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Goodbye Jesus

The Beginning Of The End


Rounin

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Dear Ex-Christians:

 

The beginning of the end for my Christian faith came when two friends told me of the unforgivable sin.

At the time I believed God to be benevolent and kind, and was confident that talk of old-testament punishments, furnaces of fire, weeping and gnashing of teeth and so on was metaphorical or exaggerated at best.

The notion that a benevolent and loving God would refuse to forgive someone for a mere utterance, even after they had repented, seemed shocking and somewhat laughable.

 

But I was also filled with an immense fear. Could that actually be the true nature of the God I had believed in all those years?

Not to mention, could I have committed this sin? Surely if interpreted in the worst possible way...

I couldn't believe God would be so petty and hostile, but it was hard to shake the feeling.

 

Around the same time, a friend told me a somewhat rude joke that might have fallen afoul of the rules, and I was filled with fear that his immortal soul was now in danger as well.

Worse yet, I became afraid that I could have retold it to someone else, putting them in danger as well. My memories were unclear, and left me with more questions than answers.

 

I was struck with a desire to track down anyone and everyone who might have heard and warn them.

Yet, in part due to incredulousness, and in part due to sheer dread and guilt, I couldn't bring myself to discuss it with anyone, and instead kept believing in my behevolent God, all the while unable to shake the fear that I was putting myself and others in grave danger.

 

After convincing myself sufficiently that my benevolent God did exist, I eventually began to study the Bible, from stoning to dead Egyptians to furnaces of fire, and found myself having to explain away uncomfortable parts more and more.

Why would an almighty God even send a single man on such a half-hearted mission to a random point in space and time to save humanity - from himself - knowing and even announcing in advance that it would partially fail?

My benevolent God was increasingly hard to find in the Bible, and instead became increasingly frightening and bizarre.

 

From time to time, I'd still occasionally hear or read something that reminded me of the unforgivable sin, and shudder with fear of hell, yet as time went on, my fear lessened more and more. I was shocked with myself, but as I reasoned with myself one night, "I just can't believe God would be like that."

In the next moment, a phrase formed itself in my thoughts: "I don't believe at all anymore"... and I realized it was true.

 

Years of weighing arguments and reading and debating and instrospection followed, and my beliefs now stand on a different foundation.

But it will always be my perception God's character that opened the door to criticism, and caused the rest to crumble.

And somewhere in the back of my mind will always be a remnant of the idea of God, and the dread, and the guilt.

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Dear Ex-Christians:

The beginning of the end for my Christian faith came when two friends told me of the unforgivable sin.
At the time I believed God to be benevolent and kind, and was confident that talk of old-testament punishments, furnaces of fire, weeping and gnashing of teeth and so on was metaphorical or exaggerated at best.
The notion that a benevolent and loving God would refuse to forgive someone for a mere utterance, even after they had repented, seemed shocking and somewhat laughable.

But I was also filled with an immense fear. Could that actually be the true nature of the God I had believed in all those years?
Not to mention, could I have committed this sin? Surely if interpreted in the worst possible way...
I couldn't believe God would be so petty and hostile, but it was hard to shake the feeling.

Around the same time, a friend told me a somewhat rude joke that might have fallen afoul of the rules, and I was filled with fear that his immortal soul was now in danger as well.
Worse yet, I became afraid that I could have retold it to someone else, putting them in danger as well. My memories were unclear, and left me with more questions than answers.

I was struck with a desire to track down anyone and everyone who might have heard and warn them.
Yet, in part due to incredulousness, and in part due to sheer dread and guilt, I couldn't bring myself to discuss it with anyone, and instead kept believing in my behevolent God, all the while unable to shake the fear that I was putting myself and others in grave danger.

After convincing myself sufficiently that my benevolent God did exist, I eventually began to study the Bible, from stoning to dead Egyptians to furnaces of fire, and found myself having to explain away uncomfortable parts more and more.
Why would an almighty God even send a single man on such a half-hearted mission to a random point in space and time to save humanity - from himself - knowing and even announcing in advance that it would partially fail?
My benevolent God was increasingly hard to find in the Bible, and instead became increasingly frightening and bizarre.

From time to time, I'd still occasionally hear or read something that reminded me of the unforgivable sin, and shudder with fear of hell, yet as time went on, my fear lessened more and more. I was shocked with myself, but as I reasoned with myself one night, "I just can't believe God would be like that."
In the next moment, a phrase formed itself in my thoughts: "I don't believe at all anymore"... and I realized it was true.

Years of weighing arguments and reading and debating and introspection followed, and my beliefs now stand on a different foundation.
But it will always be my perception God's character that opened the door to criticism, and caused the rest to crumble.
And somewhere in the back of my mind will always be a remnant of the idea of God, and the dread, and the guilt.

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Welcome Rounin,

 

Same thing happened to me - this god image I had morphed into some kind of psychopathic maniac who would torture someone, for all eternity, for the simply act of using one's brain (the "sin" of disbelief).

