Storm Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 I enjoy not being bound by Christianity. I enjoy the freedom of thinking for myself, despite the fact that sifting through a lot of stuff to develop my own worldview can be difficult at times and certainly cumbersome to say the least. I find myself oscillating back and forth between strong atheism and just simple humanity (if you will), struggling to find the right balance in my life of appropriate spirituality and atheism. I am defining spirituality loosely, simply admitting that I don't know how or why, but I feel as though we are connected to everything in ways that we cannot comprehend. Too many things happen that, while I cannot ascribe them to any deity, simply lead me to believe that there is something that connects us to the universe and each other. I freely admit that I am not educated on paganism or other spiritual "enlightenments", but I find myself not interested in exploring them either. I find myself wanting to be a well rounded person. Someone who is open to truth, no matter where it comes from. I want to not be put off by religion, but not be closed to other views. I value the insights of others, but I find myself tuning out things because they are attached to Christianity or religion. I want to not care about the source. I just want the nuggets of truth that may come from them. I used to espouse what I was taught while getting my B.S. degree: all truth is God's truth, no matter where it comes from. This adage is still true for me now, albeit in a different light: All truth is truth, no matter where it comes from. But I am finding that I am still having trouble not caring what the source is. I am still put off by religion. By Christianity. I am still bitter, angry, and aversive to religion. I do not like this about myself. I want to be free from this thinking. But, I cannot get away from it. Maybe the loss I have experienced has brought about this enmity towards anything religious, towards spirituality. Maybe I am not ready to make the leap yet. Maybe I am incapable of making the leap at this time. Life is complex. That is something I appreciate and loathe at the same time. Life teaches and corrects, but also fascinates and awes. It beats us and raises us up. It humbles us and empowers us. Life is beautiful. I am mostly just expressing some feelings I am going through. I am interested in anyone's thoughts or if they have experienced similar feelings/thoughts. Thanks for reading. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted October 5, 2016 Share Posted October 5, 2016 I dislike the word "truth". If I were to reformulate your words "all truth is truth, no matter were it comes from" it would be something like "all truth is relative to the person who holds it to be true". Of course, what I would have in view is not the objectively provable. Your aversion to religion answers to my aversion to Abrahamic monotheism. As you say, life is complex, but, in the end, it "does" none of the things you say. It is rather a question of what we do with life. And the issue of "spirituality", at its' most basic, may be nothing more than one of taking care of and seeking to improve our own psyche and character. Seen that way, how can you not be "spiritual"? Everything else is but a tool to that end - to use or reject as you see fit. Sorry, no time to be more coherent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted October 6, 2016 Author Share Posted October 6, 2016 I dislike the word "truth". If I were to reformulate your words "all truth is truth, no matter were it comes from" it would be something like "all truth is relative to the person who holds it to be true". I think I see where you're going with this, and I agree to a point. There are truths that are personal and then there are actual truths that exist outside the personal (i.e. gravity). I was mostly speaking in generalities. And the issue of "spirituality", at its' most basic, may be nothing more than one of taking care of and seeking to improve our own psyche and character. Seen that way, how can you not be "spiritual"? Everything else is but a tool to that end - to use or reject as you see fit. This was helpful. Thanks for sharing it. It doesn't change how i feel, but it is a good expression of spirituality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekw Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 I suppose we can see it as some sort of "balancing act" between our humanity and religion, between the spiritual and the material. But as I see it is more our labelling that creates the problem - identifying some things as "religious" and others as secular and so on. Reality just IS. Reality is the only revelation. Each moment is the only teacher. Why seek the source to identify and label it? It comes down to freedom of mind and not being afraid. If some idiot of a TV evangelist just happens to say something apt ( difficult to imagine but maybe possible ) why knock it or reject it. Its just good to have a bxxxxxxt detector built into the mind. Empathy, compassion, even love itself, have no need to be accompanied by any belief system. Maybe just having a degree of vulnerability - and admitting it - is more important than any "belief" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted October 17, 2016 Author Share Posted October 17, 2016 Maybe just having a degree of vulnerability - and admitting it - is more important than any "belief" ? I agree completely. Labels are convenient and make things easy to identify, however they also determine the size of the box that we put everything into. Maybe I have spent more time determining what I think is spirituality and religion than I have just living life and taking things as I go. I certainly