"strange Are The Ways Of God." But Not Really, If All Of Them Are Blind Alleys.

[Steven14]

Hello everyone, I'm Stefan and I add my story to the bunch.

I started going to a Orthodox church kind of pre-school when I was about 5 or 6. And was a firm christian since. Until about two years ago, when I hit a dead end. The best way to describe it is that you can only go so far with ,,Strange are god's ways" if all of those roads lead to a dead end. Reason being my family situation. I have an autistic brother, 3 y younger than me( I'm 22). My mother and father are divorced (thank Fortuna, it was a hellish family before that), and are both very religious. Long story short - they lead and have led pathetic lives because of their ignorance, which mainly stems from the systematic extermination of the intellectual elite by Josip Broz Tito when he came to power in the country, kind of a small version of the Spanish "White terror".
Anyway, there is very slim possibility that they will ever understand that mythologies are not real, including the Christian savior one. And I am very much urged to wake them up, because they suffer very much from living in a twisted version of reality (maybe suffer is a too strong of a word, but their lives have such low quality). And it hurts me that I can't help those I love. Stupid biology making us think of our parents, what ever the kind of persons they are, as inevitably important.

And this affects my brother also, and I'm still trying to find ways to get over it. Because, my mother is so "persistent" in not using her brain, that everything I try to make my brother learn, for example taking a shower on his own, she inhibits. Because if I do it for a few times, she agrees that that is a good idea and does it for a few times and then just stops. She's so lazy and inconsistent and oh my lord ignorant to the bone. You could have a conversation with her today about, for example, the importance of him being able to independently do as much things as possible, and discuss a strategy and agree on implementing a certain one, and she would just carry on with the old way the very next day, like you didn't have the conversation at all! And she is a medical doctor, which is baffling for me!
So I'm not so hurt or struck by their religiousness as a I am by the fact that my brother will have a life of a way less quality than he would have if his parents were rational, or just a bit more rational.

I have other lovely circumstances at the moment also. I have basically no friends, because I left my old “company” because they will probably be teenagers for the rest of their lives. They like to talk about two things basically - how funny was something that happened when they got drunk, and computer games. And I really tried - but. I. Will. Die. Of. Boredom. If. I. Hear. Just. One. More. Conversation. Like. That.
Because, if you went out with them one night, there is basically no need to do it again because they will just repeat the god damn conversation every night if you know what I mean.
No girlfriend, I had one, but that's a long story.

Now, when it comes to relationships, the thing is that I don't want to pull anyone in into this shitty situation I'm in.
I'm a university student, I have awesome grades, but I still struggle coping with the reality of my situation, but I'm still trying different approaches. It's like a strange prison, with people being your bars. A solitary, because I have no one. Which would be impossible to bear if there wasn't a hope in the future. I plan to go abroad, to Norway, but that's four years ahead, and that's just too much time to spend in a solitary.

I have tried everything from Buddhism to psychology, which, like most "sciences about man" explains everything - and solves nothing! Because no theory can replace human beings. Believe me, I have written up to 900 A4 pages, and gone through a looot of trial and error with many theories and believe me when I say that I was thorough, persistent and creative.

The way I kept hitting a dead end was that I thought about how much has my knowing of English altered my life, and how much more quality does my perspective of life have in comparison to theirs. But they didn't have from whence to hear anything like that optimism of Enlightenment. All they had was their shitty parents and shitty surroundings. So I asked myself, why is this so?
 

