this very morning, in regards to dealing with my super fundy uncle.  Then I come in here, and read this post.)

 

For me, there is also an element of trying to explain the mental, emotional, and spiritual abuse -- because that was a big part of my personal story and extremely painful -- and they dismiss it like I'm making it up, or that the church could not, would not ever be capable of inflicting such pain on someone.  To be told your very real abuse wasn't real....that really hurts.

 

My fundy uncle even told me once (on Christmas eve, after he'd gotten hammered, no less), that regardless of whatever the church may or may not've done to me (which he made clear he thought I was fabricating), that I was destined for hell and damnation because I said I couldn't forgive the church/church members for what they did to me.  (And this was before I even left Xianity!!)  WTH?!?

When it comes to judging the actions of others, God stands conveniently behind those doing the judging. 

 

 

It's so convenient, isn't it?

[MOHO]

"Just smile politely, nod in agreement, and accept the fact that rational discourse is not possible with someone who believes that invisible people are real.  The sooner you get to that point, the better off you'll be."

 

Mike D.

 

This, in general, is a sound approach. However, when the other party is your spouse their delusions have a real impact on your life. It is frequently not prudent to simply dismiss their bible babble as harmless gibberish and walk away.

 

I would be very interested in the advice and direction of a professional on how best to deal with this crap.

[Mike D]

"Just smile politely, nod in agreement, and accept the fact that rational discourse is not possible with someone who believes that invisible people are real.  The sooner you get to that point, the better off you'll be."

 

Mike D.

 

This, in general, is a sound approach. However, when the other party is your spouse their delusions have a real impact on your life. It is frequently not prudent to simply dismiss their bible babble as harmless gibberish and walk away.

 

I would be very interested in the advice and direction of a professional on how best to deal with this crap.

 

For sure when family members are involved it's not that easy.  If it's your spouse you may have to find some balance between being honest about your lack of beliefs, while accepting the fact that when it comes to religion people will believe what they will, and there's not much you can do about it.    My father was pretty much a hardcore Christian until the day he died, and he knew I ended up an atheist.  So, we agreed to disagree and left it at that.  I at least got him to admit that he could see why I didn't believe, and that his beliefs were subjective.  That was an accomplishment as far as I was concerned...

[florduh]

Atheism means simply that the theologians have failed to make their case to a rational, thinking brain.

[MOHO]

"Atheism means simply that the theologians have failed to make their case to a rational, thinking brain."

 

I want a bumper sticker that says that.

[buffettphan]

^^Me too!

[ConsiderTheSource]

 "I realize your pastor fills your head with lies about atheists."   OMg.... how I remember this.  Both atheists and "Secular Humanists" were taught as the greatest worldly enemies, to be avoided and shunned at all cost.  Wow...I remember myself having the same thoughts.  So sick.

[Guest Furball]

 "I realize your pastor fills your head with lies about atheists."   OMg.... how I remember this.  Both atheists and "Secular Humanists" were taught as the greatest worldly enemies, to be avoided and shunned at all cost.  Wow...I remember myself having the same thoughts.  So sick.

Yeah, once they get the person to psychologically lower their guard, they can fill their head with pretty much whatever they want. I remember being told that atheists were actually working for the devil, spreading lies about christianity. The pastors that I used to listen to were experts at telling people how bad science was, and how it was not to be trusted, that atheists had no clue what they were talking about and how they had no evidence to back their unbelief. I can't believe how easily I believed those pastors (a.k.a. paid liars) lies about science and atheism. They used to tell us to stay away from science talk and atheist debates at all costs. Now I know why. I'm right there with you ConsiderTheSource, I feel the same way. 

[Blood]

Atheism pre-dates Biblical Judaism and Christianity. I believe that fact needs to be stated more often, and boldly. 

[Blood]

 

 "I realize your pastor fills your head with lies about atheists."   OMg.... how I remember this.  Both atheists and "Secular Humanists" were taught as the greatest worldly enemies, to be avoided and shunned at all cost.  Wow...I remember myself having the same thoughts.  So sick.

Yeah, once they get the person to psychologically lower their guard, they can fill their head with pretty much whatever they want. I remember being told that atheists were actually working for the devil, spreading lies about christianity. The pastors that I used to listen to were experts at telling people how bad science was, and how it was not to be trusted, that atheists had no clue what they were talking about and how they had no evidence to back their unbelief. I can't believe how easily I believed those pastors (a.k.a. paid liars) lies about science and atheism. They used to tell us to stay away from science talk and atheist debates at all costs. Now I know why. I'm right there with you ConsiderTheSource, I feel the same way. 

