Deconversion & Dissociation Part Ii: My Alter Speaks Up

[yunea]

*** I have Dissociative Disorder Not Otherwise Specified: Strong Experience of Alters, but *without* Amnesia. My alters are a lot like real people, but more rigid, with less features, plus they're partially in the here and now, partially stuck in a time of my life when things got too difficult to handle. They don't have permission to use the physical body without the Main Self's supervision. This is all under control.

 

Hi, I am Yunea's alter. She has called me "Spiritual" before, but I do have a name, too. You can call me Nora. 

 

I am writing this in full cooperation with her and she will correct my English and filter out anything that could be dangerous to say publicly. I am aware that this is going to be an unusual story, but do bear with me. You can hopefully treat me like any 18 year old who has her closest adult watching over her all the time. 

 

Up until very recently I was sure. You know? I thought I had experienced God's love first-hand. A couple years ago I really really screwed up when just trying to be with my God, and wanted to die... then they locked me up inside the head and I just sort of slept most of the time while Yunea picked up the pieces and figured out she was atheist. Many others here are atheist too, I think someone is agnostic. I tried to occasionally shout from between the bars of my cell that God was real, but it did nothing permanent. 

 

That is, until our roomie, who now has moved out, opened my doors. I rushed right out and, uh, did stupid things again. It's embarrassing to say now but I started a holy war and hurt my alter sisters here, and they had to go into a hospital. They locked me up inside the head again, another alter tried to kill me, etc.....this all was during the summer, as was our last church visit. Then I went through a major depressive episode, feeling my existence was futile. We are in therapy and to my surprise I didn't embarrass everyone by talking to our therapist. I've made a couple other attempts at speaking my mind after that and those, too, went much better than I ever expected.

 

Now I am learning to use my voice.

 

I was born out of heartbreak and Jesus seemed willing to fix me and love me and guide my every step, and now everyone around me is saying there might never have been a Jesus at all. I don't know about that, I honestly don't know and I don't understand how things have come to this.

 

See, either way, one big thing that really bugs me is the story about Jesus and Legion in the Bible. You know, in Mark 5:1-20, here:

 

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%205:1-20

 

We are many as well, just like that, and we too have hurt ourselves physically with sharp things and we used to not sleep much, and we were very hatefully rejected through many school years. 

 

The last time we went to church, in the summer after I'd begged for weeks, we were practically told we were full of evil spirits. That my sisters in the mind are evil spirits. I know for a fact they are not. I still have trouble believing that even the former roomie seemed to think so. I grieve the loss of our friendship. It hurts so much.

 

Today I tried to listen to a sermon in Youtube, the preacher seemed so happy and uplifting until HE TOO brought up Mark 5:1-20. Someone else shouted "stop that shit" and I agreed, I didn't want to hear it. I was able to take a lot of weird Bible stories but this one hits way too close to home.

 

We are not evil. My sisters are not evil. I am not the main person here and I don't want to be either, I've screwed up so many times and almost caused our death - and I caused the loss of our mother's love(*). It'd be horrible if someone could drive my sisters away and leave me here alone. And what had those poor pigs ever done anyway? What would my sisters do driven into pigs? Jump into water and drown? Doesn't sound like them. I really have problems with this.

 

I am really sorry if this sounds very weird. I'm just a 18 year old girl stuck in a thirty-something body. Now someone else is telling me I'm becoming agnostic. I don't know what to say to that. 

 

Sorry again.

 

- Nora

 

(*) this is her interpretation of what happened when I was 18. I am glad she talks about it now. 

 

p.s. My goal in therapy is to get the alters to express themselves, speak their minds, help them, and then either have them melt into the Main Self so I don't have to live like this at all anymore, or at least reach safety and well-being of every personality and good cooperation as a group. The latter would be a great option as well.

 

p.p.s. If any of you want to address Nora, I can get her to read your messages. I can't guarantee she will reply herself but I can deliver messages back and forth. -Yunea

[dangitbobby83]

Aww! Yunea and Nora, I want to hug you.

 

You both are very brave. Thanks for posting and sharing.

