Narnia

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I had an epiphany yesterday on account of a certain beloved children's story being recently added to Netflix.  When Peter, Susan, Edmund, and Lucy entered Narnia, they were wearing fur coats!  Fur coats!  In a country inhabited by talking, sentient, self-aware animals, they showed up in FUR.

 

I don't think C.S. Lewis really thought that through very well.  Imagine if visitors from another dimension showed up here on earth wearing HUMAN SKIN.  Nicely tanned, supple, human skin coats.  Prophecy or not, we'd be suspicious, don't you think?

 

Sorry Ironhorse.  I know C.S. Lewis is one of your heroes; but this is yet another example of why he was, at best, a mediocre writer of mediocre fantasy.

[Jeff]

They ate meat as long as it was regular animals.

Great children's books but not worthy of the LOTR treatment attempted.

 

By the way I still think the Space Trilogy he did was pretty cool and I absolutely love Til We Have Faces. Stupid bookstores put this book in the religious section because he wrote it. It's a retelling of Greek myth and I want it in hardback someday

[rjn]

At least Tolkien was consistent about it: Gandalf explicitly told the dwarves to NOT wear fur in the presence of the bear-man Beorn!

[Jeff]

BTW He does nothing to convince me toward religion. He's got nothing I've ever seen. If anything Lewis watered down religious belief for me.

[rjn]

BTW He does nothing to convince me toward religion. He's got nothing I've ever seen. If anything Lewis watered down religious belief for me.

 

For what it is, I can actually appreciate Lewis' view on religion. Same goes for his friend Tolkien for that matter. Lewis seemed a lot more down to Earth about it than many other apologists. Neither he nor Tolkien were mouth-breathing fundies, but well-cultured intellectuals who knew how to appreciate philosophy and pagan myths.

 

His Trilemma is shit though, and makes even less sense than Pascal's Wager.

[sdelsolray]

 

BTW He does nothing to convince me toward religion. He's got nothing I've ever seen. If anything Lewis watered down religious belief for me.

 

For what it is, I can actually appreciate Lewis' view on religion. Same goes for his friend Tolkien for that matter. Lewis seemed a lot more down to Earth about it than many other apologists. Neither he nor Tolkien were mouth-breathing fundies, but well-cultured intellectuals who knew how to appreciate philosophy and pagan myths.

 

His Trilemma is shit though, and makes even less sense than Pascal's Wager.

 

 

 

Lewis' trilemma is a false trilemma.  There are other choices, and one of those choices even starts with an "L" (i.e., 'Legend').

[disillusioned]

I've got a soft spot in my heart for Narnia to this day. It's a children's fantasy, and it isn't the best that there is, but there is something magically captivating about it.

 

On the fur coat issue, if I recall correctly, there were both talking and non-talking beasts in Narnia. The non-talking beasts were permissible as a food source, and presumably as a source for clothing as well. So I would guess that he inhabitants would just have assumed that the fur coats were sourced from "normal" animals.

[Castiel233]

Even thou I loved the Narnia series I could sense there was something "off" about it , even as a youngster I thought all that "Sons of Adam and Daughters of Eve" was odd.Now I know it was a sly retelling of Christianity, which I didn't get back then, but I still sensed there was something "afoot" 

[♦ ficino ♦]

I liked some stuff in the Narnia stories, but on the whole, I find them annoying. But then, why would Lewis care what I think?

 

I recall him arguing that people who say that God as depicted in the Bible does evil things, or even is evil, reveal they already believe in God, because they invoke a standard of good and evil. And that, Lewis triumphantly concludes, requires God. 

 

Typical circular crock.

[Castiel233]

I liked some stuff in the Narnia stories, but on the whole, I find them annoying. But then, why would Lewis care what I think?

 

I recall him arguing that people who say that God as depicted in the Bible does evil things, or even is evil, reveal they already believe in God, because they invoke a standard of good and evil. And that, Lewis triumphantly concludes, requires God. 

 

Typical circular crock.

The trouble with that sort of Christian thinking is clear to me:

 

God approves of slavery, humans have decided it is wrong. So our sense of goodness is at odds with gods. I hear what Lewis is saying, but I think he is way off. 

[Voice]

By chance I watched it recently on netflix, with some difficulty. A few times I said, "ugh, I don't know why I'm watching this..."

