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Goodbye Jesus

On Telling Friends/family/church


Voice

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I've been reading a few testimonies and have seen quite a few posts about coming out. 

I've noticed that a lot of new de-converts feel it's important to tell friends and family.

 

Please consider that you don't have to do this. There are ways around it, things you can say and do to not be a christian and to think for yourself while not giving ciristians anything to work with.

If you want to be cut off, then tell them out right.

 

Why do you feel it's important to tell christians what you're thinking? What do you owe them? Why should they have to know?

 

I understand some of you deal with the kinds of christians who deny you privacy of any kind and will drill you and drill you and drill you without mercy. To that I'm not really qualified to say anything. Your only choice might be to just get the hell out of there and take the judgement, build a new life without them. That's your call. But even still, why would you have to tell them anything? What good would it do for either you or them?

What I'm trying to say is that you may be able to think of ways to just evade. A gradual distancing may be a better approach.

 

I get that this will only apply to some of you.

 

To those between the ages of 17 and 23, you need to know that in Western culture, it's physiologically and emotionally normal to separate from your parents at this age. It's difficult to see, but this natural part of your maturation process is confused by christianity and your coming out of that. You're wanting to think that it's just about christianity. It is about christianity, but it's more than that. It's about becoming an adult, finding and establishing your place in society.

 

The question remains, why do you feel it's so important to tell the christians anything at all?

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Perhaps it is because they are humans first and theists second.  Human relationships are best maintained with honesty and integrity.

 

I agree with your observation of the frequent confusion about 17 to 23 year old folks "leaving the fold".  Religion often has little to do with it.

 

Holistically, many (most?  nearly all?) of those young people were indoctrinated with religious dogma for years, often starting as such young ages as three or four.  It is not surprising that some will reject that indoctrination once their brains become more fully developed and they have the opportunity, for the first time, to rationally think about the religious nonsense that has been forced into their brains for nearly all of their life, usually by trusted adults, such as parents and other adults.

 

Then there's the financial and life support issue.  Many adults who are used to controlling their offspring using religious dogma and ritual will use their financial power to attempt further control if the offspring begins to reject the religious elements.  It's a cheap, selfish and harmful tactic, but often quite effective.

 

Each situation is case by case.  There is no one-size-fits-all answer.

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The question remains, why do you feel it's so important to tell the christians anything at all?

Personally, honesty, integrity and truth would be the main driving factors behind my telling. The secondary reason is that because of my situation it's impossible to live life as a non believer without them realising so.

 

So to the primary reasons, I could continue going to church, having family meetings, agreeing with them on the outside... essentially deceive them into thinking I am one of them when I'm not. But that makes me no better than the god of the bible who also appears to use deception. He creates a world in which curious intelligent thinkers can be lead to believe that a god is not required for life, then judges them for it. Did I mention he also gave those people the very brains that would be the cause of them being judged?

 

No, I'm not going to be an arsehole like that. My family at least deserve to know the truth about me, so that they know me for who I am, not who I make them think that I am.

 

 

I agree with sdelsolray - each situation is different. Each person is different. And anyone who feels its important that they tell family and friends finds it important for different reasons.

 

Regards to gradual distancing... I agree on a gradual process if the situation warrants. This can make the inevitable realisation or telling that you are a non believer somewhat easier to take... in theory. I am currently testing this theory. You will receive real life real time updates. smile.png

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Honesty and integrity are important, and people do deserve respect no matter what they believe.

And in marriage I can understand why it would be important to share, if you want intimacy. My brother more or less came out and shared with his christian wife. She hated it, but he did it well. He just told her how he felt about things, sensibly, practically, and stood his ground. They're still together. He just doesn't participate in any cliched christian behavior or go to church, and he shares with her maintaining the household functionality with good reasoning and good sense. 

 

But speaking in general, for those who have left home and are on their own.

Parents and extended family? Friends? Is it all about them? What you feel THEY should have? Deserve? Do others deserve your beliefs? Why?

Why should others deserve to know what you believe? What you believe is yours. 

 

Could giving out your personal beliefs be giving away your power? Giving others your power?

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Note all answers only relate to my personal situation, and may be worthless for someone else or to try and get a general gauge on the topic.

 

But speaking in general, for those who have left home and are on their own.

Parents and extended family? Friends?

- Is it all about them?