 

Always looking for the money angle, I could easily see how a sadistic, but enterprising, human begin could conjure up all of this shit so he could take advantage of the uneducated masses. You see how perfect is a scheme wherein you must think and act a certain way in order to avoid eternal punishment , but the goals is cleverly designed to prevent ANYONE from actually achieving it!

 

NOW, toss in a little "Pay your tithing and do as I say!" (not as I do, of course) "And you'll be fine." "Continue paying and doing because, if you cease these activities, you'll go straight to HELL - you HEATHEN!

 

Perfect scam. The early church leaders - including authors of the bable - must have been the first ripoff artists.

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Thanks for the warm welcome!

It's certainly a continual battle to try to meet a moral standard that's vaguely specified and counter-intuititve, especially when being a human being at the same time is almost an afterthought.

Being a moral human being can be a challenge in itself, but at least it helps to focus on issues that are actually real.

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Welcome Rounin!

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Welcome.

 

That happened to me about 3 years ago, and led to my deconversion.  It caused me nothing but fear and anxiety, as well as hatred toward religion.   

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Dear Ex-Christians: The beginning of the end for my Christian faith came when two friends told me of the unforgivable sin. At the time I believed God to be benevolent and kind, and was confident that talk of old-testament punishments, furnaces of fire, weeping and gnashing of teeth and so on was metaphorical or exaggerated at best. The notion that a benevolent and loving God would refuse to forgive someone for a mere utterance, even after they had repented, seemed shocking and somewhat laughable. But I was also filled with an immense fear. Could that actually be the true nature of the God I had believed in all those years? Not to mention, could I have committed this sin? Surely if interpreted in the worst possible way... I couldn't believe God would be so petty and hostile, but it was hard to shake the feeling. Around the same time, a friend told me a somewhat rude joke that might have fallen afoul of the rules, and I was filled with fear that his immortal soul was now in danger as well. Worse yet, I became afraid that I could have retold it to someone else, putting them in danger as well. My memories were unclear, and left me with more questions than answers. I was struck with a desire to track down anyone and everyone who might have heard and warn them. Yet, in part due to incredulousness, and in part due to sheer dread and guilt, I couldn't bring myself to discuss it with anyone, and instead kept believing in my behevolent God, all the while unable to shake the fear that I was putting myself and others in grave danger. After convincing myself sufficiently that my benevolent God did exist, I eventually began to study the Bible, from stoning to dead Egyptians to furnaces of fire, and found myself having to explain away uncomfortable parts more and more. Why would an almighty God even send a single man on such a half-hearted mission to a random point in space and time to save humanity - from himself - knowing and even announcing in advance that it would partially fail? My benevolent God was increasingly hard to find in the Bible, and instead became increasingly frightening and bizarre. From time to time, I'd still occasionally hear or read something that reminded me of the unforgivable sin, and shudder with fear of hell, yet as time went on, my fear lessened more and more. I was shocked with myself, but as I reasoned with myself one night, "I just can't believe God would be like that." In the next moment, a phrase formed itself in my thoughts: "I don't believe at all anymore"... and I realized it was true. Years of weighing arguments and reading and debating and instrospection followed, and my beliefs now stand on a different foundation. But it will always be my perception God's character that opened the door to criticism, and caused the rest to crumble. And somewhere in the back of my mind will always be a remnant of the idea of God, and the dread, and the guilt.

 

 

How each of us deals with deconversion is, in large part, inversely related to the religious indoctrination we received,  the peer pressure to which we have been exposed, and our own predilections, among other influences.  This can often help explain why there are many different stories of escape from the faith, adherence and commitment expected and demanded from those infected with the Christian virus.

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Hi Rounin,

 

I can definitely relate to your experience.  Moral ambivalence over facets of the Bible played a meaningful role in my deconversion story as well.

 

I was wondering, when this happened, did you find you were able to stop believing but still continue to hold onto basic human values like a belief in morality and a strong sense of meaning about your life and right away?  Or did you have to go through a period of time confused and relearning how to understand these facets of life because they'd always been understood from a foundationally theistic point of view for you before?

 

Thanks for sharing your story!

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Hi, CognitiveDissonanceReliefSquad!

 

That's an interesting question you pose. As I recall it, my moral values remained roughly the same throughout the entire process. Part of my difficulty in accepting christianity stemmed precisely from the fact that christianity itself deviates enormously from the values it teaches. Trying to bend my mind in order to make excuses for it and redefine those things as being good in a particular context became a difficult exercise.

 

The loss of belief in an eternal life after death was more of a bitter pill to swallow, but even as a christian, I'd often had doubt, and had considered that possibility already. I would say the hardest part of my deconversion was becoming much more aware of the frightening, fire-and-brimstone, weeping-and-gnashing-of-teeth side of Christianity than I'd actually been as a believer. The psychological terror it inflicts on people to try to get them to believe without evidence is quite ruthless, and it's not something that's easy to just think away.

