Castiel233 Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 What does that even mean , I mean really. He died for all of us, yet we are still going to Hell....huh!!!! Before Jesus died, god was happy to accept the burnt offerings of a sheep, now that isn't good enough. So he has his own son hung on the cross and still he sends the human race down. It simply does not make sense The church says you just "have to believe", so deeds mean nothing and magic thoughts trump all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjn Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 What does that even mean , I mean really. He died for all of us, yet we are still going to Hell....huh!!!! Before Jesus died, god was happy to accept the burnt offerings of a sheep, now that isn't good enough. So he has his own son hung on the cross and still he sends the human race down. It simply does not make sense The church says you just "have to believe", so deeds mean nothing and magic thoughts trump all. He also didn't seem to give a damn about non-Jews up until the time of the New Covenant, so how can all those gentiles be blamed for their "evil ways"? They didn't even know about Jesus, let alone the Jewish religion! If you're going to be the God for all the peoples of the Earth, perhaps you shouldn't play favourites with a small and fairly isolated tribe, as well as sanctioning their crimes with a simple "It was my will"-cop out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted October 18, 2016 Share Posted October 18, 2016 Many humans have died for the benefit of other humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator TheRedneckProfessor Posted October 19, 2016 Super Moderator Share Posted October 19, 2016 jesus died for me for three days; I lived for him for over thirty years. We're even. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzon Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 So part of god who wasnt god and also a relative died for a problem that in the end he caused since he planted a certain tree in a certain garden? Right And i got a deed ona bridge in hawaii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangitbobby83 Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 I always love the "he died for you."No he didn't. Forgetting the fact that I didn't ask him to do such thing, nor expect him to, nor having him providing any sort of good reason why he should die, we get to the problem of him actually dying. What's the problem? He didn't fucking die, the claim goes. He "died" and was back to living again a few short hours later. That isn't death, that's a coma. There was no sacrifice for the all-powerful, immaterial creator of the universe. He spent a few hours being inconvenienced, which he could've easily stopped (so saith the bible), and then went back to being the all powerful, immaterial creator, sitting on his throne besides himself as the right hand of himself. He maintained control the entire time, knew it was coming, knew he could stop it, and knew he would be back to his old, uber-powerful self in a jiffy. Yeah. That sacrifice. Woo-hoo. Let's all get excited about it, and talk about how much "love" it is that an infinitely powerful being can "sorta" die (but not really, he was always in control and always infinitely powerful). It's nuts. And it isn't love - nor a gift - if there is a threat at the end of not taking said gift. If my wife wanted to leave me, I wouldn't kidnap and torture her until she died. I love her enough to let her go. That is true love. That is sacrifice. God? Psh. He could forgive us and not send us to hell in any such way he chooses. The entire NT is as lame as the entire OT is full of woo, bullshit, and an abusively evil god. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator buffettphan Posted October 19, 2016 Super Moderator Share Posted October 19, 2016 What does that even mean , I mean really. He died for all of us, yet we are still going to Hell....huh!!!! Looks like the omni-everything-perfect-god/jesus died in vain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOHO Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 The more I read either OT or NT the more obvious it seems, to me, that the books were writting by antient control freeks with the intention of gorging themselves on power and moolah. Looking at those at Mrs. MOHO's church who are most (or appear to be) into the doctrine have an insatiable apatite for control and self-adulation. They surround themselves with week-minded fearful individuals whom they can manipulate and who will drool for hours on end while Mr. or Mrs. control freak goes through their thrice weekly "look at MEEEEEE" routine. Yes, many are giving lip service to the "I's about Jesus!" paradigm. But all the while THEY are the one's in front of the crowed ...and ENJOYING it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rerics Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Even as a little kid, I just couldn't understand the connection: a person dies, and with their act of dying, (somehow) all of the bad "sin" stuff gets sucked out of you and goes with them. And to make matters even more confusing, this only happens if you somehow "accept" it or "believe" it. Assuming for a second that Jesus actually died and didn't just have a bad weekend, what exactly is the mechanism of action that makes this happen? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangitbobby83 Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Even as a little kid, I just couldn't understand the connection: a person dies, and with their act of dying, (somehow) all of the bad "sin" stuff gets sucked out of you and goes with them. And to make matters even more confusing, this only happens if you somehow "accept" it or "believe" it. Assuming for a second that Jesus actually died and didn't just have a bad weekend, what exactly is the mechanism of action that makes this happen? It brings up an even bigger question - why couldn't god just say "you're forgiven"! If someone "sins" against me, I don't need a middle man to pay for those sins. If the sins aren't that bad, all that needs to happen is for the sinner to ask me for forgiveness. I'll likely just hand it to them without any questions asked. Why can't god do that? Why is it that any minor infraction requires unending torture? And why does this asking for forgiveness