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Goodbye Jesus

Grace Vs. Political Correctness


Guest end3

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Compare and contrast. Grace used to be that near silent, quiet response, the smile of wisdom and a prayer. Now we have taken our faithful strivings out of the church and have given them over to new nasty means. We now shame others by imposing the perfection of political correctness....a tool to manipulate others. You have thoughts of race? Racist. Gender? Misogynistic pig. and on and on.

 

What used to be basically a spiritual response is now an objective response with intent. In other words, this tool allows us to impose some relative perfection on others with the intent to control and stifle rather than free and encourage.

 

Nasty nasty nasty...

 

this message has been brought to you by Serta Perfert Sleeper.....

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Yeah, because, you know - telling people they are sinners, that sex outside XYZ specifications is bad, if you are different in any way and they need to get their ass saved by Jesus, in pews, giving cash, then encouraging those fools to vote in terrible politicians to legislate morality for the rest of us who disagree...you know, isn't manipulation at all. It's grace.

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Compare and contrast. Grace used to be that near silent, quiet response, the smile of wisdom and a prayer. Now we have taken our faithful strivings out of the church and have given them over to new nasty means. We now shame others by imposing the perfection of political correctness....a tool to manipulate others. You have thoughts of race? Racist. Gender? Misogynistic pig. and on and on.

 

What used to be basically a spiritual response is now an objective response with intent. In other words, this tool allows us to impose some relative perfection on others with the intent to control and stifle rather than free and encourage.

 

Nasty nasty nasty...

 

this message has been brought to you by Serta Perfert Sleeper.....

 

When I used to go to church or talk with Christians, even when I was one of the most ardent of believers among them, I would take that 'silent quiet smile of wisdom' response as being arrogant beyond belief.  

 

It was a churchy, judgmental look. A Politically Correct way to respond in the most passive/aggressive way possible to them at the time.

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Compare and contrast. Grace used to be that near silent, quiet response, the smile of wisdom and a prayer. Now we have taken our faithful strivings out of the church and have given them over to new nasty means. We now shame others by imposing the perfection of political correctness....a tool to manipulate others. You have thoughts of race? Racist. Gender? Misogynistic pig. and on and on.

 

What used to be basically a spiritual response is now an objective response with intent. In other words, this tool allows us to impose some relative perfection on others with the intent to control and stifle rather than free and encourage.

 

Nasty nasty nasty...

 

this message has been brought to you by Serta Perfert Sleeper.....

 

 

Sorry End, but your argument is fatally flawed.

 

You ask us to compare and contrast two things.

One of them is a secular mode of behavior that requires no belief in the supernatural/spiritual to carry out.  

The other is a particular religious mode of behavior that requires a belief in the supernatural/spiritual to carry out.  

Therefore you are asking us to compare apples and oranges.  Which can't be done.  

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

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Gods grace: He sent his son to die for you, for by grace we are saved, now believe it or burn in hell.

 

Political correctness: A bunch of idiots who take the idea of 'correct' behavior too far and enforce it on everyone.

 

Both are fatally flawed ideas and detrimental to the human race. Both involved coercion and enforcement.

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You have thoughts of race? Racist. Gender? Misogynistic pig. and on and on.

I guess is depends on what you mean by "thoughts".  Can you be more specific?  I'm liberal, and, like many with that label, I try to be polite with my speech, but I don't like it when people are quickly accused of racism or misogyny without any questions being asked and answered.

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Like many things in our society, political correctness exists because grace simply doesn't work.

 

Our tax dollars go to feeding, housing, and clothing the less fortunate; but didn't jesus say we should sell our possessions and give to the poor? If grace actually worked, there'd be no need for secular charities or government subsidies. Not to mention, there'd be nothing for Burnedout to bitch about, which, for some, would be the very definition of grace.

 

Same goes for orphanages. christians want to legislate against abortion; but they couldn't care less what happens to the kid after it's born. If grace actually worked, every kid would have a home; even if god himself had to get up off his lazy ass to provide it.

 

Political correctness exists because, despite jesus' stern warning about hellfire, people of "grace" can't seem to keep themselves from calling their brother "idiot". Grace simply doesn't work.

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Looking at the responses, it appears we have Christians that fail in grace, Christians that come across as the better than you crowd in grace, and on occasion, those that have genuine Love and help us on our way. This all seems reasonable. But it doesn't escape me, that the majority of responses are the former, that grace, even when attempted to some taught level, comes off as less than appealing....and sends most of us in the other direction.

 

The logical question is, if our best attempts at being nice about someone's learning curve fails, then do we expect the very direct, shaming approach to succeed?

 

Additionally, we value this site because it allow us to speak freely. Shaming and persecution for being less than perfect closes that darkness further upon ourselves.

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I was a long time member of a Xian group that didn't have a clue what the biblical concept of grace was about. Their outreach programs, if they could even be called that, were pathetic.

 

My wife joined the Methodist Church last year and honesty dictates I acknowledge the Methodist outreach programs are off the charts fantastic. They are well organized & funded. The simply do an enormous amount of good works throughout the world. After the recent flooding & Hurricanes the Methodist were on site within 24-48 hours with fleets of trucks loaded with food, water, clothing, blankets & tools along with crews ready to offer assistance.

