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Goodbye Jesus

Israel


ironhorse

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The "Israel" that IronAss and his kind like to fantasize about is a military-industrial product of recent vintage, and only tenuously (and uncomfortably) connected to anything religious that resembles the Israel of the bible.

 

The vast majority of religious Jews living in Israel (many of whom are not of Middle-Eastern descent at all) are totally opposed to anything remotely smelling of Christ-inanity, especially the idiotic, intellectually-retarded lemming variety of people like IronHurl.

 

There's also no way that IronWhore can prove that Sunday worship as practiced by Christards is anything but a post-Jesus, post-Judaism Gentile-Christard invention.

 

Fact is, there's nothing remotely Jewish about what IronTurd and his kind practice as a religion, yet they have an unnatural "Israel" fetish because even a tangential connection to something CLAIMING to be descended from the tribes in the bible is enough to send these Christards into masturbatory ecstasy.

 

People like him really believe that a Jewish rabbi is going to represent a religion that has ignored and/or upended everything Jewish about the bible's teachings - a religion, by the way, that has been responsible for more anti-Semitism, both subtle and overt, than any other group on Earth.

 

Popes called for the death of Jews that would not convert. Martin Luther called for the same. The relegation of Jews in Christian circles to seasonal oddities or a religious novelty act ("Messianic Judaism") is proof positive that the only interest Christards have in an "Israel" is to validate their OWN existence, not to see themselves as inheritors of the Jews' legacy.

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At this point, with many expressing the great benefits their cultures/nations have given the world, am I allowed to pipe up with my own small nations achievements?

 

In a land that is referred to as Godzone (New Zealand) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God%27s_Own_Country(We'll ignore the other countries ok) we regularly punch above our weight on the wold stage on a population basis.

 

It was a New Zealander who first split the atom - Ernest Rutherford. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Rutherford

 

New Zealanders are currently developing world class rocket tech 86 KM from where I am sitting right now! http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/84299891/New-Zealand-space-industry-prepared-for-takeoff

 

There are many more examples, such as developing new medical procedures and medicines, world class farming practices etc. Right now I've fluffed out my feathers.... biggrin.png

 

So what can we learn from all these examples? Humans the world over are awesome and have learned to share developments with others.

 

Back to Ironhorse answering the serious questions asked.

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Once again I must refer Ironhorse to the words of the apostle Paul, so that he gains a proper (and not a heretical) understanding of the meaning of Genesis 12 : 3.

 

Galatians 3 : 7 - 9.

 

Understand, then, that those who have faith are children of Abraham.

Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”

So those who rely on faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

 

Genesis 12 : 3 refers only to the spiritual blessings of faith, the gospel and world-wide salvation.

Why?  Because it is God's gospel announced in advance of the birth of Jesus Christ.  It says nothing about the secular history of the nation of Israel or the cultural or scientific achievements of the Jews.  

 

Ironhorse, please confirm that you agree that this correct meaning of Genesis 12 : 3.

 

Please also confirm that you were wrong to take it to mean anything to do with the historical exploits of the nation of Israel.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

Ironhorse,

 

Please confirm that you agree that the highlighted explanation above is the correct meaning of Genesis 12 : 3.

 

Please also confirm that you were wrong to take it to mean anything to do with the historical exploits of the nation of Israel.

 

Thank you,

 

BAA.

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I'm trying to think of a scripture that supports why you would like to stir things up here, Ironhorse and am not coming up with anything.

 

Israel? Sure, we're Jews if we believe. If we're biological Jews and don't believe, then we're not Jews. Yah, yah, yah... We've read all that.

Ironhorse, is your mother Jewish by birth? I don't mean by born again birth, I mean by biological birth? If her mother was, and her mother, and her mother, and so on, and their mothers, than she was. If not, then she wasn't. If she was, then you were. If she wasn't, they you weren't. Biologically.

Just curious.

I'll say right now you're a Jew by belief, as your new testament says, just so you won't fill a page and argue it. Spare me that please. We get that part.