have to happen before death? I mean, we have no evidence of god and no evidence of sin or the soul. So why can't we ask god right as we see him? Okay, I get the idea of justice. We are all guilty of hurting someone and being selfish. But an eternity of torture? And if we just believe in Jesus we suddenly get an eternity of pleasure? Why the dichotomy? None of that sounds like justice at all. And back to your question - if god can't stand sin, why does simply asking for forgiveness from Jesus "cleanse" us? Why does god suddenly see a sinless being? Again, couldn't an all powerful creator being see whatever he wants to see? Couldn't he use his all powerful magic to just remove our sinfulness instantly? Okay, he can't do that because it interferes with free will - why is it okay to strip us of our free will in the next life? Why is it not okay to ask these questions and to reject answers that make no sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 What's the problem? He didn't fucking die, the claim goes. He "died" and was back to living again a few short hours later. That isn't death, that's a coma. LOL. They never question the absurd logic of someone who "dies" for your sins but then comes back to life. So he didn't actually die. The whole thing is profoundly dumb. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Posted October 19, 2016 Share Posted October 19, 2016 Even as a little kid, I just couldn't understand the connection: a person dies, and with their act of dying, (somehow) all of the bad "sin" stuff gets sucked out of you and goes with them. And to make matters even more confusing, this only happens if you somehow "accept" it or "believe" it. Assuming for a second that Jesus actually died and didn't just have a bad weekend, what exactly is the mechanism of action that makes this happen? You'd have to try to enter the imaginations of ancient mystics, and it's hard enough to try doing that for contemporary ones. It's all wrapped around some quite psychotic interpretations of the Old Testament, plus blood magic and other voodoo nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 What does that even mean , I mean really. He died for all of us, yet we are still going to Hell....huh!!!! Before Jesus died, god was happy to accept the burnt offerings of a sheep, now that isn't good enough. So he has his own son hung on the cross and still he sends the human race down. It simply does not make sense Well here's the thing ........... this alleged Jesus fellow, in context with the myth, didn't really die, he just returned to his original form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 He had a bad weekend, according to the myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 God is incredibly disorganized. Here's a weird analogy: it reminds me of my current senior research project. The IRB, the committee that reviews and approves (or denies) research proposals, had an inefficient person from the music department instead of psychology faculty in charge of getting back to students about whether they could do their project, finally responding a week or two later than they should have, and we have limited time to complete it already. So all 100-200 or so of us need 50 to 100 subjects in five weeks. If we screw up, we get a bad grade or fail the course and have to take it again, but if the IRB screws up and gets us in trouble, it's "whoops! Sorry! Better luck next time!" It's like that with biblegod. Humans can make bad decisions and go to Hell, but if god has a spectacularly poorly-thought-out solution to a problem that he created and we go to Hell because of him, well, whoops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.B. Posted October 25, 2016 Share Posted October 25, 2016 I mentioned this in my summary of the buy-bull: How is it that god allowed the incestuous bastard children of Cain, Seth and all the other offspring of Adam (and their miraculously-appearing spouses) to go off and form other religions in the first place? Cain, et al never kept the religious bloodline pure. After the events at the so-called tower of Babel, we have thousands of other religions. Jesus died for sin that was inevitable, caused by the actions of people who were tempted by a creature that god created and ALLOWED to tempt them. Those people's descendants went on to form religious and philosophical organizations that, in some cases, don't even remotely reflect Abrahamic religion at all. Seems like god could have spared everyone by either forgiving the original offense (magic fruit), or by making sure that the "true religion" at least stayed the predominant one in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 God came to earth as himself to sacrifice himself to himself to save us from himself. Any questions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L.B. Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 God came to earth as himself to sacrifice himself to himself to save us from himself. Any questions? Nah, it was Odin the All-Father who sacrificed himself to himself. The bible (and its billions of fans) are radically confused about whether Jesus was god, a god, inspired by god or merely mortal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Jesus died for somebody's sins but not mine. -Patti Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Furball Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 A strange thing isn't it that jesus died to save christians from their sins, yet christians keep right on sinning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeCycle Posted October 27, 2016 Share Posted October 27, 2016 Here's the deal. Jesus died for himself. This dying for you and me shit is not true. This was his plan, his doing... All of it. I would have said, "bro, no way in hell you need to die for me. Oh and hell, that's unnecessary too... Nobody is a lost cause - especially in the span of eternity, nobody." Remember this grand plan is his own... Everything happens according to his will, right? Right. He didn't die for you or for me. He died for his will... His ego. Himself. Only he is responsible for his death. Nobody else. You cannot be the ultimate authority and blame someone else for the plan you implemented. That's not how things work. Don't believe him. He's a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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