 

No, it's more about me. I wish to preserve a cordial relationship. I know if I go bat shit crazy god does not exist and you guys are nuts that is going to ruin the relationship.

Some differing points I see about relationships:

Mine is a great family/friends relationship. We get on very well, a very tight nit bunch. Therefore there is great incentive for me to try and preserve this.

Now lets say the relationship was meh, or even toxic. In that case, I wouldn't give a rats backside about what they thought, and would probably just say I'm out, not coming back to church. Laterz!

 

 

What you feel THEY should have? Deserve?

I think they should have the truth about what I believe or rather my non belief. Do they deserve it? Yes, I think so. I have been a christian from birth, my parents have been good to me, we have a great relationship and this (my non belief) is going to affect them very emotionally.  (The flipside here is that just because they are my parents and were good etc doesn't mean I owe them anything - it  can be considered that it was their duty to be good. And yes I am a Christian because I was raised the be - however once I became old enough I did choose Christianity, albeit in hindsight with lack of true understanding... but that's life. While true this doesn't get to the heart of why I think it is important to let my family/friends know of my non belief.)

 

Do others deserve your beliefs? Why?

Unsure how to answer this one. Others? Like outside the close relationship ones I'm talking about? No, only a very few select people in this world deserve to know what I believe or don't believe and the reasons for that.

 

Why should others deserve to know what you believe? What you believe is yours. 

Others as in non close family/friends sure. Close family and fiends who think that you believe what they do, they deserve to know. To not let them know is to intentionally deceive which runs opposite to my primary reason of truth, integrity, and honesty. Yes, what I believe is mine, however I believe that humanity should function better if we all know what people believe. This should help prevent a sort of social deception.

 

Could giving out your personal beliefs be giving away your power? Giving others your power?

Oooohhh, um... no? Not sure how (in my case) I'd be giving anyone power. If anything I am taking control of my own beliefs etc. I know why I believe or don't believe. If I was say a teen reliant upon my parents, then yes telling them is giving them great power over me. However the opening premise was for those who have left home and are out on their own i.e. independent.

 

Note for anyone dependent upon anyone they might be considering telling about their beliefs, think carefully about how it will impact you.

 

One thing has come up every time this topic is posted and that is every person is different and every situation is different. We can lay out some general guidelines but they have to be tailored to suit you and your situation. 

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For me it's very simple. What kind of life are you having if you have to fake belief in every aspect of your life when you know it's bullshit? It seems to me that you aren't used to fundy xtians and churches where faking faith means you will be going to church multiple times per week, be elected into church leadership roles and have to give up money, freedom and decisions such as how many children you get. Would you also suggest a gay person fakes being straight to avoid conflict in the same situation? You only live once! Why live a lie?

 

Life isn't always peaceful or even fair. It is what it is.

 

If you are part of a church that barely sacrifices for God, this suggestion might work but then it might also not be necessary. My family is part of a very fundy church but when I was honest and respectful with them about deconverting we kept our relationships. It's not perfect but when is life perfect anyway?

 

Ymmv but I think the more of us that come out, the better for future generations of unbelievers. What will you ask your kids to do? Fake it for 80 years? Someone has to break the cycle. At some point someone has to rip the bandaid of false teachings off. And it's always going to hurt at least a little.

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But speaking in general, for those who have left home and are on their own.

Parents and extended family? Friends? Is it all about them? What you feel THEY should have? Deserve? Do others deserve your beliefs? Why?

 

 I'm sure I would tell my wife and probably anyone else that lived in my house if I deconverted (if they were rabid Christians. It may result in disaster but so be it). People outside my home though, it's probably not that important unless they asked me why I wasn't going to church anymore. I dont believe I've told anyone who knew me as a Christian, point blank, that I am no longer a Christian.  It's none of their business. And no, I have never been surrounded by rabid Christianity as other people have. 

 

Why should others deserve to know what you believe? What you believe is yours. 

 

Outside of my immediate family it really isn't anyone's business. It should be as taboo as asking someone off the street about their sex life.

 

Could giving out your personal beliefs be giving away your power? Giving others your power?

 

Not in my situation as an adult in charge of myself. But once again, there's no religious people in my house.