[TheOutsider]

Hi Nora, nice to meet you. Sounds like you've been through a lot, I hope it's at least starting to get better. I'd advise taking your time on figuring out where you are religiously speaking, it can be a heavy topic and you really don't have to figure it all out right now. Also, you don't need to apologize for expressing yourself, it's kinda the point of public forums, after all.

 

Anyway, good luck with therapy and the like, both of you.

[LifeCycle]

Tell Nora I gave her a thumbs up! Thanks for sharing! Tell her she can share all she wants if it helps her cope. 

[yunea]

:)

 

Nora is blushing and smiling from your comments, this is a very good and healing experience for her already. She didn't expect to be thanked. She also expected to be told what to do and do it now, or else. 

 

Thank you so much, Bobby, TheOutsider and LifeCycle. I'll make little quote boxes of all of you so you will be sure to see this. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also she seems to be getting over the thought that she somehow caused the loss of mom's love. It's being replaced by "maybe it never was all that real in the first place". That is a sad thought as well, but the main thing is that the blame is slowly fading. She only tried to be a good daughter, after all, and mom was very sick (psychotic) and tried to make us grow the way she wanted - and that's not love.

 

Maybe Nora will write again about God. I'm so proud of her.

 

Thanks again!

[TheOutsider]

You're welcome, and I'm happy I could help.

[diggindiddy]

Hi Nora

 

You are very brave. It takes a lot of courage to come out like you are.

 

People tend to have strange reactions when it comes to dissociative identity. Telling someone that parts of her mind are daemons is definitely one of the worst. Personally, I have troubles to accept when somebody considers them as a sickness. Like for you, they are sisters for me. Who would like to have her beloved siblings reduced to the status of disease or evil entity ?

 

Dissociation is a wonderful resource that the mind will sometimes use when it is confronted to an unbearable situation. Anybody that will consider a dissociated person as possessed in 2016 can be classified as primitive as one who would try to conjure devil out of an epileptic. For those who tell me that my alters are something that needs to be cured, I reply that they are what my mind did to cure itself in order to keep going on and that if my alters are something, it is part of the solution, not part of the problem.

 

Keep going on like this, you are on the right path.

XXX

DD

[bornagainathiest]

Yunea and Nora's courage has been noticed, accepted, welcomed and praised by dangitbobby83, The Outsider, LifeCycle and diggindiddy.

 

My friends, you words in this thread are a worked example of this forum at it's very best!

 

THIS is the tolerance and compassion that helps people leave the nightmare of Christianity behind.

 

I salute you all!

 

 

[yunea]

It's Nora here (with Yunea watching, no worries). I really need to talk now. But thank you SO MUCH everyone, you've been so friendly and nice to me!

 

Listen... One more of my memories is turning out to be something else than I thought. See we were hit by a large, van-sized, car at the age of 10. I wasn't around then yet, but when I was born they let me see the memory records, and I thought that what happened that day was the first clear evidence that we had a guardian angel. We felt no pain at any point, hardly even discomfort, and didn't know how we were hit. Plus there was a little tree that we seemed to effortlessly pull from to get ourselves out from under the car when people were just standing around us panicking. X-rays showed a hip fracture and we didn't walk for a long time, no running for six months. Surely an angel spared us of the worst pain and helped us, right? That's what I thought and even until last week it remained a question mark for me.

 

Well, hear this. Over the weekend a new little sister was found. She carried with her the worst pain we have ever felt, like a knife going into the hips, and it was so bad that Yunea had a very hard time focusing enough to find the girl and not disappear from reality herself. It did eventually work out when another sister helped out a bit.

 

This new girl keeps falling over and crying that she should not have gone to where the car hit us. The other sisters try to comfort her. At first she would hit them with her little fists but now she just lies on the cold ground in front of the elementary school.

 

I've not gone near her yet because she makes me cry so much. I gave credit to an angel when it was this poor little person all along. Our hips did start to hurt months after the accident (not quite as badly as what we felt now) and then years later I thought God healed them for good when I was at church. Seven painless years went by and the pain came back, and then a doctor helped us and was confused why x-rays showed no explanation and why his ideas made a difference so quickly. Again I thought it was God teaching us a lesson about looking after the body. We did take up a new hobby of going to gym regularly and it was a great thing.