 

The problem with atheists is that they just don't have that level of organization & funding. They have the heart but not the means.

 

I need to add that the fundy Xian group I used to be associated with don't consider Methodist to be real Xians. Now, how funny is that?

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Gods grace: He sent his son to die for you, for by grace we are saved, now believe it or burn in hell.

 

Political correctness: A bunch of idiots who take the idea of 'correct' behavior too far and enforce it on everyone.

 

Both are fatally flawed ideas and detrimental to the human race. Both involved coercion and enforcement.

Bear with me, this is a new revelation for me.

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The logical question is, if our best attempts at being nice about someone's learning curve fails, then do we expect the very direct, shaming approach to succeed?

 

Most people are very slow to change bad behavior, if they change at all. Disapproving looks and "I'll pray for you" platitudes accomplish nothing. However, a good public shaming for unacceptable behavior demonstrates to others what society finds acceptable. Whether what the society, group, political party or religion finds acceptable is important or valid is another subject.

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Gods grace: He sent his son to die for you, for by grace we are saved, now believe it or burn in hell.

 

Political correctness: A bunch of idiots who take the idea of 'correct' behavior too far and enforce it on everyone.

 

Both are fatally flawed ideas and detrimental to the human race. Both involved coercion and enforcement.

 

 

God's grace (the undeserved deliverance from sin) relies on sin originating in Eden.

 

So, Biblical grace absolutely demands that the events in that garden be real history.  

 

If Eden wasn't real and wasn't historical, then there is no sin for God to deliver us from.

 

Meaning that Christian grace isn't real and isn't historical.

.

.

.

I consider this to be a fatal flaw in End's argument.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

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We are taking the bold assumption that End3 is referring to the christian concept of grace rather than just some random definition he has assigned to the word.

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Hi end3,

 

I would say that Christians as people, have always had a mixture of responses politically.  Lest we forget that the dominant cultural force in the South to retain the institution of slavery was indeed Christianity, though it was also used as a tool against it in the case of William Wilberforce.

 

I happen to be friends with more gracious Christians, but I do think that approach to political discourse is flawed.

 

1) Political Correctness, as much of a social force that it is, is not really all that prevalent in society anymore after this election.  Both candidates have enabled a level of discussion which approaches the quality of day-time television, and policy focused discussion which addresses the issues which are actually important to voters either goes unnoticed or addressed bombastically.

 

2) Graciousness has its place in political discourse, we need to not simply morally dismiss each other because of our perspectives.  Democracy in order to be effective demands this to a degree of course, as there are ideological perspectives or bigoted notions which don't really warrant entertaining. 

 

3) Sometimes it does require us in the realm of politics to speak out with passion and with an empathetic approach which can castigate certain individuals and institutions for harm done.  The reason for this is because politicians are accountable to their constituents, and we need to have higher standards for what can be tolerated by those who represent us in the decision making process for policies.  Simply having the approach of grace can leave a person silent and timid in the face of injustice.

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We are taking the bold assumption that End3 is referring to the christian concept of grace rather than just some random definition he has assigned to the word.

 

That's true, Prof.  

 

But until he sez otherwise, wouldn't his default setting in this thread be the Christian (i.e., Biblical) concept of grace?

 

However, if he is going with some non-Christian form of 'spirituality' to define grace, there are strong warnings in scripture against doing that.

 

1 Timothy 4 : 1

1 John 4 : 1

2 Peter 2 : 1

 

And 1 Corinthians 10 : 21, which doesn't just apply to food and drink and the Lord's Supper.    

Those who are born again of the Holy Spirit are treating their spiritual rebirth with contempt if they practice any other kind 'spirituality' than the one offered and promised by Jesus Christ.

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2) Graciousness has its place in political discourse, we need to not simply morally dismiss each other because of our perspectives.  Democracy in order to be effective demands this to a degree of course,

 

3) Sometimes it does require us in the realm of politics to speak out with passion and with an empathetic approach which can castigate certain individuals and institutions for harm done.  The reason for this is because politicians are accountable to their constituents, and we need to have higher standards for what can be tolerated by those who represent us in the decision making process for policies.  Simply having the approach of grace can leave a person silent and timid in the face of injustice.

Here's the point for me I guess. We live by laws because we can't define life/morality/existence appropriately for others. YET, we now have PC (and once a lesser form, the church lady), to bring our shortcomings to some level where we are fearful to share our perspectives. I do believe character is very important as it to me serves as an indicator. Just seems like mob mentality with a little bit of cheater thrown in.....on purpose.

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The logical question is, if our best attempts at being nice about someone's learning curve fails, then do we expect the very direct, shaming approach to succeed?

Most people are very slow to change bad behavior, if they change at all. Disapproving looks and "I'll pray for you" platitudes accomplish nothing. However, a good public shaming for unacceptable behavior demonstrates to others what society finds acceptable. Whether what the society, group, political party or religion finds acceptable is important or valid is another subject.

 

Witch! Witch!

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