Insightful Posted August 17, 2016 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I've noticed that for Christians, when someone they love (who is also a Christian) dies, the talk focuses on how "we will see him/her again one day!" and about how it is only a temporary separation. I totally get it - it makes it all somehow more bearable. Some friends of ours recently lost a loved one. They posted: "Thankful that for a believer in Christ, death is not the end. We will see you once again" When I hear that, I sense a deep fear of death on the part of the person who is speaking/writing. As though reality - AS IT IS - is just too much. I am finding tremendous peace and happiness accepting reality. It really is OK if we don't meet again somewhere far away. The show doesn't have to go on. All of the future reunion talk, though, seems to detract from the person's life and legacy. Those moments and words could have been spent talking about who that person was, the joy they brought to others, the lessons we've all learned from their life, and the impact their life will continue to have in those they loved. I'm not bold enough to say that I KNOW there is nothing after this life. But if there is, we have too little credible evidence to sit around imagining it when there is so much left to be done HERE. I guess I'm feeling a lot of different things all at once: - sad for those who must cling to delusion to make it through life - frustrated that their delusions take away from special moments in life (like funerals) - thrilled to have broken free 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOHO Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 "But if there is, we have too little credible evidence to sit around imagining it when there is so much left to be done HERE." BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOHO Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 " I guess I'm feeling a lot of different things all at once: - sad for those who must cling to delusion to make it through life - frustrated that their delusions take away from special moments in life (like funerals) - thrilled to have broken free " I'm with 'ya on ALL 3, Insightful. BTW: I grew up in Tustin. Did I tell you that before? This is your brain on AGE!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyra Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 I agree. You bring up very, very good points about how "we'll see each other in heaven" just distracts the focus from the actual impacts the person made here in this life on Earth. Also, what would those people think/say about a deceased loved one who wasn't a Christian? It's one thing to talk about Hell in the abstract, but is anyone truly willing to believe that their wonderful, but unbelieving, grandparent/child/friend/uncle would be tormented at the decree of their "loving god" forever? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 One of the cringiest lines from church music: "Heaven is real, and death is a lie" They reinforce each other's belief by mindlessly repeating the same things every Sunday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randinem Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 I attended a funeral for a great man this week. Unfortunately all the preacher talked about was a little bit of heaven and a ton of how bad hell was for non believers. To take a good man with an interesting background down to one sentence so that you can spend the rest of the time frightening people is an awful thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOHO Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 Lilith, Talk about repitition of mindless doctrine. That's why they do 3~4 meeting/week and "encourage" the sheeple to have home fellowhip. I wonder how many fundies would snap out of it if they skipped this crap for 6 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeCycle Posted August 18, 2016 Share Posted August 18, 2016 This can be one of the most difficult things to overcome after deconversion. For those that have grown up with the mentality that this is it, it's really is simple. But for those of us who go from immortal to mortal overnight, it's rough. Time heals though and over time, it becomes less significant an issue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ Fuego ♦ Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 Even at the memorial of an atheist friend of mine who belonged to the Freedom From Religion group, a believer felt compelled to read aloud a sappy book about the wonders of Heaven while the rest of us cringed. Not an excerpt, a book. Wasn't terribly long, but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Margee Posted August 23, 2016 Moderator Share Posted August 23, 2016 This can be one of the most difficult things to overcome after deconversion. For those that have grown up with the mentality that this is it, it's really is simple. But for those of us who go from immortal to mortal overnight, it's rough. Time heals though and over time, it becomes less significant an issue. LC, even as the vet put down my darling 18 year old cat on Sunday she turned to me and said, ''Someday god will allow all of us to go over the 'rainbow bridge' to visit our dear animals who have passed.'' I wanted to scream because at one time, this is what I truly believed and now I understand that I probably won't get the chance to ever see any of my loved ones or animals. Makes death very hard for me still......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeCycle Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 This can be one of the most difficult things to overcome after deconversion. For those that have grown up with the mentality that this is it, it's really is simple. But for those of us who go from immortal to mortal overnight, it's rough. Time heals though and over time, it becomes less significant an issue. LC, even as the vet put down my darling 18 year old cat on Sunday she turned to me and said, ''Someday god will allow all of us to go over the 'rainbow bridge' to visit our dear animals who have passed.'' I wanted to scream because at one time, this is what I truly believed and now I understand that I probably won't get the chance to ever see any of my loved ones or animals. Makes death very hard for me still......... I'm so sorry for your loss Margee! *Hugs* That's very difficult to deal with all by itself but it only makes matters worse when some fundie throws out irrational mumbo jumbo to try and ease your emotions. I agree with you too. I still have issues with death and this alleged final state awaiting us all.. I curse the cosmos because I think existence is horribly tragic for most. An existence where we're subject to those who wield the most power and also happen to be the most evil. Our lives are affected adversely in ways we'll never know. What's justice? What's happiness? It's difficult for me to disconnect from it all. Always questioning the deeper things; trying to find meaning. I'm sure Pandora is out there somewhere... But I'd like to know for sure. Can beings truly reach some utopia while respecting each other and the planet on which they live? Ehh, now I'm digressing... Anyway, our pets are family and I'm truly sorry for your loss. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOHO Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Margee, I am very sorry to hear about your kitty. I'm sure your vet was thinking she was comforting you but, still, words can cut. I know. A big part of being around indoctrinated family members is being reminded of our immortality - on a daily basis. HUGS! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOHO Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 "But I'd like to know for sure. Can beings truly reach some utopia while respecting each other and the planet on which they live?" LifeCycle, obviously we cannot hold our breath here, but, at the same time, cannot stop hoping/trying. Best approach is to set a good example of piece, change the things we can, and surround ourselves with like-minded folks (like those here) and those we love. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted August 28, 2016 Share Posted August 28, 2016 Also, what would those people think/say about a deceased loved one who wasn't a Christian? It's one thing to talk about Hell in the abstract, but is anyone truly willing to believe that their wonderful, but unbelieving, grandparent/child/friend/uncle would be tormented at the decree of their "loving god" forever? Yes, they are so prepared. I've seen a mother in floods of tears because of the "danger" faced by her "unsaved" son. I've seen people describe how their "unsaved" siblings, parents or whatever are now lost to them forever. None of these can explain how heaven will be bliss for them knowing that their loved ones are suffering indescribably. Unfortunately, the logic of that point seems not to penetrate. Margee, there is no answer to the position you describe, and I am sorry that this is a continuing issue for you (though not surprised - it's not exactly an irrelevant consideration for me either). In terms of post-mortem survival, we may believe what we choose but 100% certainty either way is impossible. All I can say is that, whether there is such survival or not, after my own death the issue will no longer matter to me. And no, this should not detract from living in the here and now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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