 

Sure, I agree, Israel contributes some great things to the world, Star Wars and Natalie Portman, Bono, Spock and JJ Abrams. But equally horrendous things. Its successes and its evils balance out. Some of the greatest corruption on the planet is seated in Israel. Israel drives the broken chariot named America, Ancient Rome to the power of 10.

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As someone whose biological mother is Jewish I'd say Israel has character, but I respect it no more and no less than any other nation or people on this planet. Maybe less actually. I don't like the fact that I was raised to cover my dick with my hands when marched into a shower with other naked men. I'm a man, Goddamnit. Arms to the sides. Be a man! Be proud.

Fucking shame. Guilt. Thanks a lot, Israel.

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Many groups of humans, more so in the past than in the present, identify themselves by the gene pool in which they are born and of which they are encouraged to reproduce.  The Jewish group is an example.  Historically, due to the limited travel and migration humans undertook (compared to modern times), these gene pools often lived on the same land for quite some time.

 

The Jewish group, like many others did this but many members moved away from the ancestral lands.  However, many in the group kept reproducing within the gene pool.  Many did not.  In 1948, the Jewish State of Israel was created and many scattered Jews moved back to the ancestral lands.

 

All that, and the Jewish group, like many other groups, maintained cultural and societal elements over time.

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A thread on all things Israel.

 

 

I thought I would start with this promised blessing from Genesis 12:

 

‘’…and all peoples on earth

will be blessed through you.”

 

I think we can agree that the world has benefited and been enriched by the Jewish peoples contributions and achievements in literature, music, technology, science, and medicine.

 

 

 

Before this thread goes too far Ironhorse, please tell us if your replies to any questions put to you will be...

 

A  A clear and definitive answer

B. You just giving your view on the matter

C. You speculating about this passage of scripture

D. Something else

 

I ask because your Oct 14 answer to LogicalFallacy's question about Genesis 4 in this thread...  http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/74143-in-the-beginning/#.WBpDPS2LSpo   ... was this.

 

Since Adam lived several hundred years, having lots of children was not a problem.  This would mean that Cain married a sister, niece, or some other relation, and their children had children, etc.

The genetic line in these early times was pure. So the prohibition against incest was not yet proclaimed.

 

Which looked to us like a clear and definitive answer you can be held accountable to.

But since yesterday you've told us that you were 'just giving your view' on his question.  Neither LogicalFallacy nor I had any idea that were you doing this.  We had to wait almost three weeks to find out what you were just giving your view.  And we only found out after persistent and repeated requests from both of us, for you to commit yourself on the matter.  So, to avoid this sort of thing happening again, can you please tell us from get go when you are giving a clear and definitive answer that you can be accountable to ...and when you aren't?

 

If you can't be straight with us about Genesis 4, why should we believe you are going to be straight with us about any questions put to you about Genesis 12?

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

 

Ironhorse,

 

Would you please tell us if your replies to any of our questions here will be...

 

A  Clear and definitive answers

B. You just giving your view on the matter

C. You speculating about this passage of scripture

D. Something else

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

 

Hello Ironhorse.

 

It appears that a computer glitch has robbed us of several posts in this thread, resetting our dialog back a number of days.  

Therefore, would you please be so good as to restate your position re my quoted post, above.  Please note that you don't need to add anything (like, "I will do my best") to the four options, because they give you more than enough scope to let us know how you will be replying to our questions in this thread.  All you need to do is select from them. If you won't be giving clear and and definitive answers, nor just giving your view, nor just speculating about Genesis 12 : 3, then please select D and explain just what it is that you will be doing in response to our questions. That way we will know in advance what to expect from you and will respond accordingly.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

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Yes the site went down yesterday for quite some time.

BAA I am trying to send you a private message, but says you cannot receive messages at this time. Do you accept messages, if so is your inbox at the limit?

Cheers
LF

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Yes the site went down yesterday for quite some time.

 

BAA I am trying to send you a private message, but says you cannot receive messages at this time. Do you accept messages, if so is your inbox at the limit?

 

Cheers

LF

 

Try again now, LF.

 

My bad for not shifting a pile of messages over to storage.