 

And all along there was this little ten year old girl trying to tell us she was still there, the only one who truly knew the pain.

 

Maybe there really is no god. If there is, he is cruel for letting a little child suffer for two decades. I feel so stupid for thinking that a spirit or an angel just "took away" the pain and no one suffered, when this was the truth.

 

The others are telling me to go to her and apologize. I can't. My words drown in my tears. I feel so bad. I feel sick. -Nora

[yunea]

A little side note - I am showing this post to the ten year old girl in pain, so that she can see why Nora isn't with her.

[diggindiddy]

Great breakthrough there, congratulations ! This is huge. I send to Nora & the brave 10 years old who carried all the pain by herself my most dearest toughs.

 

Little girl, what you have been through all by yourself is incredible. You took the pain on yourself so your sisters could go on. Maybe you also did this because you felt like your parents were not strong enough to help you through this, so you had to do it yourself ? You did what you have to do then, now is time for you to let go and share the burden, heal and go on.

 

Nora, it is not easy to admit that you were wrong. You are brave too and you are on the right path now. Keep going ! You are slowly discovering that the good things that you previously thought came from god were inside you all this time. You probably feel fool, but discovering your own strength is also a wonderful and empowering experience. You can also be proud of you.

 

XXX

DD

[yunea]

Thank you, thank you, thank you DD. Nora and my little girls are crying because it feels so good to be understood. The 10 year old keeps asking if she could say hi to you uso I will let her do that next. She can use our knowledge of English.

 

-- Hello,

I took off my broken legs and hid them soon after I was found, because everyone was feeling them and I didn't want the others to suffer because of me. I never did. Not my sisters nor my parents. I tried to have invisible legs but that wasn't enough and the legs didn't walk anyway, I could only fall. After detaching them I couldn't walk at all anymore and I've lied outside for some days. The others brought me bonfires and warm drinks and mittens. Now when we read your letter, DD - our Strong Girl (helper/guardian type) has found my legs and is asking to put them back on me. To share the burden and be able to walk again.

To share the burden.

I don't know. What if it's too much again. The first time I let the others know I was hurting, they wanted a miracle. The second time I was threatened with surgery if the pain doesn't stop so what could I do. Sometimes the pain leaks out when someone feels guilt. They figured that much out but didn't *get* it. I don't want to be a problem. -Girl, 10

 

Strong Girl also says hi and wants to note that we will bring this up in therapy tomorrow, and until then she keeps the little girl warm (she refuses to not be outside in the snow) and sees to it that the legs are there when she's ready to put them on.

[yunea]

I see that the above is a good example of an alter attempting to split once more when it seems that the others still can't take the facts, and the result is dysfunctional. I am really glad that she dared to let herself be found in the first place though, and we will get through this.

 

I'm also increasingly proud of Nora.

[TheOutsider]

I've been over this thread a few times the past few days, and I don't really know what to say, all I can think of is how much we ourselves are capable of enduring, yet how little we like to see others endure similarly, or more in some cases... Or, at least I assume that's not just me, I am under the impression that empathy is a rather common trait. ;p

 

Nora, I think you should do what feels right to you, and that words aren't the only way to express yourself, I'd assume even more so in your rather unique situation. You might have been wrong about where the pain went, but at least you understand now, and are deeply sorry for attributing the lack of pain to a divine being when it was actually one of your sisters that was carrying it for so long. Maybe try to be there for her, at least as much as you can? Even if you aren't able to say anything, I imagine she would understand the gesture.

 

And I'll second what diggindiddy posted above.

Also, here's some salt, take as needed with any advice you receive from mostly anonymous internet peoples.

Bewareof potentialsodiumtoxicity,I'mnotresponsibleforseveredehydrationorhighbloodpressure,amongotherhealthrisks,fromingestingtoomuchsalt.Whyyes,Iamfeelingabitsnarkytonight.