 

 

 

"Yeah, once they get the person to psychologically lower their guard, they can fill their head with pretty much whatever they want."

 

Or, as Aristotle put it, once one absurdity has been conceded, the rest will follow. Once the con-man convinces you he's not a con, he's got his hooks in you. 

[ConsiderTheSource]

 

 "I realize your pastor fills your head with lies about atheists."   OMg.... how I remember this.  Both atheists and "Secular Humanists" were taught as the greatest worldly enemies, to be avoided and shunned at all cost.  Wow...I remember myself having the same thoughts.  So sick.

Yeah, once they get the person to psychologically lower their guard, they can fill their head with pretty much whatever they want. I remember being told that atheists were actually working for the devil, spreading lies about christianity. The pastors that I used to listen to were experts at telling people how bad science was, and how it was not to be trusted, that atheists had no clue what they were talking about and how they had no evidence to back their unbelief. I can't believe how easily I believed those pastors (a.k.a. paid liars) lies about science and atheism. They used to tell us to stay away from science talk and atheist debates at all costs. Now I know why. I'm right there with you ConsiderTheSource, I feel the same way. 

 

Wow Furball, did you get programmed in the same place I was?  Everything you say matches to a T.   I remember being programmed to be quite angry about atheists and "Secular Humanists".  I totally stayed away from any from "them" and got angry, so angry, when I would see "them" on TV.  Oh, of course, I never got to know them.  Never searched out and verified what was being stuffed in my head.

[rbemis81]

I hear you Furball. I remember praying that I wouldn't fall away again too. But that's happening. Also, just started listening to Jesus Interrupted. That book is powerful. What pissed me off was that this stuff is known to the pastors and preachers. Yet, each week they get up there and still say that this book is the word of god. How?!

 

What upsets you is valid, it upsets me too. I have a friend that says that "God is still God" even though I've been going through this struggle. As if this was a choice to go through this struggle. Her words piss me off because she's not hearing it. She's just pushing back what she's been indoctrinated with. They think that somehow, our struggles will infect them. Every time, I wanted to discuss my doubts, I was pointed to the bible. But the more I researched the more doubts crept up. They don't want to hear anything, but their own arrogant opinions.

 

I really wish Christians would read this site. It'd be a real eye opening experience. Even if they don't lose their faith, at least they would have a better understanding of why people leave. Which would help them check their egos at the door. 

[Guest Furball]

I hear you Furball. I remember praying that I wouldn't fall away again too. But that's happening. Also, just started listening to Jesus Interrupted. That book is powerful. What pissed me off was that this stuff is known to the pastors and preachers. Yet, each week they get up there and still say that this book is the word of god. How?!

 

What upsets you is valid, it upsets me too. I have a friend that says that "God is still God" even though I've been going through this struggle. As if this was a choice to go through this struggle. Her words piss me off because she's not hearing it. She's just pushing back what she's been indoctrinated with. They think that somehow, our struggles will infect them. Every time, I wanted to discuss my doubts, I was pointed to the bible. But the more I researched the more doubts crept up. They don't want to hear anything, but their own arrogant opinions.

 

I really wish Christians would read this site. It'd be a real eye opening experience. Even if they don't lose their faith, at least they would have a better understanding of why people leave. Which would help them check their egos at the door. 

Jesus interrupted was what opened the flood gates back to reality for me. I too was amazed to read that pastors knew the bible is chock full of lies and yet still stand up in the pew holding the bible up in the air claiming it was the infallible word of god. You're right on the money when you say they don't want to hear anything, but their own arrogant opinions. This is the major reason why I have stopped debating christians; no matter what I say or how much evidence I bring to the table, they just tune out. When I was in church, they did the same to me as when I would start asking questions, they would just tell me to pray about it or seek my answers in the 'good book.' There were times when I had asked a question, I could visibly see the deacon or pastor get a nervous expression on their face. If I pushed an issue, they would even get a few beads of sweat on their forehead and begin to stammer for an answer. Apparently, asking questions is a big no-no with them. I feel your frustration rbemis81, hang in there.