 

The logjam's clear now, so go ahead please.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

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A thread on all things Israel.

 

 

I thought I would start with this promised blessing from Genesis 12:

 

‘’…and all peoples on earth

will be blessed through you.”

 

I think we can agree that the world has benefited and been enriched by the Jewish peoples contributions and achievements in literature, music, technology, science, and medicine.

 

 

 

Before this thread goes too far Ironhorse, please tell us if your replies to any questions put to you will be...

 

A  A clear and definitive answer

B. You just giving your view on the matter

C. You speculating about this passage of scripture

D. Something else

 

I ask because your Oct 14 answer to LogicalFallacy's question about Genesis 4 in this thread...  http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/74143-in-the-beginning/#.WBpDPS2LSpo   ... was this.

 

Since Adam lived several hundred years, having lots of children was not a problem.  This would mean that Cain married a sister, niece, or some other relation, and their children had children, etc.

The genetic line in these early times was pure. So the prohibition against incest was not yet proclaimed.

 

Which looked to us like a clear and definitive answer you can be held accountable to.

But since yesterday you've told us that you were 'just giving your view' on his question.  Neither LogicalFallacy nor I had any idea that were you doing this.  We had to wait almost three weeks to find out what you were just giving your view.  And we only found out after persistent and repeated requests from both of us, for you to commit yourself on the matter.  So, to avoid this sort of thing happening again, can you please tell us from get go when you are giving a clear and definitive answer that you can be accountable to ...and when you aren't?

 

If you can't be straight with us about Genesis 4, why should we believe you are going to be straight with us about any questions put to you about Genesis 12?

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

 

Ironhorse,

 

Would you please tell us if your replies to any of our questions here will be...

 

A  Clear and definitive answers

B. You just giving your view on the matter

C. You speculating about this passage of scripture

D. Something else

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

 

Hello Ironhorse.

 

It appears that a computer glitch has robbed us of several posts in this thread, resetting our dialog back a number of days.  

Therefore, would you please be so good as to restate your position re my quoted post, above.  Please note that you don't need to add anything (like, "I will do my best") to the four options, because they give you more than enough scope to let us know how you will be replying to our questions in this thread.  All you need to do is select from them. If you won't be giving clear and and definitive answers, nor just giving your view, nor just speculating about Genesis 12 : 3, then please select D and explain just what it is that you will be doing in response to our questions. That way we will know in advance what to expect from you and will respond accordingly.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

 

BAA, what if we stopped chasing Ironhorse down (which I did a while ago), and let Ironhorse start chasing us if he really cares? He has the burden of proof because he is bringing the claims, right? 

 

If he can't bring the power, who cares, you know? 

 

By now, even the lurkers must be tired of him. 

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BAA, what if we stopped chasing Ironhorse down (which I did a while ago), and let Ironhorse start chasing us if he really cares? He has the burden of proof because he is bringing the claims, right? 

 

If he can't bring the power, who cares, you know? 

 

By now, even the lurkers must be tired of him. 

 

 

Dude,

 

You are right, that he has the burden of proof.

But that fact doesn't remove our duty to the lurkers - tired or otherwise.  I like to think of our role as being similar to that of NORAD.  A watch must be kept at all times to safeguard the well being of those we have committed ourselves to helping.  When a potential threat becomes known, it is kept under surveillance and if necessary is met with a challenge.  It doesn't matter how inept or lacking that threat appears to be.  The watch must be maintained.  If we are lulled into a false sense of security by half-assed arguments, non sequiturs and appeals to faith, then we are failing in our duty and doing a disservice to the lurkers and to our fellow members.

 

http://www.norad.mil/

 

Please don't forget that this particular threat is a long-standing one who doesn't lack for stubborns.

That in of itself requires us to match his stubborns, post for post if possible and certainly thread for thread.  For instance, every time the Westboro nutjobs threatened a grieving family the Patriotic Guard was there, ready and willing to do their duty.  They'd be failing the very people they've committed themselves to serve and protect if they dropped the ball, even once.  Am I right, Dude?