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Also, thanks to cb1500 and sdelsolray for chiming in. Interesting to hear that someone else has had a similar experience.

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Hi Rounin, welcome to Ex-C

 

My church has always preached hellfire and brimstone, and God of judgement since I was a wee tot so I grew up believing that that was what God was like. We pretty much shunned the notion of a all loving God.

 

So I only started questioning the implications behind this thought after a lot of other stuff came unraveled for me.

 

For me it was reality didn't line up to what was in the bible. That's what started my questioning. Sure I'd read the verses we know so well and wondered why, but simply put it down to Gods, will, gods command, so be it.

 

I ended up developing a fear (Which still manifests itself) of the idea that I'm not quite right and God will judge me etc. On top of all this the world was all bad, out to get us, and has been ending for 32 years. F**** with your psyche as I'm sure many can attest.

 

I'm not sure how I actually came out, or broke free mentally. No matter what evidence I show my family the reject it out right and proclaim god is god, the world is ending, and what what happens with Trump. (And I'm like, but you said that with Bush, Obama, now Trump. WHICH ONE IS IT??)

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Thanks, LogicalFallacy, and thanks for sharing.

 

I can relate to the fear you mention. When you start out with the premise that you should believe, it can quickly become an exhausting session of mental whack-a-mole, where you dream up new mental models to fit the arbitrary and/or incomplete information that religion has provided you with. After all, religion tends to play on emotions and use metaphors, and not lend itself very well to rational analysis, as you hint at in your signature. There are always mysterious ways and such to keep logic at bay.

 

Hopefully, talking about it, as we're doing now, and which other "new atheists" are also known for doing, will be able to help more people deal with this anxiety.

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Reprogram your mental operating system by pondering deeply the following words: god is imaginary

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Lol I was doing that in Church on Sunday, during the singing:

 

"Touching Jesus is all that really matters..." Um ok, sure.. where is he?

 

"Standing somewhere in the shadows you'll find Jesus" ... err  no, I've looked in the shadows didn't find him, I looked on the mountain top and didn't see him, and when I talked to him, and he didn't respond.

 

"He's the friend who always cares and understands".... and the only one I have never seen, and says believe me or I'll throw you in hell.  

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Welcome to the forum

You know i never really thought about this..So, God will never forgive you for saying a word

I have heard of blasphemy of the holy spirit not to sure what it is

But, this is kind of childish isn't it?

I don't know the old testament God is kind of childish

A mere mortal Moses had to calm God down on numerous occasions

People say God is love

So, sending your kid to hell for all eternity is love?

I don't think i would do any kids i had like that

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Thanks!

Yes, it's a strange kind of love that involves the threat of eternal torture.

Christianity is as full of doublethink as any ideology, it would seem.

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  • 5 weeks later...

Hi, Rounin!

 

Many Christians have agonized that they have committed the unpardonable sin. Even if one today does believe the Bible he could easily ease his conscience concerning this sin by Google-ing the subject. Not so for the millions of believers of past ages (and those of today) who didn't or don't have access to Bible commentaries that clear up the misconception. How much needless agony of mind this has caused.

 

But the notion of an unpardonable sin along with the doctrine of hell are good examples of the many fears Christianity has recklessly instilled in people throughout the ages. If you're ever cornered by a zealous Christian "witnessing" to you ask him this: If God were to give you permission, and the ability, to abolish hell, would you do it? When you think about it either a yes or a no answer puts them in an undesirable position. A no answer would make them look like a psychopath. A yes answer makes them look more compassionate than their god. Of course, he could argue that the question is senseless and irrelevant. Actually, it's neither of these because, if they have an ounce of rationalism left, they're faced with the infinite cruelty of the doctrine of Hell. I think it's a question they'll not soon forget. You probably won't change anyone's mind but you just might get them thinking, and thinking is the enemy of religion. A well-known Christian apologist said concerning Jehovah's Witnesses: You won't get very far reasoning with them, all you can hope for is to create doubt. You can turn that tactic right back on Christians. Create doubt.

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The unforgivable sin is one no Christian seems to commit. There's some good YT videos on the subject. It also further exposes the shady nature of Jesus. "Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit?" Well, what in the holy fuck does that even mean? Can I think it? Do I say it? What if I just read it from someone else's thoughts on paper? "Aren't you gonna clarify that, Jesus? Or, are you going to let me wallow in confusion, uncertainty and paranoia throughout my entire Christian walk?"

 

*crickets*

 

Remember, this is the same guy that told some people they would not taste death before he setup his kingdom (after they specifically asked when he would come back). They're dead. 

 

When you really see the character of the god of the bible... You find that he really is not worthy of worship and unabated trust. It all seems to be lies propped up by threats. As you step back, it looks more and more like something man-made... Something someone would create to manipulate people. 

 

So many reasons to escape the faith... Peace, sanity and happiness are atop that list. 

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