I knew pretty well to say that they always tried to be the best they could. My father studied geology but his parents were little brats in suits of adults, and were careless with money so he had to drop out and work on the flea market, something to do with movies on VHS, pirates arrr that sort of thing. And their parents, I remember made some remark that they were like Del boy and Rodney! They found it f*cking amusing. So immature. My mother went to yoga, tried Transcendental meditation (but she quickly realized that it was a fraud, luckily) read Scot Peck and his "Path less traveled by" and all those life coachy stuff when she was young, and really dug for the truth with both her arms and legs. She had bad parents too. They both (my parents) thought that the reason they suffered so much in life was that, that they weren't involved in Christianity, and that was in accord with the propaganda of the Serbian orthodox church that bad things happened because we turned our backs on god, referring to the communist period (if you didn't know, communism thinks religion is an opium for the people, and bans it. But communism still has way more flaws than advantages as you already know, and see by comparing just the aftermath of it reflected in the difference of prosperity and culture between eastern and western Europe.)
But, they both are about 50 years old now, live alone, with no real friends, and unhappy. They fail to ask the question "God, why is my life shit for fifty years now?". A question I didn't fail to ask for them. Why did they deserve it? Did they not try their best, I know they did? If it was "given" to them, this kind of life, to enable them to learn something, why wouldn't this god entity help them realize it sooner? Or in a another way? And other questions similar to those. After concluding that the only way that a god could exist was if he was a sadist who would make someone suffer more-less continuously for fifty years, throwing them in many horrible situations (that would take too long to write and would disturb you, for which I have no good reason to) in spite of them trying their best with everything they had and could do in those moments and circumstances.
This didn't agree with the idea of god in the christian mythology - so it was bye-bye forever.

 

 

PS I really don't like the term atheist. That's like calling black people ,,non-whites"! Like the "normal" thing is to be a theist. I would prefer the term humanist, when it comes to these "life philosophy stuff" but not in the conventional meaning, but in the meaning that I think that there is a possibility for people to do a lot of things and that that is very inspirational. I know this may seem whiny, and why should I care, but it bugs me that someone would tie their identity to a negation of something instead of a affirmation of something.

There are bound to be mistakes in grammar as I haven't written in English for a long time and I apologize for this.

Very grateful to whoever started this website.
Cheers.

[Steven14]

Okaayy, I don't know why the title of the topic got all crazy with capital cases, sorry for that.

[LogicalFallacy]

Welcome to Ex-C Steven, glad you found us. I am a recent member myself and struggling with issues, as are many of us.

 

Your story shows how damaging blind faith in religion can be. I say religion instead of god because lets face it no one really has blind faith in god... any god.

 

I hope you find within yourself the strength to carry on and stay true to yourself. And remember the people here at ExC are only a keyboard away if you need to talk about anything.

 

LogicalFallacy

[yunea]

Welcome to the forum Stefan. Don't worry about the capitals in the title, the website does them automatically and sometimes it doesn't go right. 

 

Thanks for sharing your story. Yeah, the whole 'everything is going to god's plan' is troublesome. I know how it's like seeing some people suffer so much despite them being believers and really not meaning ill on anyone. How is that supposed to glorify god? Mysterious indeed.

 

I really like the way you say god's ways are dead ends. It translates very well to my native tongue (for us, 'way' is said with the same word for 'road') and I'm going to start using it.

[rjn]

Welcome to Ex-C Stefan! It's always good to see another European here, we're outnumbered by the Americans 10:1 at the very least

[MOHO]

Is it Seven or Stefan?

 

Anyway, welcome to Ex-C.

 

I'm sorry that you feel so alone and that the only "recent" einteraction with "friends" was so unfulilling.

 

You have friends here, though, so don't feel so alone.

[LogicalFallacy]

Welcome to Ex-C Stefan! It's always good to see another European here, we're outnumbered by the Americans 10:1 at the very least

There's a very good reason for that - have you seen the % of people in the US who are Christians compared to other parts of the world? Therefore we can expect that a greater number of Ex-C will be from the US... lardy help us! We're doomed!

 

 

What MOHO said. At the very least you have us here - which is far more than an atheist had 20 years ago.

[Margee]

Welcome to Ex-C Stefan. I am so glad you found us. Keep posting and reading. You will never have to feel alone on this site. We understand everything you might be going through. 

 

(hug)

[TABA]

Welcome Steven! Nice to have a member from Serbia. I spent a few months in your part of the world (Croatia and Bosnia) way back in 1997. Unfortunately in those days visiting Serbia was not an option... I did learn one phrase of your native tongue that has stayed with me: Daj mi pivo!

 

You really are among friends here, so I'm glad you found us. Just from reading your first post, I feel pretty sure you're going to be fine. You've done more thinking for yourself in your young life than many people do in many decades of life. That will serve you very well in life. Be thankful that we live in a time when ideas flow freely and the ability to travel to experience other cultures is easier than ever! I know it's not easy for you, and there are many frustrations, but you have shown you've got what it takes to live a meaningful and happy life.