 

https://www.patriotguard.org/content.php?s=e65131e09cef9f93610976faa3ba144f

 

So it (more or less) goes for us.  Not exactly the same, but certainly similar.  Not all across the land, but just here in this forum.

As Lions who patrol the Den we have volunteered to meet any and all attempts by the Christians to win the hearts and minds of others back for Christ.  We do this refuting arguments, by exposing Biblical contradictions and by pointing out where and how Christian behavior is not Christ-like.  James 2 : 14 - 24 is relevant here, especially the last verse.  "You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone."  The Christians who post in the Den may not lack for faith, but what they do is demonstrably NOT righteous... and it falls to us to spotlight every instance of this.  By doing so we highlight the glaring contrast between what they write and what they do.  And doing this consistently robs them of any power to influence, coerce or shame the waverers and lurkers into returning to Christ.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

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I agree with BAA. I think its fair to say that we are not trying to convert Ironhorse. Should he start to follow the evidence, then that is great, however it is to those searching or lost that we try to help.

 

You guys might not realise the positive impact this forum had on me, and I have no doubt that this site positively impacts people that we never get to hear about, that never sign up, but who nevertheless are helped and able to clarify questions they had.

 

I would actually welcome more Christians posting here so people can get a proper view of reasoned arguments against the bible that they otherwise wouldn't get. (Example, ultimately formal debates on youtube only go so far, and dance around meta issues - they don't get into the gritty stuff like we do here in the den.)

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Lurkers and shit, dude.

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Before I continue here, I wanted to say the following:

 

 

I realize that some have left the Christian faith or have been turned away from the faith when they read or hear of difficult passages in the scriptures where war and killing is described. Since I have been a member here, this has been discussed on more than one thread. No doubt it will be brought up again as a critical factor in a negative view of Israel and rejecting the scriptures. I will post my views on modern day Israel and surrounding neighbors later. 

 

 

I taught 7th grade language arts for years. I taught grammar but my main focus was literature and improving reading skills and comprehension. I say this to confirm that I am very aware that many students DO NOT READ. Many of my students would read only if they were forced to read. In every class I usually had only a few students who read books on their own.

 

This low reading rate also applies to adults. The latest Pew Research poll concluded that only 23% of U.S. adults read books. I think that low percent can also apply to some Christians. I know several Christians that I doubt have ever read these difficult passages. I seriously doubt if they have read the Bible cover to cover.

 

I knew at age 10 that David took Goliath’s sword and cut off his head. This bloody act is hardly ever mentioned in Sunday Schools. I also read these other passages about war and wiping out an entire people. I did not understand why at first reading. It did take me time, as I grew older, to study the historical context and gain more understanding.

 

One incident I remember that highlights this “not reading or studying” a passage or seeking understanding of its historical context happened many years ago at church. It is also a good example on why you should double check an answer given by another person.

 

We were having a revival meeting. A few of us were in the study with the preacher conducting the revival. A few nights before he had delivered his sermon on the sin of drinking alcohol and one of the men asked him a question. He did not understand why they drank wine at the Last Supper if the scriptures forbid its use. He replied that it was not wine but grape juice they drank. That’s why Baptist use grape juice was the thought that was conveyed.

I didn’t say anything. I like to pick my battles and did not feel like a battling with this preacher so I walk out quietly. The Last Supper took place in the spring. The grape harvest in Israel is in October. It wasn’t until the late 19th century that grape juice could be preserved. During the time of Jesus they often added water to wine, but either way, it was wine used at the Last Supper.

 

My point is that READING IS VERY IMPORTANT.

 

I have been able through reading and studying finding, what I THINK, are reasonable explanations concerning these difficult passages in the Bible.

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Before I continue here, I wanted to say the following:

 

 

I realize that some have left the Christian faith or have been turned away from the faith when they read or hear of difficult passages in the scriptures where war and killing is described. Since I have been a member here, this has been discussed on more than one thread. No doubt it will be brought up again as a critical factor in a negative view of Israel and rejecting the scriptures. I will post my views on modern day Israel and surrounding neighbors later. 