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For me it's very simple. What kind of life are you having if you have to fake belief in every aspect of your life when you know it's bullshit? It seems to me that you aren't used to fundy xtians and churches where faking faith means you will be going to church multiple times per week, be elected into church leadership roles and have to give up money, freedom and decisions such as how many children you get. Would you also suggest a gay person fakes being straight to avoid conflict in the same situation? You only live once! Why live a lie?

Brilliant, my thoughts exactly. And yeah, just living and keeping beliefs a secret is no option with Fundies unless you are willing to give up money and freedom.

 

 

Life isn't always peaceful or even fair. It is what it is.

To paraphrase some famous atheist "The universe doesn't give a shit about you or being fair"

 

If you are part of a church that barely sacrifices for God, this suggestion might work but then it might also not be necessary. My family is part of a very fundy church but when I was honest and respectful with them about deconverting we kept our relationships. It's not perfect but when is life perfect anyway?

Yes some churches are so liberal that there is little difference in behaviour from anyone else. You don't turn up or do something different they don't bat an eyelid. With Fundy church's any change or difference is noticed. Good to hear that your family elationships remained.

 

Ymmv but I think the more of us that come out, the better for future generations of unbelievers. What will you ask your kids to do? Fake it for 80 years? Someone has to break the cycle. At some point someone has to rip the bandaid of false

teachings off. And it's always going to hurt at least a little.

Totally this. It's a great point, and we are at the front of the movement which means it's gonna hurt us the hardest. No pain, no gain.

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When coming out of a situation where 100% of your social network/family is fundamentalist, that's a dilemma of its own. The choices you're laying out are to either fake it, or come out and be crucified. There is a third choice, (one many of you don't consider to be a choice because of bonds with kids, or because of finance or something else important like that), which is to have an escape route planned, then come out and get away at lightning speed. This would probably be looked as a coward's way out. It could be looked at as survival also.

There's honesty and integrity, but fundies don't understand or appreciate or respect that. It's like offering pearls to swine. Fundies have no love to offer anyone but their own kind. They show no mercy.

I understand what you're saying, about life not being fair.

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Voice,

 

I think you hit the nail square on the head here. It is, in some cases, a mater of survival. Literaly!

 

Mrs MOHO is convinced that satan is reponsible for all that she personally feels is wrong with the world. You know - things like speaking one's mind even if what you say is not necessarily flattering to xianity. Or being born gay and not feeling guilty about it.

 

There is, at play here, a verbaly violent atmosphere that, at any point I fear, could become actaully violent. So, yes, an escape plan is prudent. I am very adapt at holding my opinion but, this fundy crap is so over-the-top screwy, that I will experience diarrhea of the mouth some day. That will NOT be pretty or result in anything healthy for old MOHO.

 

Different ways of dealing with the fundy issue and most of us would very much like to give each fundy a piece of our mind until fundyism, and all religious BS, no longer impacts our lives. But, for some of us, that simply is not safe. 

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Not trying to be competitive MOHO, but Mrs MOHO sounds like a fairly standard fundy! biggrin.png

 

My group believes that demons that look like monkeys can be seen sitting on peoples shoulders by spiritual people. (Um no - those people are just suffering from things like hallucinations, Schizophrenia, etc.) Also they believe that in another dimension angels and demons are living our lives in a kind of spiritual parallel. Example, you see me typing an anti god response on a forum, but in the spiritual world it is a demon attacking angles etc.

 

Can Mrs MOHO compete?

 

On a serious note, how many visions, prophesies etc etc are the result of some mental disorder? A man stands up, proclaims he has seen calamity, or that they should kill x tribe etc and the people have listened and followed? Countless billions.

 

What is sad is that today with medical advances we know when someone says I can see a monkey demon sitting on your shoulder you know they are either hallucinating or have mental disorder. Does that stop masses TODAY believing that its real? No. My family believes it.

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To be honest I think when I have it is because I have made good friends in the past and just to appear as though you've suddenly disappeared off the face of the Earth without giving them some idea as to why (I have not been to church or been in a great deal of contact with many of my old Christian friends) doesn't seem too fair. That said, I have not told everyone and news doesn't seem to have gotten around. I think a lot of people just thought i was troubled like I have been in the past, over various things. Some people have been not too bad about it, not everyone believes it, some have been pretty awkward. I don't really want to go too full on with some people as I don't know how they will react. Best just to tell the people you need to tell and leave it at that, I'd say, though this feels like there is no closure.

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