 

-I guess I found something to say after all. I hope all is going well enough, whatever that means. ;p

[yunea]

 

 

Thanks so much for your reply, again, TheOutsider. It's much appreciated and I'm sorry to be replying this slow. Things have been quite messy here lately. 

 

It's Nora writing to you. There's less tears now, even my little sister is slowly getting a little bit better. I did go see her as per your advice, and will go again later. It's quiet when I'm with her, but I try to show I care. It's hard. I mostly watch from afar though as to not distress her. Her forbidden anger has formed into a massive thunder cloud but Yunea made a safe place for it to make noise and rain. I'm not sure if some of it would be at me. Possibly so. She is now in a wheelchair which is improvement from earlier.

I just now read your reply once more and understood that the first paragraph actually applied to me, I just tend to think I am not in the position to complain about 'enduring' anything because I caused so much wreckage... but even with that, you are right, I feel empathy for the little girl. A lot of it.

 

I am still inclined to think that things happen for a reason. I'm so repulsed by this "god" character that I do feel increasingly better thinking he's not there at all, but still I get caught thinking "oh, that's meant to be" when something happens. It's so comfortable. Yet I'm not feeling entirely good about it because... who means it then? Meh. I have no idea. I'm trying to end this text in a some kind of thoughtful way but failing - but the grain of salt with the tiny print did cause giggles here. 

-Nora

 

(Edited to add a side note: Yes indeed words are not the only way for the girls to communicate. Good thinking, TO. -Yunea) 

[TheOutsider]

Thanks so much for your reply, again, TheOutsider. It's much appreciated and I'm sorry to be replying this slow. Things have been quite messy here lately.

 

You're welcome, and thank you for the nonpolitical topic to keep an eye on. As for the slow responses, don't worry about it, life comes first. This will be here when you aren't busy, or when you need a break.

 

It's Nora writing to you. There's less tears now, even my little sister is slowly getting a little bit better. I did go see her as per your advice, and will go again later. It's quiet when I'm with her, but I try to show I care. It's hard. I mostly watch from afar though as to not distress her. Her forbidden anger has formed into a massive thunder cloud but Yunea made a safe place for it to make noise and rain. I'm not sure if some of it would be at me. Possibly so. She is now in a wheelchair which is improvement from earlier.

I just now read your reply once more and understood that the first paragraph actually applied to me, I just tend to think I am not in the position to complain about 'enduring' anything because I caused so much wreckage... but even with that, you are right, I feel empathy for the little girl. A lot of it.

 

Good to hear that things are improving, if only a little. Being there for her and showing you care is probably the best thing you can do, even if it is silent company.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "forbidden anger", foreboding maybe? Anyway... Hopefully she can calm down enough and start focusing more on healing, though that will likely take time.

We all have shit to deal with, that's just kinda how life is. But you're trying to make up for the damage you've done, right? That means something. And I don't like that she has suffered for so long either.

 

I am still inclined to think that things happen for a reason. I'm so repulsed by this "god" character that I do feel increasingly better thinking he's not there at all, but still I get caught thinking "oh, that's meant to be" when something happens. It's so comfortable. Yet I'm not feeling entirely good about it because... who means it then? Meh. I have no idea. I'm trying to end this text in a some kind of thoughtful way but failing - but the grain of salt with the tiny print did cause giggles here.

-Nora

 

I think nature is the highest power in the universe, and whatever, if anything, might be beyond it (the universe that is). I don't believe it's conscious. The universe is simply too big for a personal god to have created it solely for us. I'm more open to the idea of a pantheistic or panentheistic god, but I personally don't see any reason to believe in either of those concepts when nature suffices. I remember Allan Watts being interesting during the early to mid points of my deconversion. The more secular flavors of Zen Buddhism might help some. Or might at least give you a different way of looking at things.

 

And I'm glad I wasn't the only one I amused with that. ;p But it's still something to keep in mind, anything I post is just my own thoughts and ideas. They might not be right for you. But I'm sure Yunea has that covered. Anyway, good luck with the little one.

 

 

(Edited to add a side note: Yes indeed words are not the only way for the girls to communicate. Good thinking, TO. -Yunea)

Makes sense, body language and actions can be used in order to communicate. And being part of the same mind seems like it would afford more direct forms of communication.

