How To Know You've Been Indoctrinated

[Geezer]

Religious indoctrination - My beliefs, teaching, & traditions are right everybody else is wrong.

 

Political indoctrination - Our beliefs & policies are right everybody else is wrong.

 

Anyone who disagrees is a sinner, racists, or just so stupid their point of view can't be taken seriously. And they are going to hell for sure.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I disagree, Geezer. Therefore, you're wrong.

[Storm]

I disagree, Geezer. Therefore, you're wrong.

I suspect that you will be hearing that you're a sinner, a racist and just so stupid your point of view can't be taken seriously.

 

and btw, you're going to hell.

[MOHO]

Geezer,

 

I see your point.

 

Indoctrination is indoctrination.

 

Both types of indoctrinators (is that a word?) love folks who refuse to think on their own.

 

    - MOHO (Mind Of His Own...DAMMIT!)

[TheRedneckProfessor]

 

I disagree, Geezer. Therefore, you're wrong.

I suspect that you will be hearing that you're a sinner, a racist and just so stupid your point of view can't be taken seriously.

 

and btw, you're going to hell.

 

I've already been to hell.  I told the devil I'd come back as soon as he got the furnace fixed.  

[LogicalFallacy]

Feminism: You are either a feminist or a sexist.

 

Me: I am not a feminist, but I believe in equality.

 

Feminist: You sexist, misogynistic, bigoted, Cisgendered piece of crap. Check your privilege!

 

Me: So my views on equality don't count?

 

Feminist: No, You are a sexist, misogynistic, bigoted, Cisgendered piece of crap. Check your privilege!

 

Me: I can see a repetition forming here.

[rjn]

Feminism: You are either a feminist or a sexist.

 

Me: I am not a feminist, but I believe in equality.

 

Feminist: You sexist, misogynistic, bigoted, Cisgendered piece of crap. Check your privilege!

 

Me: So my views on equality don't count?

 

Feminist: No, You are a sexist, misogynistic, bigoted, Cisgendered piece of crap. Check your privilege!

 

Me: I can see a repetition forming here.

 

Tell them to stop assuming your gender. You might not feel like a CIS-man right there and then!

[LogicalFallacy]

Exactly - so ironic that part of their cries are about people assuming gender and labelling people.. then the hypocrites come up terms like white privilege and cisgender. Ummm so isn't that just applying labels to entire groups of society that you feel needs to be labelled? Two faced somewhat. And entire generations of uni graduates are coming out spouting this stuff. Mass indoctrination at play in real time.

[Lyra]

Where does this "feminists believe that being cisgendered is a bad thing" come from?

 

I've personally NEVER encountered someone who espouses those things in real life. I'm a moderate-liberal in a large progressive city, and hang out with lots of crunchy liberal friends, and consider myself a strong feminist in the sense that I reject gender role generalizations (like "she must want a white picket fence life just because she's a woman") and I value my independence and empowerment. But I also see everyone equally regardless of gender, I want everyone to be treated equally based on merit (not gender) in all areas of life, and I think that gender role expectations can be just as shitty for men as for women. Everyone else I know who claims to be feminist is like this as well.

 

Maybe "feminist" isn't the proper label and we should be using "egalitarian" instead. A lot of the feminists I know do focus on areas where women are still oppressed (like in cultures that are still religiously dominated) but none of them actually believe in putting men down and squashing them.

 

I also don't know anyone who goes around whining and ranting about cis-gendered people. I know a couple of trans acquaintances, and none of them do this.

 

The *ONLY* people who are sexist nutjobs--whether they're raging misogynists, or women who think all men are evil--who I've personally encountered in my life, I"ve seen them online, not in real life. That tells me that these people aren't getting out much, and are detached from reality, and that maybe we're looking at some online comments from weirdos on Tumblr and interpreting them to be a bigger population than they really are.

 

If you know someone who rants about "cis privelege" in real life, who are they?

[Geezer]

I think anyone who wears a label, any label, should at least be concerned about their ability to think & reason independently. Labels like Christian, fundamentalist, liberal, conservative, atheists, Republican, Democrat, etc. at least imply agreement with some group & their dogma.

 

Additionally, that group expects allegiance to their cause & stated objectives when someone wears their name. I am not aware of any such group or organization that I agree with enough to wear their name. That is not to say that I don't see value in some of these groups, or that I don't agree with at least some of their thinking & goals, but not enough to wear their label.

 

There are exceptions such as identifying myself as an American, a free thinker, non-religious, political independent, or even senior citizen. As long as the label doesn't put me in a box where group think & compliance is expected.

[Lyra]

^ I agree with that. That's a great way to put it.

