Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted October 17, 2016 Moderator Share Posted October 17, 2016 I was thinking what would change my opinion, and I started thinking of many things. Then I thought of my best friend who as a joinery apprentice had his fingers on his right hand caught in a machine. The only finger that survived relatively intact was his middle finger. I should know this, but I think his thumb is damaged as well. Pretty sure its half a thumb now. At the time there was some questioning - why did God let this happen? My friends spirit thought shaken was not unbroken, and in fact become stronger. Having lost main use of his hand, he had to relearn how to use it handicapped. Once simple tasks were now difficult. Through all this he didn't give up. He loved squash and the gym. Within a few months he had retaken his spot as the best squash player in our group. To this day he can bench press heavier and grip harder than I can. The Church saw all this and said the accident was for God to show us my friends character - he still would have preferred his whole hand I think. This leads to what would make you believe in God? As I was thinking of this I thought of my amputee friend, missing 3 fingers and half a thumb. It is well recorded in the medical system. If the fingers grew back to a fully functioning hand, medically proven, -i.e. medical science ruled out any natural ability to grow back etc. I would believe in the God that did that. What would make you believe in God? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 It would take a whole lot more than a regrown limb to make me believe. I'd suspect stem cell research or something along those lines before I'd give credit to a "goddidit", which is just short hand for I don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted October 17, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted October 17, 2016 Yes, I was meaning medical scientists ruled out an possible natural causes. Or is the position still at that point, something strange happened but I don't know? In which case do you know what would make you believe - you know its more, but what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yunea Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 There's a lot that science can't do or measure yet. I'm not implying anything supernatural, just saying that not terribly long ago we didn't know what, say, radioactivity was. So if a mysterious re-growth happened that doctors couldn't explain, I'd think of it as a weird anecdote that deserves further research. I need evidence of a god to believe in one. I don't believe confusion is evidence of anything but human ignorance. Becquerel figured out that radioactive items leave marks on photo paper because they indeed radiate, unlike non-radioactive items. What does a god ever do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 What I'm saying is supernatural is a cop out for I don't know. It's not an explanation that's valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 which is just short hand for I don't know. Was the pun intended? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 which is just short hand for I don't know.Was the pun intended? Apparently not, 'cause I don't see it. I'm probably having a 'stupid' day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted October 17, 2016 Super Moderator Share Posted October 17, 2016 which is just short hand for I don't know.Was the pun intended? Apparently not, 'cause I don't see it. I'm probably having a 'stupid' day. SHORT HAND. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 which is just short hand for I don't know.Was the pun intended? Apparently not, 'cause I don't see it. I'm probably having a 'stupid' day. SHORT HAND. The Donald's tiny hands? Still don't get it. Maybe I've been out of the country too long and missed something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted October 17, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted October 17, 2016 I believe they are referring to the fact this thread is about my friend losing the fingers of his right hand (Making it SHORTER) and whether if they grew back after asking God to grow them back whether that would be sufficient evidence for God? But I guess your short hand pun was not intended. I think ya'll short on compassion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted October 17, 2016 Super Moderator Share Posted October 17, 2016 ... lost his fingers in a machine.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midniterider Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 If God appeared in person for a month, did interviews, televised miracles ( you know, like bringing the other planets close by so they would appear like moons to the naked eye...but not harm anyone on Earth, because he's like all-powerful and could do that...then he puts the planets back to normal) and numerous personal visits...I'd believe in him then. Scientists who were allowed to do a battery of tests on God would refrain from saying, "He's the real deal." Test results would remain 'inconclusive' and there would be debate for 100 years until the memory began to fade. James Randii would not let go of his million dollars. Organizations based on non-belief in God would continually demand evidence even though his presence was obvious to the masses because their continued financial existence would be dependent on God's non-existence. They would never accept their own observation. Dawkins would later release a new book called "That wasn't God." Generations later people would laugh at their great great great grandparents who fell for that charlatan. That was fun little exercise, thanks. lol. Though, yes....it's an imaginary tale. I'm not really missing believing in God. Sometimes when things get bad I pray. Maybe when I'm old I'll become a believer when death approaches. I dunno. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 Forgot the guy lost his fingers. Smf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fweethawt Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 I think ya'll short on compassion Nah. Just injecting a bit of humor when we can. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzon Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 No, i would assume its a new unstudied part of the natural world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disillusioned Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 This leads to what would make you believe in God? As I was thinking of this I thought of my amputee friend, missing 3 fingers and half a thumb. It is well recorded in the medical system. If the fingers grew back to a fully functioning hand, medically proven, -i.e. medical science ruled out any natural ability to grow back etc. I would believe in the God that did that. What would make you believe in God? One hand spontaneously healing itself would not do it. Similarly, if I saw one rock floating above the ground, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that gravity doesn't exist. Either case would be interesting and would merit more investigation. But a single data point should never lead to a firm conclusion. If Christians were able to consistently show, under reasonable experimental conditions, that prayer miraculously heals medical problems, then that would go a long way towards convincing me of the existence of the Christian God. But, in that case, I expect that the hospitals would soon be out business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted October 18, 2016 Author Moderator Share Posted October 18, 2016 Good points all. Goes to show how far one has to go in developing critical thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ Fuego ♦ Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 There was also a Star Trek episode where a woman seemed to be fulfilling a prophecy, seemed to be doing things that were on the level of a god. Then it was found that she was using a new technology and was exploiting the beliefs of the people of that planet. This is a recurring theme in sci-fi, where sufficient technology can appear to be magic. The invisible means of communications we use today, the satellite tracking and photography of things on the surface, the micro circuitry, all were beyond the experience of people even a few hundred years ago. Where do we draw the line between the magic of a god and that of technology? We tend to think of a god as one that made us, made life, has control of the weather and elements, can be appeased to gain an edge on the chaos of life, who has some control over life after death (though that part was a later idea in human religion). I'm sure that the technology a hundred years from now will far exceed our current stuff. And two hundred years from now will be unrecognizable to even the geeks of today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 I'm still at the point where I believe there could be a god. However, I want nothing to do with said god. Every day, I grow more and more convinced there isn't one, though, due to increasing and continuing lack of evidence. As I learn more about science, I see the world in a whole new view. Though my brain is still wired to assume there is a god, I am unlearning very quickly. For now, I can proudly say "fuck god." And eventually, I'll say "there's no reason to say 'fuck god.' he won't hear me because there's no such thing!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pantheory Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 If God appeared in person for a month, did interviews, televised miracles ( you know, like bringing the other planets close by so they would appear like moons to the naked eye...but not harm anyone on Earth, because he's like all-powerful and could do that...then he puts the planets back to normal) and numerous personal visits...I'd believe in him then............................................................................................ I guess I'm as hard core as they come. Under the same circumstances you explained above, I would turn myself over to psychiatrists in the expectation that I was crazy. Even if the psychiatrists said they witnessed the same things, I would think it was all part of some kind-of crazy dream, imagination, that the person claiming to be god was some kind of magician, a trickster of some kind, that I was in a maze, my mind was being f'd with by one means or another, etc., etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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