[yunea]

 

It's Nora writing to you. There's less tears now, even my little sister is slowly getting a little bit better. I did go see her as per your advice, and will go again later. It's quiet when I'm with her, but I try to show I care. It's hard. I mostly watch from afar though as to not distress her. Her forbidden anger has formed into a massive thunder cloud but Yunea made a safe place for it to make noise and rain. I'm not sure if some of it would be at me. Possibly so. She is now in a wheelchair which is improvement from earlier.

I just now read your reply once more and understood that the first paragraph actually applied to me, I just tend to think I am not in the position to complain about 'enduring' anything because I caused so much wreckage... but even with that, you are right, I feel empathy for the little girl. A lot of it.

 

Good to hear that things are improving, if only a little. Being there for her and showing you care is probably the best thing you can do, even if it is silent company.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "forbidden anger", foreboding maybe? Anyway... Hopefully she can calm down enough and start focusing more on healing, though that will likely take time.

We all have shit to deal with, that's just kinda how life is. But you're trying to make up for the damage you've done, right? That means something. And I don't like that she has suffered for so long either.

 

Thanks again for the very thoughtful reply. It seems I have a bit of explaining to do! Yes, Nora did mean what she said with "forbidden", my alters just sometimes forget that not everyone is familiar with their world. The 10 year old has alienated herself from anger and disappointment so badly, she almost could have apologized for the trouble the car driver got into. The police asked me what I want done to the driver for punishment, and what came out of my mouth? "Oh. Nothing" and I smiled. So to her those are forbidden feelings that form a thunder cloud because they can't actually disappear, but we've managed to help the cloud be safer too, and also help the girl actually express something by herself. The cloud is thundering less today and there also was a bit of sunshine for her when a friend had a surprise just for her. That means very big joy is difficult for her to express as well, but we're working on it.

  

Also here's another huge breakthrough. Nora thought that the girl's disappointment in her was all there was (and it did do her good to think of her role in everything) but she was getting frustrated with things not getting much anywhere from there, she wasn't finding peace. Then a friend talked with her and turns out there's someone entirely different who owes both Nora and the 10 year old an apology. It's the people at church who told us how to live, how to think, who also affirmed that what happened with the car accident and pain was "god's miracle" instead of actually, really understanding and helping. We were desperate for guidance due to the difficult circumstances we lived in, so we were a very easy target for manipulation. That is not our fault. 

That apology is obviously not coming, but understanding that made Nora feel much better, and the girl too. Like another large burden is gone.

 

Nora is now preparing to figure out who she is if she doesn't define herself through beliefs, congregations and holy books. She likes the thought that there is a "will to live" in everything that lives. I tell her there's no rush and we can even look into the secular Zen that you mentioned if she likes. She has also became a sort of "daycare" helper with the very young child alters, which does her good and is helpful for me.   

However she is too tired to talk now, some other alters have been causing havoc here (nothing to do with religion) and they scare her and make her feel bad. But she sends her sincere thank yous and kindest regards. 

 

-Yunea

[TheOutsider]

 

 

It's Nora writing to you. There's less tears now, even my little sister is slowly getting a little bit better. I did go see her as per your advice, and will go again later. It's quiet when I'm with her, but I try to show I care. It's hard. I mostly watch from afar though as to not distress her. Her forbidden anger has formed into a massive thunder cloud but Yunea made a safe place for it to make noise and rain. I'm not sure if some of it would be at me. Possibly so. She is now in a wheelchair which is improvement from earlier.

I just now read your reply once more and understood that the first paragraph actually applied to me, I just tend to think I am not in the position to complain about 'enduring' anything because I caused so much wreckage... but even with that, you are right, I feel empathy for the little girl. A lot of it.

 

Good to hear that things are improving, if only a little. Being there for her and showing you care is probably the best thing you can do, even if it is silent company.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "forbidden anger", foreboding maybe? Anyway... Hopefully she can calm down enough and start focusing more on healing, though that will likely take time.