 

I look forward to hearing more from you. You will get plenty of support here.

 

Bye for now

TABA

[rjn]

 

Welcome to Ex-C Stefan! It's always good to see another European here, we're outnumbered by the Americans 10:1 at the very least

There's a very good reason for that - have you seen the % of people in the US who are Christians compared to other parts of the world? Therefore we can expect that a greater number of Ex-C will be from the US... lardy help us! We're doomed!

 

 

What MOHO said. At the very least you have us here - which is far more than an atheist had 20 years ago.

 

 

Of course I am aware of this. Also keep in mind that Christianity in Europe is usually of the more liberal ("lukewarm") kind, or - if Conservative - of the more traditional ilk, rather than Evangelical. The kind of fundamentalism found among American Evangelists are uncommon even among Conservatives believers and is rather unusual outside of the US.

[Steven14]

Logical fallacy -
Interesting point. My version of Christianity was that I never really thought that the church was all that what it said it is. I thought that one same god manifested differently in different parts of the world, because he wanted to adapt ''his story'' to the specific cultures so that they would be able to understand ''him'' in a way that corresponded to the degree of development of that particular people in that particular point in history/evolution. Neat explanation, eh?

But I think that thinking that there is a Magical Grandpa up there, or a Divine energy (which would be basically the same thing,just in a scientific language) inevitably determines some thoughts or attitudes towards your life and that of other life forms. For example, imagine that everyone knew that – no, humans are not different from other life forms in that that they have an imaginary friend and a rainbow world to go to after they cease to be operational. That they decay and that's it, like all other life forms. I firmly believe that a big number of people would be less...lazy is the word? They would appreciate life more and would like to leave the world as a better place after their life ends. Because you get to exist o n l y o n c e.

 

Maayybe I got a little off topic there, considering your reply, but I wanted to share this opinion also.

 

I think that blind faith does exist. It's the people who are afraid to challenge any authority, including imaginary ones!

Now that is a relevant answer.

And ,,What MOHO said. At the very least you have us here - which is far more than an atheist had 20 years ago.''
- I couldn't agree more.

 

 

Yunea-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia
Apophenia is something which is absolutely essential to the workings of a modern mythology, or a religion as we like to call it. If more people knew about this natural tendency of the brain, the chances of deconversion would be higher. And it is critical for the ''Gods ways'' saying.

 

Whats your native tongue? I study languages, Norwegian actually, but I speak a bit German too, so I'm interested.

 

 

Rjn –
I think that this concept of a European is very interesting, and usually used by the Americans, for which Europe is ''a distant mysterious land''. Because- Europeans are so different from each other and have such different cultures depending on the nation they're from. Or maybe I'm wrong? I really can't tell, I haven't traveled that much, yet!

Anyway, what I wanted to say is that – I was pleasantly surprised when you said ''fellow European''. One of the advantages of globalization.

 

About the lukewarm Christians – I think that the ''thing'' that enables that lukewarm Christianity is the comfort of living in the first world. If they spent a year or two in one of the ''Cardboard cities'' of India for example, they would quickly realize that justice is just an idea, a fruit of our imagination. Which ,of course, can be made real, but only by the society in question.

 

moho –
Stefan, but use the version you prefer, its the same name basically just pronounced and spelled a bit differently.

 

ThereAndBackAgain -

Thank you for such a meaningful reply! I bet that proved to be useful phrase indeed.

 

Everyone -

Thank you for your replies, support, kind words and hugs! It was such a good feeling to read them, as you all probably already know from your own experience.

I like the idea to write out as much of my opinions as I like and communicate with thoughts of others on this website because , as you can see, I really like to cast light on different aspects of reality, and I will probably write much more than is relevant to the reply hah. Cause maybe it will have an impact on the quality of my lifetime, and some of others as well.

 

Btw this is my first forum so I'm new to all of this.

Thank y'all.

 

 

[James23]

Welcome Stephan. You made a difficult but ultimately good choice in leaving Christian mythology behind you.

[Steven14]

Thx James.