The sons of Adam and daughters of Eve established from the onset that this was going to be a christian story.

 

What I found most cringing was how they staged it the bit with the lion's self sacrifice, how they played it, gave it the same exact pompous air they gave Jesus movies of the '70's. Superficial. Like the face on the famous white Jesus painting that hangs in a cheap frame in so many homes. Pompous. Feigned. I hate that. That air is one of the things that had me running like hell from christianity and remains among my most embarrassing memories. I came off like that.

 

But I'm just criticizing the movie. The books weren't as bad. As a kid they were great. If my mom hadn't told me it was analogous to the jesus story, I never would have known.

[◊ crazyguy123 ◊]

I had an epiphany yesterday on account of a certain beloved children's story being recently added to Netflix.  When Peter, Susan, Edmund, and Lucy entered Narnia, they were wearing fur coats!  Fur coats!  In a country inhabited by talking, sentient, self-aware animals, they showed up in FUR.

 

I don't think C.S. Lewis really thought that through very well.  Imagine if visitors from another dimension showed up here on earth wearing HUMAN SKIN.  Nicely tanned, supple, human skin coats.  Prophecy or not, we'd be suspicious, don't you think?

 

Sorry Ironhorse.  I know C.S. Lewis is one of your heroes; but this is yet another example of why he was, at best, a mediocre writer of mediocre fantasy.

 

Well, if I were there to greet those visitors from another dimension, I'd probably ask, "Ooh! Where can I get one of those?"

[midniterider]

I had an epiphany yesterday on account of a certain beloved children's story being recently added to Netflix.  When Peter, Susan, Edmund, and Lucy entered Narnia, they were wearing fur coats!  Fur coats!  In a country inhabited by talking, sentient, self-aware animals, they showed up in FUR.

 

I don't think C.S. Lewis really thought that through very well.  Imagine if visitors from another dimension showed up here on earth wearing HUMAN SKIN.  Nicely tanned, supple, human skin coats.  Prophecy or not, we'd be suspicious, don't you think?

 

Sorry Ironhorse.  I know C.S. Lewis is one of your heroes; but this is yet another example of why he was, at best, a mediocre writer of mediocre fantasy.

 

Is Narnia a work of fiction or scientific research paper?

 

Suspends disbelief about talking animals.

Cant suspend disbelief about animals' acceptance of fur coats.

[midniterider]

 

I had an epiphany yesterday on account of a certain beloved children's story being recently added to Netflix.  When Peter, Susan, Edmund, and Lucy entered Narnia, they were wearing fur coats!  Fur coats!  In a country inhabited by talking, sentient, self-aware animals, they showed up in FUR.

 

I don't think C.S. Lewis really thought that through very well.  Imagine if visitors from another dimension showed up here on earth wearing HUMAN SKIN.  Nicely tanned, supple, human skin coats.  Prophecy or not, we'd be suspicious, don't you think?

 

Sorry Ironhorse.  I know C.S. Lewis is one of your heroes; but this is yet another example of why he was, at best, a mediocre writer of mediocre fantasy.

 

Well, if I were there to greet those visitors from another dimension, I'd probably ask, "Ooh! Where can I get one of those?"

 

 

Can a human skin coat really keep you warm? Maybe kind of a windbreaker.

[Lilith666]

In Narnia, there were Talking Animals and non-talking animals. The talkers were on a level with humans; the non-talkers were equivalent to animals in the Pevensies' world. Fur clothes probably weren't uncommon.

 

The Chronicles of Narnia has a special status as part of my introduction to fantasy and child culture in fiction, and therefore is a sort of predecessor to Game of Thrones and Stranger Things. I remain loyal despite the irritating Christian message marring it.

[Bhim]

 

I had an epiphany yesterday on account of a certain beloved children's story being recently added to Netflix. When Peter, Susan, Edmund, and Lucy entered Narnia, they were wearing fur coats! Fur coats! In a country inhabited by talking, sentient, self-aware animals, they showed up in FUR.

 

I don't think C.S. Lewis really thought that through very well. Imagine if visitors from another dimension showed up here on earth wearing HUMAN SKIN. Nicely tanned, supple, human skin coats. Prophecy or not, we'd be suspicious, don't you think?