We all have shit to deal with, that's just kinda how life is. But you're trying to make up for the damage you've done, right? That means something. And I don't like that she has suffered for so long either.

 

 

Thanks again for the very thoughtful reply. It seems I have a bit of explaining to do! Yes, Nora did mean what she said with "forbidden", my alters just sometimes forget that not everyone is familiar with their world. The 10 year old has alienated herself from anger and disappointment so badly, she almost could have apologized for the trouble the car driver got into. The police asked me what I want done to the driver for punishment, and what came out of my mouth? "Oh. Nothing" and I smiled. So to her those are forbidden feelings that form a thunder cloud because they can't actually disappear, but we've managed to help the cloud be safer too, and also help the girl actually express something by herself. The cloud is thundering less today and there also was a bit of sunshine for her when a friend had a surprise just for her. That means very big joy is difficult for her to express as well, but we're working on it.

 

I see, thanks for clearing that up. Good to hear things are still improving. I'm sorry you had to go through all that, I can't imagine how rough that must have been. And Let the ten year old know I'm rooting for her, for what it's worth.

 

Also here's another huge breakthrough. Nora thought that the girl's disappointment in her was all there was (and it did do her good to think of her role in everything) but she was getting frustrated with things not getting much anywhere from there, she wasn't finding peace. Then a friend talked with her and turns out there's someone entirely different who owes both Nora and the 10 year old an apology. It's the people at church who told us how to live, how to think, who also affirmed that what happened with the car accident and pain was "god's miracle" instead of actually, really understanding and helping. We were desperate for guidance due to the difficult circumstances we lived in, so we were a very easy target for manipulation. That is not our fault. 

That apology is obviously not coming, but understanding that made Nora feel much better, and the girl too. Like another large burden is gone.

That's good. It sucks that people are willing to manipulate others because of their own nonsensical beliefs. But at least they aren't subjected to it anymore.

 

Nora is now preparing to figure out who she is if she doesn't define herself through beliefs, congregations and holy books. She likes the thought that there is a "will to live" in everything that lives. I tell her there's no rush and we can even look into the secular Zen that you mentioned if she likes. She has also became a sort of "daycare" helper with the very young child alters, which does her good and is helpful for me.   

However she is too tired to talk now, some other alters have been causing havoc here (nothing to do with religion) and they scare her and make her feel bad. But she sends her sincere thank yous and kindest regards. 

 

-Yunea

I wish her luck on her journey. And I'm sorry others are causing trouble, hope they calm down soon.

[yunea]

Ohh! I'm here just in time for this thread to not get locked. Thanks again TheOutsider - who knows why I didn't get around to saying it, but I did read your reply. Thanks for all the well wishes. The 10 year old is slowly merging with her Thunder cloud and learning to feel anger, sadness and disappointment over what happened to her. She's moved on from being a legless girl in a wheelchair to having legs and limping on crutches, and saying out loud that she is in pain, instead of just smiling and not moving. My leg physically hurts when she is awake, but I take the pain with her and cheer her on.

 

Nora is asking to write about something she just now is learning about herself. So I will let her:

 

 

-Hey, it's Nora. I'll get right into business.

 

I met some fellow alters in other people with systems like ours, and they too had this experience that I do, that some people are familiar even though they're not, and we can "smell" things about them for lack of a better word. We have had this for all our lives. Ever since I appeared here, my big question always was WHY? I wanted so bad to know. At church they said it's because god and angels are telling you something about/through that person. Later at new age groups they said it's because there's good synastry on our birth charts or numerology, or we know each other from past lives or it's karma or I'm beginning to be clairvoyant.

 

The only thing I myself ever had was the feeling and the repeated experience of being surprisingly right about many things regarding these people. I never had explanations by myself. I was dying to have what other people had, the wisdom, the knowledge, the way they could give me advice. And the people always told me I had to grow in faith (or let god grow faith in me, or whatever it was that the OTHER person's belief system said). And I tried. I took in everything I could because it was killing me that I didn't have what others had, and they told me I just had to "grow" to have the same things and more.

 

Never once did anyone tell me that I was enough as I am. That I could just do what I do and not be required to be something more.