 

 

I taught 7th grade language arts for years. I taught grammar but my main focus was literature and improving reading skills and comprehension. I say this to confirm that I am very aware that many students DO NOT READ. Many of my students would read only if they were forced to read. In every class I usually had only a few students who read books on their own.

 

This low reading rate also applies to adults. The latest Pew Research poll concluded that only 23% of U.S. adults read books. I think that low percent can also apply to some Christians. I know several Christians that I doubt have ever read these difficult passages. I seriously doubt if they have read the Bible cover to cover.

 

I knew at age 10 that David took Goliath’s sword and cut off his head. This bloody act is hardly ever mentioned in Sunday Schools. I also read these other passages about war and wiping out an entire people. I did not understand why at first reading. It did take me time, as I grew older, to study the historical context and gain more understanding.

 

One incident I remember that highlights this “not reading or studying” a passage or seeking understanding of its historical context happened many years ago at church. It is also a good example on why you should double check an answer given by another person.

 

We were having a revival meeting. A few of us were in the study with the preacher conducting the revival. A few nights before he had delivered his sermon on the sin of drinking alcohol and one of the men asked him a question. He did not understand why they drank wine at the Last Supper if the scriptures forbid its use. He replied that it was not wine but grape juice they drank. That’s why Baptist use grape juice was the thought that was conveyed.

I didn’t say anything. I like to pick my battles and did not feel like a battling with this preacher so I walk out quietly. The Last Supper took place in the spring. The grape harvest in Israel is in October. It wasn’t until the late 19th century that grape juice could be preserved. During the time of Jesus they often added water to wine, but either way, it was wine used at the Last Supper.

 

My point is that READING IS VERY IMPORTANT.

 

I have been able through reading and studying finding, what I THINK, are reasonable explanations concerning these difficult passages in the Bible.

This post was proudly sponsored by Reading RainbowTM.

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Ironhorse

 

My point is that READING IS VERY IMPORTANT.

Let the trumpets sound, let the world proclaim. Ironhorse and I agree 100% on something... from opposing views but we agree!

 

Yes, when you actually read the bible, and read it with an honest critical mind, and do your research, you'll find that any 'reasonable explanation' by a Christian is mental gymnastics on their part so they can get their thinking and the bible in line. I know, I used to do this myself with great success.

 

BTW Ironhorse I'm not sure how many people have been "turned away from the faith" just by reading a few difficult passages. I think you'll find that upon reading a few difficult passages most people who leave begin to question. Should they follow the evidence and critical thinking honestly they find, not one or two things wrong with the bible, but a mountain of evidence pointing against it being the holy word of an omnipotent God.

 

Now, can you answer some of our Israel queries instead of beating about the proverbial burning bush located heaven knows where.

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I have been able through reading and studying finding, what I THINK, are reasonable explanations concerning these difficult passages in the Bible.

The phrase, "difficult passages in the Bible" is deliberately vague.

 

Such passages present:

contradictions

historical inaccuracies

scientific inaccuracies

moral atrocities as though they are desired by God

unfulfilled prophecies

 

etc.

 

Would you consider a legal argument, in which it was claimed that a witness jumped over a house or that A and not-A are both true in the same respect, a "difficult" legal argument, for the jury to accept because reasons and mystery?

 

Since you allow no conditions under which your belief system could IN PRINCIPLE be falsified, I take nothing you say as of any value.

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This post was proudly sponsored by Reading RainbowTM.

 

Haha, point taken prof. If I may make a corollary to this: you might be surprised to know that I think American high school education should include at least two semesters on the Christian Bible. From a decidedly atheist perspective, of course. However it should be taught. Despite my cultural influence in another direction, I'll freely admit that America has a largely Western and European history. Western culture is part of the American ethos, and many aspects of this culture cannot be properly understood apart from Christianity and the Bible. Go ahead and force students to read the damned thing. Let them learn that David cut off Goliath's head with a sword after killing him with his sling, that Moses was forbidden to enter the Promised Land because he struck a rock instead of speaking to it, and that some random guy ran away naked as Jesus was being arrested by the Romans. I think that a lot of Bible's appeal owes to its mystique. Nobody reads the thing, so everyone just accepts that it must be divinely inspired by a European bearded guy who sends Hindus to eternal hell in his spare time. Whatever else one might say about the Bible, no one can deny its potent influence on Western literature. Surely LeVar Burton would want the next generation of Americans to be educated concerning the idiotic stories that inspire more thoughtful western works.

