I'm Out! Telling The Family

[LogicalFallacy]

Hi all

 

Well I'm fully out as a non believer. I told my sister a few days ago and she took it quite well and gave some sage advice on how to tell Mum and Dad.

 

I trust the following may be able to help someone in a similar situation of needing to tell family. Please ask questions if you want further discussion.

 

Tonight I talked to Mum and Dad. I won't go into the details, but Mum never saw it coming and Dad said he was blindsided which means my subtle hint dropping was way too subtle! From this I think you can take away that if you are not a good hint dropper (Which I knew I wasn't) then a gentle direct approach may be best. Note I did not go in guns blazing, and I did not bring the strongest arguments to bear. I merely wanted at this delicate stage to let them know I no longer believe and the broad reasons why.

 

Mum reacted as expected, started to cry after the first line. Dad was quiet for a long time and just let me talk which I was surprised at.

 

I gave them a very broad explanation as to why I can no longer believe in the Bible or God. By broad I mean I hit all the top level subject areas: Science, Archaeology, History, Mythology, and problems with the Bible. Mum actually left after about half and hour as she couldn't handle it, which again was not surprising. 

 

Dad naturally talked, and the talk went fairly well. There was no shouting and screaming. I think at points he was a little angry, but I could be reading that wrong. It was probably enthusiasm for his argument.

 

Common threads I drew out of this:

 

Denial: Mum kept repeating that she doesn't believe that I don't believe and that deep down I really believe.

Its your overactive mind: Using mind to much and filling it with anti christian thinking was a theme. This tied into feeding the soul the wrong food etc. Pretty much the idea was to stop researching and keep attending church. (Incidentally my mind is one of my really strong points. On the physical side there's not much, I'm not artsy or anything else so what I have is my mind... the very thing that is making me 'fall')

Keep attending church: Far from wanting to hiff me out they wanted me to keep attending church, but I said I didn't think this was good for anyone.

It's the devil: Completely expected this line. "Have I considered the devil is attacking you" I was asked. Well yes, but since I don't believe in devils I have no way of knowing if I actually am under the devils influence.

No human could have made this up: I was asked where did the Bible and the revelations of God come from? Peoples minds?? Yes I said, take for example you don't believe in Joseph Smith, or Mohammed or countless others, yet their mind spawned religions. A vastly powerful and complex thing the mind is.

The Bible is not a book of facts its living: This theme I wasn't surprised at, but very hard to counter when you point out all that's wrong with the bible and the response is, that may be so but the word of God is living and our understanding of it changes. Well yes, once you realized the earth revolves around the sun you alter your belief, but apparently this doesn't indicate any errors with the bible. I got the strong impression that the bible is not the absolute, it's Gods living experience with the person that is central to a Christians life. The issue is I seem to be lacking that said real unshakable experience.

 

We talked a bit about what happens when you die. A common christian theme is the inability to comprehend that when we die we just die. There seems to be this great aghast at the thought of no afterlife. The coming apocalypse between Russia and America was mentioned.

 

Overall nothing dented Dad's belief in God, which again I don't expect it too. Much like there are some atheists who would never believe in God despite substantiated evidence, there are some Christians who despite everything showed to them still believe. I did say that if there is a God then he knows what it would take to make me believe and thus if he want's me to believe he will reveal himself to me in that way.

 

We finished by promising to keep in contact. How the wider family is told I'm leaving up to Dad (He is also the Pastor) So still a lot of water to go under the bridge, but I stressed that I was not rejecting the family and still wanted to be part of their lives.

 

Thanks to all the support I have received here over the months.

 

This is LogicalFallacy, and my journey is just beginning.

[ax345]

This is excellent!

[Tsathoggua]

Captivating! I'm glad that you're "out", now. Congratulations!

[MOHO]

It takes alot of huevos to fess up, Logical. Good on 'ya.

 

As you guyz know I came out a couple years ago but the stress was so intence I began to kinda pretend to tow the xtian line again. I"m not sure what Mrs. MOHO really thinks but we don't talk about it. Next time I come out maybe it'l be easier. It's a journey - not a destination...right...RIGHT?

 

Maybe I can do this a few more times, trying different approaches each time, then write an article on how best to come out a breath'n heath'n atheist.

 

But back to Logical Fallacy. That took alot of intestinal fortitude and you are to be commended. If you have to take measures to apease your mum - I won't stand in judgement.

[Burny]

Congratulations! It's facinating that you got the exact same reactions I did with my parents. I'm glad you didn't go in guns blazing. That is not the best way to go about these things IMHO.

[Daffodil]

Wonderful! I hope the aftermath isn't too rough. The thing about thinking too much always gets me. According to the Bible, god created me and everything about me. If he gave me a mind, why would he then tell me not to use it? That's like telling me to go around blindfolded despite him giving me eyes!

[LogicalFallacy]

Hi all, thanks for your thoughts.