long for that ability. I suspect that practice makes perfect. Maybe I will give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekw Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Storm, as I see it vulnerability implies honesty. The OP here started with not wanting to be bound ( by Christianity ) but a lot of things bind us that almost inevitably lead on from not being honest with ourselves. Some sort of idea of what being "free" or truly "spiritual" means - that persona can bind us and we stop being honest. Not admitting any fear, nor wanting to acknowledge our cheap little spites and hatreds. I think we can be afraid of truth, afraid of fear - everything slides one step away from reality itself. I've found that we can SEE the fear ( and everything else ) without reacting to it. Just SEE it, acknowledge it, and move on. As I understand it its about self acceptance - which paradoxically is the catalyst of genuine transformation. Tragically, pure acceptance of who we truly are can be found at the heart of Christianity but its corrupted by so much nonsense and 2000 years of unacknowledged fear of existence. And pure acceptance of ourselves, warts and all, is the only basis I have found for acceptance of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 I think for me I am reacting to how I feel about the fact that I got duped into believing something for so long. I understand that I couldn't have known since I was indoctrinated and wasn't looking for an out. There is certainly fear in touching the "spiritual" side of life. I agree that there does need to be some vulnerability. But I find my fear of possibly getting duped again is real and makes me not want to have anything to do with spirituality. I hate that. Nothing i am feeling is unnatural, and is totally to be expected, but I hate that I feel this way. I envy Neil Carter and how he is able to play along the lines of religion and unbelief. I may be able to get there at some point, but I am not there yet. Maybe this is one of the frustrating things about not having a belief system where everything is all laid out and you don't really have to think about a lot of things in depth because they have already been "answered". In many ways, trying to figure it out on my own makes me vulnerable. I have to be open in my mind to things that I don't necessarily understand, to things that could potentially deceive me, but also open to things that remind me of the years of stupidity and perceived foolishness on my part in being a Christian. For many years, others thought for me in the realm of Christianity. Now I am trying to think for myself. That itself makes me vulnerable. That also scares me. For most of my life, Christianity gave me an identity. It gave me a sense of purpose and belonging. Now I don't feel like I have that. I feel alone. I feel directionless at times. These feelings come and go. But they are there. I do find that things have changed for the better now that i am no longer a Christian. I love more deeply and value things I took for granted for so long. It certainly has been good to leave the faith, but it also comes with a lot of uncertainty and emptiness in regards to how I should act and behave and what I should think. Trying to figure it all out has certainly been a challenge I didn't expect. But I am working on it. Slowly and surely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted October 18, 2016 Super Moderator Share Posted October 18, 2016 Many sources purporting to offer "truth" must be suspect because there is an agenda behind it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted October 18, 2016 Author Share Posted October 18, 2016 Many sources purporting to offer "truth" must be suspect because there is an agenda behind it. This is why I hesitate to be vulnerable to certain "truths". The potential to fall into another trap is always there. Sometimes it is unavoidable, but I should try to avoid them as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derekw Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 storm, if you are a reader there are now quite a few books out there with titles like "Spirituality without God" which might give a bit of direction. Not read any myself so can't really recommend anything. If I understand you correctly it is a bit of a case of many intimations of spiritual "truth" seemingly leading to, or implying, a path back towards Christianity......which is now a no go area. I'm pretty well read in all the various Religions so I don't have that problem. Seeking pointers to any capacity for empathy, compassion, forgiveness - or whatever - I naturally relate to texts and teachings of all Faiths. Though I now instinctively favour the non-theistic texts, the word "God" no longer gives me the heebie jeebies! Stripped down to basics, for me the sheer fact that there is something rather than nothing implies that existence has meaning/significance. That I can think this implies again that I can in some sense live that significance, or "know" it. That ultimate reality could be blind random energy and "life" and consciousness pure accident and the product of chance, seems far less a possibility. That is not said as an argument to convince anyone, just saying how I see it. Seeking to understand that "significance", to LIVE it, can be an adventure that makes each moment precious. I choose to think that ultimately Reality is benign, even "love" - yes, that can be a cop out but it works for me and gives me the courage to look deeply into the suffering of the world ( and myself ) rather than trying to close my eyes to it. Anyway, all the best to you on your own path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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