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Before I continue here, I wanted to say the following:

 

 

I realize that some have left the Christian faith or have been turned away from the faith when they read or hear of difficult passages in the scriptures where war and killing is described. Since I have been a member here, this has been discussed on more than one thread. No doubt it will be brought up again as a critical factor in a negative view of Israel and rejecting the scriptures. I will post my views on modern day Israel and surrounding neighbors later. 

 

 

I taught 7th grade language arts for years. I taught grammar but my main focus was literature and improving reading skills and comprehension. I say this to confirm that I am very aware that many students DO NOT READ. Many of my students would read only if they were forced to read. In every class I usually had only a few students who read books on their own.

 

This low reading rate also applies to adults. The latest Pew Research poll concluded that only 23% of U.S. adults read books. I think that low percent can also apply to some Christians. I know several Christians that I doubt have ever read these difficult passages. I seriously doubt if they have read the Bible cover to cover.

 

I knew at age 10 that David took Goliath’s sword and cut off his head. This bloody act is hardly ever mentioned in Sunday Schools. I also read these other passages about war and wiping out an entire people. I did not understand why at first reading. It did take me time, as I grew older, to study the historical context and gain more understanding.

 

One incident I remember that highlights this “not reading or studying” a passage or seeking understanding of its historical context happened many years ago at church. It is also a good example on why you should double check an answer given by another person.

 

We were having a revival meeting. A few of us were in the study with the preacher conducting the revival. A few nights before he had delivered his sermon on the sin of drinking alcohol and one of the men asked him a question. He did not understand why they drank wine at the Last Supper if the scriptures forbid its use. He replied that it was not wine but grape juice they drank. That’s why Baptist use grape juice was the thought that was conveyed.

I didn’t say anything. I like to pick my battles and did not feel like a battling with this preacher so I walk out quietly. The Last Supper took place in the spring. The grape harvest in Israel is in October. It wasn’t until the late 19th century that grape juice could be preserved. During the time of Jesus they often added water to wine, but either way, it was wine used at the Last Supper.

 

My point is that READING IS VERY IMPORTANT.

 

I have been able through reading and studying finding, what I THINK, are reasonable explanations concerning these difficult passages in the Bible.

 

If reading is so very important Ironhorse, what about the flip side... writing?  

 

Specifically, what you write as a clear and definitive answer to a question on one day and then what you write on another?

 

When you then claim you were just giving your view about it or speculating about it?

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A thread on all things Israel.

 

 

I thought I would start with this promised blessing from Genesis 12:

 

‘’…and all peoples on earth

will be blessed through you.”

 

I think we can agree that the world has benefited and been enriched by the Jewish peoples contributions and achievements in literature, music, technology, science, and medicine.

 

And yet, they too will be shunned by God on the day of judgement, despite all those benefits. The irony... 

 

 

 

And yet, they too will be shunned by God on the day of judgement, despite all those benefits. The irony...

~ rjn

 

I’m glad you acknowledge their many contributions to the world. Concerning them being shunned by God.

I admit there are many who think that way and some I know call themselves Christian. 

 

The following are my first thoughts.

 

During my time at the street mission and coffee house, a Messianic Jew attended our Bible studies for about three years. He spoke several times to us about, as a Jew, how he came to accept Yeshua as the promised Messiah.

 

This is a good site that explains it much like he did. 

http://www.hebrew-streams.org/works/judaism/reject.html

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A thread on all things Israel.

 

 

I thought I would start with this promised blessing from Genesis 12:

 

‘’…and all peoples on earth

will be blessed through you.”

 

I think we can agree that the world has benefited and been enriched by the Jewish peoples contributions and achievements in literature, music, technology, science, and medicine.

And yet, they too will be shunned by God on the day of judgement, despite all those benefits. The irony...