[rjn]

About the lukewarm Christians – I think that the ''thing'' that enables that lukewarm Christianity is the comfort of living in the first world. If they spent a year or two in one of the ''Cardboard cities'' of India for example, they would quickly realize that justice is just an idea, a fruit of our imagination. Which ,of course, can be made real, but only by the society in question.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by this. That first world people are more lukewarm because of material wealth? Sure, ignorance tends to thrive where there's poverty, but I don't think it's that black and white. American Evangelicals are often rather well off, but that doesn't stop them from being full-blown fanatics.

[Steven14]

I mean that thinking that the world is governed by the christian god means thinking that it is governed by an entity that is just and that everything has a reason why it is like it is. And that this is easier to believe in a society where there isn't so much injustice like in some other societies.

But some may ask ''Well, why are there a lot more religious people in poor societies of the East?''

I think that is because rational thought and logic is more emphasized in the European/Western culture, thanks to the Ancient Greeks. And, given this, a man from our culture has a higher possibility of figuring the fraud out.

 

And I couldn't agree more that - rarely is something black and white, ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_(psychology)). So there are certainly irreligious people in these societies too. I hope that this makes my reply a bit clearer.

PS A very useful article on Cognitive distortions, where Black or White thinking is just one of them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_distortion

[Steven14]

Welcome Steven! Nice to have a member from Serbia. I spent a few months in your part of the world (Croatia and Bosnia) way back in 1997. Unfortunately in those days visiting Serbia was not an option... I did learn one phrase of your native tongue that has stayed with me: Daj mi pivo!

 

You really are among friends here, so I'm glad you found us. Just from reading your first post, I feel pretty sure you're going to be fine. You've done more thinking for yourself in your young life than many people do in many decades of life. That will serve you very well in life. Be thankful that we live in a time when ideas flow freely and the ability to travel to experience other cultures is easier than ever! I know it's not easy for you, and there are many frustrations, but you have shown you've got what it takes to live a meaningful and happy life.

 

I look forward to hearing more from you. You will get plenty of support here.

 

Bye for now

TABA

 

Welcome to Ex-C Stefan. I am so glad you found us. Keep posting and reading. You will never have to feel alone on this site. We understand everything you might be going through. 

 

(hug)

 

 

Welcome to Ex-C Stefan! It's always good to see another European here, we're outnumbered by the Americans 10:1 at the very least

There's a very good reason for that - have you seen the % of people in the US who are Christians compared to other parts of the world? Therefore we can expect that a greater number of Ex-C will be from the US... lardy help us! We're doomed!

 

 

What MOHO said. At the very least you have us here - which is far more than an atheist had 20 years ago.

 

 

Is it Seven or Stefan?

 

Anyway, welcome to Ex-C.

 

I'm sorry that you feel so alone and that the only "recent" einteraction with "friends" was so unfulilling.

 

You have friends here, though, so don't feel so alone.

 

Welcome to the forum Stefan. Don't worry about the capitals in the title, the website does them automatically and sometimes it doesn't go right. 

 

Thanks for sharing your story. Yeah, the whole 'everything is going to god's plan' is troublesome. I know how it's like seeing some people suffer so much despite them being believers and really not meaning ill on anyone. How is that supposed to glorify god? Mysterious indeed.

 

I really like the way you say god's ways are dead ends. It translates very well to my native tongue (for us, 'way' is said with the same word for 'road') and I'm going to start using it.

 

 

 

About the lukewarm Christians – I think that the ''thing'' that enables that lukewarm Christianity is the comfort of living in the first world. If they spent a year or two in one of the ''Cardboard cities'' of India for example, they would quickly realize that justice is just an idea, a fruit of our imagination. Which ,of course, can be made real, but only by the society in question.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by this. That first world people are more lukewarm because of material wealth? Sure, ignorance tends to thrive where there's poverty, but I don't think it's that black and white. American Evangelicals are often rather well off, but that doesn't stop them from being full-blown fanatics.

 

 

 

I just realised that all of you wouldn't know that I answered your replies cause I haven't used the quote button, that's all.

[yunea]

Ah, I pm'd you

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Drago mi je.

[Guest]

Welcome, Stefan! I, too, have an autistic brother, though he is much more high-functioning than yours. It's wonderful to see you here, and I'm so glad you left toxic religion behind!