 

Sorry Ironhorse. I know C.S. Lewis is one of your heroes; but this is yet another example of why he was, at best, a mediocre writer of mediocre fantasy.

Is Narnia a work of fiction or scientific research paper?

 

Suspends disbelief about talking animals.

Cant suspend disbelief about animals' acceptance of fur coats.

I suppose it's an issue of internal consistency. I can accept that there are Jedi knights who can use The Force to perform telekenesis. But once you've gotten me to accept that and have lain out some further rules of the universe, I can't accept that an injured Kylo Ren would have trouble Force-grabbing his lightsaber just hours after stopping a laser beam dead in its tracks.

 

So I think fur coats is a fair point to raise, even if it's ultimately explained by the lesser animals bit.

[♦ ficino ♦]

There is a lot of discussion about the character Susan over at Libby Anne's blog on Patheos. I had forgotten all about Susan. Susan is the older sister, who at the end is no longer part of the action in Narnia because she's into lipstick, nylons, and invitations, i.e. moving into an adult's life, including an interest in sex. Lewis himself described her later on as frivolous but not yet dead, so not necessarily damned. Since then, some people have written stories w/ Susan as the main character, becoming a nurse and such after her family is killed and she's left as the only survivor.

 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2016/12/i-am-susan.html#disqus_thread

[Lilith666]

A few years after originally reading it I wondered if there was a bit of sexism around the Susan thing - i.e., because she's interested in boys and clothes and parties (being a normal teenager, which she'll likely grow out of being totally fascinated with when she gets older) it makes her shallow. Lucy and Jill were a little young to be into that, and Polly was in her sixties or seventies; any of them might have gone the same way around Susan's age. Actually, it seems a little like Susan got abandoned: if "once a king or queen in Narnia, always a king or queen" is true, why didn't anyone intervene? Just because she's going through an adolescent phase, she gets dumped? Seems like if the Narnians could go on a quest to find a magical apple and fight the White Witch and escape slave traders and everything else, they could make some effort to save one of their queens.

 

I object to Libby Anne's claim that Narnia was a childhood phase for Susan. The Pevensies grew up in Narnia as they would have in their own world, so that they must have spent most of their time there in LWaW as adults.

[rjn]

I have never read Narnia (nor seen an entire movie) so sorry for being late to the party, but... Shit, that part about Susan? I guess it goes to show that Christianity want us to remain as children forever.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

I'm still trying to understand how this "lesser animals" idea justifies otherwise sentient beings having no problem with wearing fur. As if it would be okay to wear human skin so long as it came from a lesser human, like an Irishman or a Yankee.

[yunea]

I have never read Narnia (nor seen an entire movie) so sorry for being late to the party, but... Shit, that part about Susan? I guess it goes to show that Christianity want us to remain as children forever.

I sure have heard a lot of preaching about how we need to be child-like in faith.

[midniterider]

 

I have never read Narnia (nor seen an entire movie) so sorry for being late to the party, but... Shit, that part about Susan? I guess it goes to show that Christianity want us to remain as children forever.

I sure have heard a lot of preaching about how we need to be child-like in faith.

 

 

childlike = gullible = $$ to keep paying for pastor's house

[ironhorse]

 

I have never read Narnia (nor seen an entire movie) so sorry for being late to the party, but... Shit, that part about Susan? I guess it goes to show that Christianity want us to remain as children forever.

I sure have heard a lot of preaching about how we need to be child-like in faith.

 

 

 

I agree.

[yunea]

 

 

I have never read Narnia (nor seen an entire movie) so sorry for being late to the party, but... Shit, that part about Susan? I guess it goes to show that Christianity want us to remain as children forever.

 

I sure have heard a lot of preaching about how we need to be child-like in faith.

 

 

I agree.

Why?

[Jeff]

 

 

I have never read Narnia (nor seen an entire movie) so sorry for being late to the party, but... Shit, that part about Susan? I guess it goes to show that Christianity want us to remain as children forever.

I sure have heard a lot of preaching about how we need to be child-like in faith.

 

I agree.

lurkers. I present the champion of Christ here on ex-c.

A weighty argument as usual, full of logic and well-thought reason.

Dodging the hard questions to lead all to a simpler faith.