 

@ MOHO I think we'd have to conclude that the best way to come out depends entirely on the person's personal circumstances. So many variables that are near impossible to calculate it hurts my brain.

 

@ Burny - yes I have always maintained that one should only go in guns blazing if the relationship was beyond repair, or you wanted to put the relationship beyond repair. For example if the reaction had been very negative and kinda like " leave you are not my son etc" I would have been inclined to charge up the tachyon cannons.

 

@ Daffodil - that is one of my arguments against a kind loving God that considers me his son. He created me so that I am curious, skeptical and analytical. Very very bad mix for a religious person who starts finding holes in their beliefs. The common line is "We must put on the mind of Christ", which is to say believe and don't question.

 

One thing is that Dad especially want to continue having talks to try and figure how why I came to this point, and perhaps find something I haven't thought of.

 

I feel a bit sad because there probably isn't much I haven't covered. I have spent 4 hours every night for the last 8 months doing serious research and writing. Everything from watching debates, documentaries and lectures, to reading masses of information and discussions both atheist and Christian.

 

Admittedly we, oops they, are a special breed of Christian, and probably the only church in the world who believes exactly what we believe, so near impossible to find direct arguments and counters on the net.  

 

There seems to be a very strong denial at work. No acceptance of "oh he doesn''t beleive" Mind you its only been 24 hours. So could be some long hard talks ahead.

[bornagainathiest]

Way to go, LF..!  

[Guest]

I'm going to be seeing all my family at Thanksgiving and I really want to be open with them. A rift has been set between us because my mom is the only one who knows anything. She thinks that I cant handle religion because I'm "damaged" and that I have rejected god. Thus, our entire extended family thinks I'm a bitter rebel and this has made interactions with them in the past year very awkward. Id like to mend things a bit, at least telling them why I no longer believe, and that its logic, not emotion. True, I left because I was hurt, but I stayed away because I began to think. Thank you for your post; it gives me a place to start. I just want to be able to talk to my family like normal human beings, rather than hiding. I know they'll never understand, but they're all very into logic (which is ironic, but they prize the idea of logic), so I'm hoping they'll respect me more if I explain that it's logic that made me leave. They've been known to have more respect for others in the same boat. Anyway. Even if not that, I want them to know I'm not bitter and still want a relationship with them. Your last phrases made me realize that's exactly what I need to tell them. Thank you.

[LogicalFallacy]

You are welcome Abijah, I trust thanksgiving goes well for you. Best of luck, hugs and holy noodleness.

 

Even if they don't agree, try and not get into a conflict. Respectfully state what and why you think religion is not for you, but emphasize that you want to keep in contact etc.

 

Don't be disappointed if you see denial and/or detachment. It's a natural process which will heal in time if salt is not poured into the wound.

 

My family seems to be ignoring that I no longer believe - after the the initial telling no one has asked anything.... kinda ignoring the elephant in the room. I am pretty sure my generation is not asking questions because they've been warned I could lead them astray, or are afraid I could lead them astray.
 

[Guest]

LogicalFallcy,

 

Thanks for the wise words.

 

The denial process does seem to be very prevalent in these kinds of families. My mother still can't seem to utter the words, "she isn't a Christian." Instead, she uses phrases like "she isnt living the Christian lifestyle."

 

I need to do this mainly for myself, to be honest with the family that's seen me grow up (and stray) and be able to have a sense of closure. The end of the chapter. I can finally close the christian book and tell them I'm done, whether or not they deny it. At least I'll have good reasons and be able to state that these reasons are so good, I am never coming back.

[Guest]

As a P.S., I would never tell them "I'm never coming back," as to not upset them. Instead, that I am staying away until I have evidence, which we all know is never.

[Ellinas]

Congratulations and all the best with this.

[LogicalFallacy]

As a P.S., I would never tell them "I'm never coming back," as to not upset them. Instead, that I am staying away until I have evidence, which we all know is never.

Yes, I used the line "I'm not ruling out there is a God, but if he is God then he knows what it would take for me to believe so if he wants me to believe he will reveal himself" They simply cannot argue (reasonably) with that line. You are clearly stating you are not close minded and acknowledging if there is God then he knows how to make you believe.

[Guest]

 

As a P.S., I would never tell them "I'm never coming back," as to not upset them. Instead, that I am staying away until I have evidence, which we all know is never.

Yes, I used the line "I'm not ruling out there is a God, but if he is God then he knows what it would take for me to believe so if he wants me to believe he will reveal himself" They simply cannot argue (reasonably) with that line. You are clearly stating you are not close minded and acknowledging if there is God then he knows how to make you believe.

Exactly! Some of the various phrases I am using in my email to her (she lives down south):

 

I left the church because of Christians,but I left Christianity because of skepticism.

 

Science has not yet proven god. I need evidence because I cannot base my life upon belief.

 

If god is real, and if he is going to send me to hell for innocent disbelief and doubt,then he's not a god I'd like to worship.