[Fweethawt]

If you openly declare stories about talking snakes, magical fruit and people coming back from the dead as being factual -- that's a damn good indicator that you've been indoctrinated.

[Casey]

Oh for God's sake, Geezer, I've only ever been wrong once, but it turned out I was mistaken. That count as indoctrination?

 

Casey

[LogicalFallacy]

Where does this "feminists believe that being cisgendered is a bad thing" come from?

 

I've personally NEVER encountered someone who espouses those things in real life. I'm a moderate-liberal in a large progressive city, and hang out with lots of crunchy liberal friends, and consider myself a strong feminist in the sense that I reject gender role generalizations (like "she must want a white picket fence life just because she's a woman") and I value my independence and empowerment. But I also see everyone equally regardless of gender, I want everyone to be treated equally based on merit (not gender) in all areas of life, and I think that gender role expectations can be just as shitty for men as for women. Everyone else I know who claims to be feminist is like this as well.

 

Maybe "feminist" isn't the proper label and we should be using "egalitarian" instead. A lot of the feminists I know do focus on areas where women are still oppressed (like in cultures that are still religiously dominated) but none of them actually believe in putting men down and squashing them.

 

I also don't know anyone who goes around whining and ranting about cis-gendered people. I know a couple of trans acquaintances, and none of them do this.

 

The *ONLY* people who are sexist nutjobs--whether they're raging misogynists, or women who think all men are evil--who I've personally encountered in my life, I"ve seen them online, not in real life. That tells me that these people aren't getting out much, and are detached from reality, and that maybe we're looking at some online comments from weirdos on Tumblr and interpreting them to be a bigger population than they really are.

 

If you know someone who rants about "cis privelege" in real life, who are they?

 

Sorry, should have qualified my post - that was a hypothetical conversation with a ranting third wave feminist. No I'm lucky to have never met one. 

 

 

Admittedly most of my research (If you call it that) has been online watching you tube videos etc of 3rd wave feminists. Now these women are real, and they are getting support for their ideas, and some of them are pretty out there (The ideas). Again I have to qualify and say I have no idea as to what extent the general population thinks like this, but the kind of language they are using is starting to get picked up by news outlets and politics. We had a rant in the online news here a few weeks ago. 

 

I guess my only real point was not to be a dissertation on feminism, but to mention that several forms of it are getting to be very similar to religion (So factors like can't criticize it, must follow the doctrine, trying to enforce ideas on the wider public etc.) There was a good article I read on the similarities but can't find it. These groups could be real fringe groups though, but they certainly have a strong online presence.

[RedStar]

I guess my only real point was not to be a dissertation on feminism, but to mention that several forms of it are getting to be very similar to religion (So factors like can't criticize it, must follow the doctrine, trying to enforce ideas on the wider public etc.) There was a good article I read on the similarities but can't find it. These groups could be real fringe groups though, but they certainly have a strong online presence.

I've noticed that too with the more out there people. I'm all for equality but it's becoming popular to throw the presumption of innocence out the window when someone is accused of any kind of abuse and I can't get on board with that. Take the claim seriously and investigate thoroughly without treating the accuser like crap? Absolutely. Automatically assume guilt just because a claim has been made? Can't do it.

[Geezer]

 

I guess my only real point was not to be a dissertation on feminism, but to mention that several forms of it are getting to be very similar to religion (So factors like can't criticize it, must follow the doctrine, trying to enforce ideas on the wider public etc.) There was a good article I read on the similarities but can't find it. These groups could be real fringe groups though, but they certainly have a strong online presence.

I've noticed that too with the more out there people. I'm all for equality but it's becoming popular to throw the presumption of innocence out the window when someone is accused of any kind of abuse and I can't get on board with that. Take the claim seriously and investigate thoroughly without treating the accuser like crap? Absolutely. Automatically assume guilt just because a claim has been made? Can't do it.

Even being a liberal won't protect you. If you become a target your fellow liberals will destroy you or at least try to. Liberals have no qualms when it comes to eating their own. There is no such thing as a safe zone if you become a target of the PC police.

[RedStar]

Even being a liberal won't protect you. If you become a target your fellow liberals will destroy you or at least try to. Liberals have no qualms when it comes to eating their own. There is no such thing as a safe zone if you become a target of the PC police.

Unfortunately that's true. Some people simply can't handle hearing things they don't like. Having sacred cows that can't be questioned is never a good thing but some people don't want to hear that. What they can't do is silence the people who are honest enough to be open to all possibilities even though some will try.

[Lilith666]

LogicalFallacy: Tell the feminist you're genderfluid. Yesterday you were a woman, today you're a man and tomorrow you might be a woman again, so if you run into her again she had better use your pronouns or you're calling her out.