 

I never felt that what I was had any worth in itself. (very biblical...)

 

Right now, today, I feel free to tell myself that I am OK this way. I don't have to force myself to "grow" and glue other people's gods and explanations into my head. I am this way, and that's it. That's all. If something changes, that's ok, but my life goal won't be to change.

 

I don't even think it's supernatural at all to have these feelings of familiarity about some people or being able to really tune in to them. After all, we had to learn at a super early age to know how our mom was feeling before she said a word, because our safety could depend on it. Maybe it all comes from there, all naturally.

 

I kind of want to talk about this in the spirituality sub-board but the problem is I don't think this is spirituality. Just human ability that is born out of a need, not unlike other abilities. Like our whole system of alters. We were all born because we were needed...(it still gets to me that that includes even me).

 

I also feel finally comfortable saying there is no god. My experience doesn't require gods if it's just a human ability that's a little bit overgrown. That would also explain why it sometimes seems to be so random: because it is. It's not a part of anyone's plan, just some weird stuff that happens to humans.

-Nora

[yunea]

Just a bit of an addition: "taking in" everything also meant interpreting everything as signs and really genuinely believing they were, indeed, signs from god. I even had a jesus shaped alter to give the experience that the real deal was talking and guiding me. I long since released the poor guy from that job. Ironic as it is, there's still a "god" alter here, he's a ball of light that doesn't talk (haha, really so fitting). For the longest time Nora denied that the presence of "god" came from within the mind as well, but not anymore.

-Y

[TheOutsider]

Ohh! I'm here just in time for this thread to not get locked. Thanks again TheOutsider - who knows why I didn't get around to saying it, but I did read your reply. Thanks for all the well wishes. The 10 year old is slowly merging with her Thunder cloud and learning to feel anger, sadness and disappointment over what happened to her. She's moved on from being a legless girl in a wheelchair to having legs and limping on crutches, and saying out loud that she is in pain, instead of just smiling and not moving. My leg physically hurts when she is awake, but I take the pain with her and cheer her on.

 

Nora is asking to write about something she just now is learning about herself. So I will let her:

 

No worries, I don't expect rapid fire conversation on a message board, and I like being able to take my time. You're welcome. And I'm glad she is continuing to improve.

 

-Hey, it's Nora. I'll get right into business.

 

I met some fellow alters in other people with systems like ours, and they too had this experience that I do, that some people are familiar even though they're not, and we can "smell" things about them for lack of a better word. We have had this for all our lives. Ever since I appeared here, my big question always was WHY? I wanted so bad to know. At church they said it's because god and angels are telling you something about/through that person. Later at new age groups they said it's because there's good synastry on our birth charts or numerology, or we know each other from past lives or it's karma or I'm beginning to be clairvoyant.

The only thing I myself ever had was the feeling and the repeated experience of being surprisingly right about many things regarding these people. I never had explanations by myself. I was dying to have what other people had, the wisdom, the knowledge, the way they could give me advice. And the people always told me I had to grow in faith (or let god grow faith in me, or whatever it was that the OTHER person's belief system said). And I tried. I took in everything I could because it was killing me that I didn't have what others had, and they told me I just had to "grow" to have the same things and more.

 

Never once did anyone tell me that I was enough as I am. That I could just do what I do and not be required to be something more.

 

I never felt that what I was had any worth in itself. (very biblical...)

 

Right now, today, I feel free to tell myself that I am OK this way. I don't have to force myself to "grow" and glue other people's gods and explanations into my head. I am this way, and that's it. That's all. If something changes, that's ok, but my life goal won't be to change.

 

I don't even think it's supernatural at all to have these feelings of familiarity about some people or being able to really tune in to them. After all, we had to learn at a super early age to know how our mom was feeling before she said a word, because our safety could depend on it. Maybe it all comes from there, all naturally.

 

I kind of want to talk about this in the spirituality sub-board but the problem is I don't think this is spirituality. Just human ability that is born out of a need, not unlike other abilities. Like our whole system of alters. We were all born because we were needed...(it still gets to me that that includes even me).