[Guest]

Basically, my main reason is no evidence, and my secondary reason is the bible and Christianity are immoral and harmful. I'm going to mention that I do not agree with the ethics of the bible, but only as a side note to why I don't believe just in case there's a hell.

[LogicalFallacy]

Hi all

 

Update on progress.

 

I've done a 180 and ended up back in church.  Now before ya'll get worried, don't panic. I don't believe in any God, not even his holy noodleness.

 

It has been suggested a more conciliatory approach that what I have been taking would help preserve the family relationships.

 

You see, what has happened since my coming out, which I thought went quite well, my family has been both "shattered" (So they didn't  take it as well as I thought) and in Dad's case, doubled down and hunkered in on his beliefs, to the point he is now digging up every bit of 'scientific evidence' to counter my reasons in science of why I don't believe in God.

 

So I am now in a process of leaving Church (again) but slowly, and hopefully get them well used to the idea that I don't believe in God. I'm not sure how it will go so will have to take a day at a time.

 

So any advice that I can give? Well, in your initial coming out, it may pay not to hit them with the following:

 

I don't believe in God > why? Because science, archaeology, history and the bible is crap! (That's a satire version of events, but you get the idea)

 

Of course it depends on your family. I keep replaying the initial conversation in my head wondering if I could have affected the outcome differently. I really don't know, but I know I could have eased up a lot on smacking their dear beliefs about with the brutal hammer that is science! Think of it when someone personally verbally attacks you, it causes you to withdraw, raise shields and fire back. It's a natural self protection mechanism, and I think I inadvertently activated it with my family when I directly threatened their beliefs.

 

So that is my update, and hopefully some helpful insight as to what is going on, and what to avoid for those thinking of coming out.

 

LF

[MOHO]

Hey Logical,

 

I had to do much the same thing after a "hard" comig out. Told the wife that belief in anything that cannot be proven via sciense suggests that the believer is not well adjusted.

 

THAT went over like a lead zepplin!

 

There was so much tension on  the home front they I had to start attending again. It's not all the time and I don't participate in ANYTHING else. In fact - I'm lack-luster when I'm there. I don't usually even go into the sanctuary and I don't say jack-shit - even when asked.

 

We live in a society with deeply entrenched beliefs and an "us vs them" mentality. This makes it very difficult to cope in a world that simply REFUSES to accept too much outside of certain boxes. Living with the contant scrutinization of one's every move - because you are a godless heathen and cannot be trusted - is not living.

[ConsiderTheSource]

Hey Logical,

 

I had to do much the same thing after a "hard" comig out. Told the wife that belief in anything that cannot be proven via sciense suggests that the believer is not well adjusted.

 

THAT went over like a lead zepplin!

 

There was so much tension on  the home front they I had to start attending again. It's not all the time and I don't participate in ANYTHING else. In fact - I'm lack-luster when I'm there. I don't usually even go into the sanctuary and I don't say jack-shit - even when asked.

 

We live in a society with deeply entrenched beliefs and an "us vs them" mentality. This makes it very difficult to cope in a world that simply REFUSES to accept too much outside of certain boxes. Living with the contant scrutinization of one's every move - because you are a godless heathen and cannot be trusted - is not living.

 

***MOHO you just inadvertently helped me out.  Something in my mind has been holding me back from coming out fully as part of the "dreaded" 3.5% of the population identifying as a full atheist.  You hit it on the head...being monitored, being "not trusted"...even though my value set is high on trust and being genuine....IS NOT LIVING.  It would only be frustration...more frustration than i am currently experiencing (which is a lot) living among and dealing day to day with the 80% of the population, friendships, and relationships,  claiming some level of religious programming.  Better to smile when conversing with the 80%, nod my head when needed, and simply walk away and live in this amazing world and relish every moment of every remaining day.   Thank you for you help.

[willybilly30]

I wish you all luck

It is pretty hard to do and your dad probally thinks you are going to hell.

What a loving god hu? don't pove his existance but there is a hell you go to if you do not believe.

Also, a billion religions in the world ro choose from.

When my mom found out i was in wicca she bugged me to death

she wont even add me on facebook..even tho she don't bug me about it she don't wamt anyone to know

Sometimes i wonder whether God exists or not not really sure

Well, good luck

[LogicalFallacy]

Thanks guys.

 

MOHO - yes, I have happily stopped short of calling my father a conspiracy moron out of frustration. He believes that this 'evolution thing' is a ploy by the devil to hide the truth etc and blah blah - seriously difficult having a serious conversation with that kind of thinking. Blowing my top wouldn't help. He's currently asking why my empty pot plant (Plastic) won't produce life    

[MOHO]

Hey Concider,

 

Glad I could add value and perspective.

[MOHO]

Logical,

 

Fundies, like your pa, just want to believe because they have not learned to accept the inevitable. Any non-believers in their midsts makes them edgy and nervous about their own existence and beliefs.

 

Plant the seed then move on. Some will think but others will simply keep lying to themselves. You and I cannot change that - only THEY can.