 

And yet, they too will be shunned by God on the day of judgement, despite all those benefits. The irony...

~ rjn

 

I’m glad you acknowledge their many contributions to the world. Concerning them being shunned by God.

I admit there are many who think that way and some I know call themselves Christian.

 

The following are my first thoughts.

 

During my time at the street mission and coffee house, a Messianic Jew attended our Bible studies for about three years. He spoke several times to us about, as a Jew, how he came to accept Yeshua as the promised Messiah.

 

This is a good site that explains it much like he did.

http://www.hebrew-streams.org/works/judaism/reject.html

the following are YOUR THOUGHTS?

 

what fucking thoughts are those. I don't see you putting your thoughts in anyway except other people's quotes songs and bible passages

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A thread on all things Israel.

 

 

I thought I would start with this promised blessing from Genesis 12:

 

‘’…and all peoples on earth

will be blessed through you.”

 

I think we can agree that the world has benefited and been enriched by the Jewish peoples contributions and achievements in literature, music, technology, science, and medicine.

mention that to the people of gaza and all of palestine. And you will see how wrong you are.

 

 

 

First, I think the people of Gaza, along with a lot of the world, should go back and study the history of the region.

 

“In 1947, the UN adopted a partition plan for a two-state solution in the remaining territory of the mandate. The plan was accepted by the Jewish leadership but rejected by the Arab leaders, and Britain refused to implement the plan. On the eve of final British withdrawal, the Jewish Agency for Israel declared the establishment of the State of Israel according to the proposed UN plan. The Arab Higher Committee did not declare a state of its own and instead, together with Transjordan, Egypt, and the other members of the Arab League of the time, commenced military action resulting in the 1948 Arab–Israeli War.”

 

~ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Palestine

 

 

I posted that quote and the link below for members who are interested in reading more on the history concerning the current conflict concerning Israel’s presence in the Middle East.

I welcome members to post quotes or links or whatever that disproves these views I post or hold an opposing view as to their meaning.

 

“The term "Palestine" came from the name that the conquering Roman Empire gave the ancient Land of Israel in an attempt to obliterate and de-legitimize the Jewish presence in the Holy Land. The Roman Procurator in charge of the Judean-Israel territories was so angry at the Jews for revolting that he called for his historians and asked them who were the worst enemies of the Jews in their past history. The scribes said, ‘the Philistines."  So, the Procurator declared that Land of Israel would from then on be called "Philistia" [further bastardized into "Palaistina"] to dishonor the Jews and obliterate their history.”

 

http://www.newswithviews.com/israel/israel14.htm

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And yet, they too will be shunned by God on the day of judgement, despite all those benefits. The irony...

~ rjn

 

I’m glad you acknowledge their many contributions to the world.

 

But Jews have also been disproportionately influential in secular sciences, are often politically liberal (and therefor pro-secular, at least outside Israel) and many of the leading atheist and secular spokespersons have at least partial Jewish heritage: Sagan, Hitchens, Harris... Are they also a blessing to the World according to your standards? Aren't they, after all, just like any other people of the World?

 

Ah well, here's a blessing for you:

 

 

 

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And yet, they too will be shunned by God on the day of judgement, despite all those benefits. The irony...

~ rjn

 

I’m glad you acknowledge their many contributions to the world.

 

But Jews have also been disproportionately influential in secular sciences, are often politically liberal (and therefor pro-secular, at least outside Israel) and many of the leading atheist and secular spokespersons have at least partial Jewish heritage: Sagan, Hitchens, Harris... Are they also a blessing to the World according to your standards? Aren't they, after all, just like any other people of the World?

 

Ah well, here's a blessing for you:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for posting the video.

 

One of my friends in FB posted this: “He will be missed but oh the music he left us with... Canadian singer, songwriter Leonard Cohen has passed... perhaps he has finally heard "David's secret chord that pleased the Lord"

 

 

 

 

I agree with you about many Jews being socialists, liberals, atheists and whatever. I know, but that does not dismiss their contributions to the world. I was not just thinking of orthodox Jews or Messianic Jews. 

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