 

I also feel finally comfortable saying there is no god. My experience doesn't require gods if it's just a human ability that's a little bit overgrown. That would also explain why it sometimes seems to be so random: because it is. It's not a part of anyone's plan, just some weird stuff that happens to humans.

-Nora

 

I think you're on the right track. Pretending to know something about gods, what happens to us after death, or anything else that cannot be demonstrated in reality isn't wisdom, and it definitely isn't knowledge. I think you're going to be fine, wherever you end up.

 

Intuition can be a useful tool, although it's not always reliable. Being able to make quick and dirty judgements about how others around you are probably feeling, or how they might react to something (among other things) is hardly a mystical ability, just another "good enough" trait our species happened to (probably) inherit. Like seeing faces on trees, or a part of you wanting to run when you hear a twig snap or leaves rustle in the woods.

 

Seems perfectly natural as far as I can tell.

[yunea]

Ok, the mods have unlocked this thread due to my request (thanks!), I'll be letting Nora write a bit because she needs some support. She'll probably appear within the next 24 hours. 

[yunea]

(I read back on the thread, and for those who are interested: Injured Girl merged into another girl of the same age, and they don't need crutches anymore. Strong Girl revealed she is a very scared little girl who was only pretending to be so strong.

-Yunea)

 

Okay, Nora here... I feel stupid coming back when I last left on such a positive note.

 

Do you people find that you feel better and worse in waves when time passes after deconversion? How long does it take for it to end? 

 

I wanted the others to forget the old things, I wanted to wrap them up and put them away. But now as a therapy exercise we're reading our own old diaries, and it's like they're performing autopsy on me before I'm dead. I didn't want everyone to remember everything. It's all so embarrassing and painful. I wanted to just not be a nuisance anymore and serve quietly, dress in only grey and black, and quietly fade into the background.

 

Before we opened up the diaries, Yunea was asking, "where is Nora?" and for a while she believed it when the answers always were "not here", but then my sister said "look again, why is it so important to repeatedly think that she's not here?" and she found me. I failed at my plan again, and now with the diaries I'm forced to look at myself again, and everyone else gets to see too. 

 

How do you cope with knowing it was for nothing? All the time, effort, emotion, work, even danger you faced for Jesus. All for nothing. No real benefits to anyone, no actual helping of the poor (more like helping the already rich), this "spiritual warfare" and waiting for one more gift, one more touch, one more step on the way of faith. And you and your closest people know it was for nothing. How do you cope?!

 

Do you people want to hide your past? Pretend you've never been so stupid to believe it all so firmly, you treated it as fact? Come up with a nicer story than the real one? One where bad things are few, stupidity is short-lived, no one gets hurt? 

-Nora

[Ellinas]

Nora,

 

This is just my own personal outlook.  Others may well think otherwise.

 

No time is wasted.  We are what we are because of what we have been.  What we will be is because of what we are now.  This, it seems to me, is no different in your case.  From this standpoint, regret is a form of self denial.  But, as none of us can know what we would have been had things been different, none of us can say that we are not the best that could have been.

 

Looked at from this angle, I think it is possible to face what one may regard as one's failures (and we all have them), take responsibility for them and accept that they are as valid a part of our make up as any success.

 

And from there, it is possible to concentrate on the present without regret.

 

I have no idea whether that will be of any help, but I hope so.

[Aethelred]

Nora,

 

You are a beautiful writer. From your sisters, you have learned to use your words with the master's touch. Your story has moved me.

 

Your story. It is in some ways like mine. I too sought Christ in heartbreak, and thought I found him. I name that self the Dreamer. For me, most days the Dreamer sleeps. Some days he is one with the rest of me. But some days he is restless and wakes and he still wants to believe, and it hurts, and I long to go back.

 

Deconversion for me has indeed been in waves, ebbing and flowing from confidence in my new self to yearning for my old self back. Over time as we flow one way and then the other, the struggle of this turmoil brings us together, and together we have been making gradual progress in one direction. That direction is toward a new life of reliance on the strength of our own self rather than reliance on faith.

 

I don't know if our experience will be your experience. But I wanted you to know, in the modest hope that it might help.