deno Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 I'm a recent convert from 15+ years of evangelical indoctrination so I'm only beginning to learn the arguments of atheists, agnostics, freethinkers, and the like. With that said...a book I was recently reading briefly mentioned the subject of the origin of religion. As I remember, the author admitted he was a little puzzled that billions of people in the world have historically been drawn to one religion or another. Why does mankind seem to need a belief in a supernatural being? The author also espoused evolution (which I have become to believe in) and meticulously outlined his reasons for his belief. It was only later that I wondered if evolution might have something to do with our need for a god. My thinking was along these lines: In my uneducated understanding, the essence of evolution is survival. Thus, a species, by natural selection, evolves so that it can survive in its environment. It seems to me that the number one priority of any species is survival for survival's sake which would necessitate reproduction. So, it seems to me and my armchair science that the next logical step from temporal survival would be eternal survival. If the mechanism of evolution is so adept at finding ways to survive why couldn't it create in us the desire to survive forever? This built-in desire manifests itself in the pursuit of pleasing and worshiping something greater than themselves who is capable of extending life beyond the grave. During my years as a Christian, I've heard it said many times that God put in each of us a God-shaped vacuum that could only be filled by Him. Maybe what they call a vacuum is really evolutionary wiring in our brains. I would very much like to know your view on this. Also, I'd like to know if you've read any material that discusses the possibility of evolution playing any part in mankind's need for religion. References would be appreciated if you have them. Thanks so much! One more thing... To further prime your pump on this subject let me recommend a website: http://www.origin-of-religion.com/ There, on the "Read More" page you will find a short synopsis of a book by the founder of the site, Benjamin Andrews. I haven't read the book but in the one-page synopsis, Andrews proposes a very logical (in my opinion) progression for the need and reasons why very ancient civilizations developed the concept of god or gods. I want to explore Andrew's views on this and read what others have written on this subject. So, if you have anything to offer I would appreciate it. Thanks again and I'm looking forward to your thoughts! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blood Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 It's not "puzzling" why human cultures invented gods and religion for the very reason you describe: the desire for immortality, the need for the human ego to feel like a special snowflake different from all of animals AND humans, and so on. These psychological problems are most logically resolved by imagining "gods" who created everything and must be appeased somehow (human sacrifice, animal sacrifice, libations, offerings). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzon Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 While not the top reason, i do think part of it is a antidepressant. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjn Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Religious belief do have some evolutionary advantages, the most important is probably the strengthening of social bonds and cohesion in a group. Beyond that, it may act as an anti-depressant, as Shinzon noted. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ Fuego ♦ Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 It served as a way to explain things. If the village had a ruler, and a nation had a king, why not someone in charge of everything? And since humans seem different from other creatures, we tend to pattern gods after ourselves. Appealing to a god was a way to get an edge on cruel natural phenomena, so putting some fruit out as an offering was a simple trade for good weather. Then confirmation bias would make it seem to have worked, and so on. And those who wouldn't sacrifice would be seen as endangering the tribe, so began persecution. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Put yourself in the mindset of ancient man. Ancient mankind lacked the technology necessary to understand the forces of nature. Look up at the night sky. Obviously there is a lot of stuff up there. It seems logical that ancient mankind would believe Powerful Gods controlled the forces of nature & it would be logical for them to believe these powerful Gods lived up in the sky where humans could not go. Then their imaginations took over & they gave names to these Gods & created images of them. Religion was inevitable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugene39 Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 A book named "The Origins of Consciousness in the Break-down of the Bicameral Mind" by Julian Jaynes deals with this topic. It's a controversial book and I happened upon its existence because Richard Dawkins mentions it in his "God Delusion" book as either being complete rubbish or the work of a consummate genius. To me, it's a bit deep and could have had fewer words and still gotten his ideas across, but it was a fascinating read and has helped shaped my thinking about where religion originated. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deno Posted December 11, 2016 Author Share Posted December 11, 2016 Thanks to everyone for your input. Fuego and Geezer - your views are akin to what Benjamin Andrews wrote in his synopsis and makes a lot of sense to me. Spinzon and rjn - I'm curious as to how you think the creation of religion is linked to the need for an anti-depressant. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjn Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Spinzon and rjn - I'm curious as to how you think the creation of religion is linked to the need for an anti-depressant. Thanks! Once pre-historic people were able to sit down and ponder anything that went beyond mere survival, the "Big Questions" were bound to arise. The chaotic, menacing and largely unpredictable nature of life itself is more than enough to produce anxiety in someone. Therefore, a culture that could provide some sort of assurance, would be better at encouraging individuals to keep struggling, giving them a better shot at survival. As long as it works, it's a self-perpetuating system. If it didn't, religion would have been moribund at the onset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Hi Deno! I hope the notions of Patternicity and Agenticity are food for thought. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/patternicity-finding-meaningful-patterns/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/skeptic-agenticity/ Enjoy! Thanks, BAA. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinzon Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Spinzon and rjn - I'm curious as to how you think the creation of religion is linked to the need for an anti-depressant. Thanks!im speaking from experience almost entirely but as someone who has struggled with major depression. Faith was when i had it one of my few comforts. God knows your pain and has his reasons for your life to suck was a major comfort. Suffering at least for me had meaning at the time. I figure if that was the truth for me its probably true for others as well. Broadly in a bizarre way it was a solution to the problem of why bad things happen to good people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Dawkins spends a fair amount of time with religion origins in Chapter 5 (or 6) of The God Delusion. It's a mixture of Darwinian evolution and meme theory and propagation, all somewhat speculative but not over the top. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Storm Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 I found this book, The Biological Evolution of Religious Mind and Behavior, to be a good source for understanding some of the evolutionary and biological reasons for why humans believe the religious things we do. Hope this helps. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deno Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 Interesting observations! Shinzon, I hope you've found more realistic comfort for your depression. I take a medication for mild depression but it's something I developed long before de-conversation. BAA, thanks for the links. I'll check them out. sdelsolray, I'll revisit those chapters, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deno Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 Thanks, Storm. I'll take a look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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