Rounin Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Hello, fellow Ex-Christians! I want to share with you something I happened upon while reading The God delusion. 100 years ago, in a remote area in Portugal, an alleged miracle happened in front of tens of thousands of people. After reading about this, I couldn't resist getting some books and reading up on it. CONTENT WARNING: This post containts a description of hell, as well as other potentially distrurbing aspects. Consider this before reading it. http://01101001.net/fatima.php What do you think? Had you heard of this event before? What do you make of it? What do you think of focus on suffering, and the call for penance and sacrifice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsathoggua Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 The Fatima phenomenon is certainly fascinating! I have heard that some people went there expecting to see a miracle, but saw nothing. Others were die-hard skeptics expecting to see nothing, but had to admit seeing things that science could not explain. Several paranormal researchers who investigate weird phenomena (Charles Fort, Jacques Vallee, John Keel) have concluded that there is something that shares this planet with us, that enjoys playing and toying with us, and is responsible for starting all the major religions. A few seemingly-miraculous events here and there, and "Hey Presto!" -- you have more religiously-motivated fanatics to play with! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rounin Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 Haha! I can just imagine it now... As if we're living inside a game of Sim City. Though I hope not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted January 13, 2017 Super Moderator Share Posted January 13, 2017 After he retired, the famous mentalist Kreskin moved to a town not far from me. He even came to a magic club meeting or two. I bring this up because I once saw him convince a parking lot full of people (150-200) that there was a large UFO hovering over them. I'd call that a miracle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rounin Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 Wow! That's amazing, UFO or no UFO. He must be (or have been) a very talented man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted January 13, 2017 Super Moderator Share Posted January 13, 2017 Kreskin even predicted the Trump win (sort of). http://www.fox5dc.com/good-day/56634047-story He uses the power of suggestion, NLP, and even a few little "cheats" to create mental miracles. It's really no different than what the great faith healers, psychics and other disreputable charlatans have always done - but he actually admits to being an entertainer. So MEN can create miracles, and we see it all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Mass delusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Hi Rounin. As an amateur astronomer, what people see (or think they see) in the sky is of interest to me. What follows is purely my own personal interpretation of what has been seen throughout history and why people tend to look at the Sun and think they see something miraculous or supernatural going on there. 312 A.D. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Milvian_Bridge The Roman Emperor Constantine sees something in the sky that could be a type of solar halo known as a sun dog. He makes a religious interpretation of this 'sign'. 1535 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%A4dersolstavlan The inhabitants of the Swedish city of Stockholm see a strange display of lights in the sky. These are believed to be sun dogs. 1561 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1561_celestial_phenomenon_over_Nuremberg The inhabitants of the German city of Nuremberg see strange objects in the sky. The Sun plays an important part in this display. 1566 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1566_celestial_phenomenon_over_Basel The inhabitants of the Swiss city of Basel see strange objects in the sky. Once again, the Sun plays an important role in what is seen. 1661 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevenfold_sun_miracle The inhabitants of Danzig (now Gdansk, in Poland) see something that looked like this. 1820 http://www.atoptics.co.uk/halo/p1820.htm The British explorer William Edward Parry records seeing a Sun-related display in the Canadian arctic. 1935 http://www.atoptics.co.uk/halo/col1935.htm Gerald E. Owen sees this solar display from Colebrook, New Hampshire. 1999, 2001 & 2007 http://www.atoptics.co.uk/halo/haldisp.htm Photos of various multiple halo displays from Antarctica, Alaska, England, Israel and Norway. . . . What's interesting about these examples Rounin is that they are all related, in one way or another, to the Sun. The various lines, circles and arcs are either centered on the Sun or point to it in some way. This leads me to think that the Fatima phenomenon might be an ice crystal display that caused over-religious, ignorant and gullible people to gaze at the Sun. Now, I'm no doctor and no optometrist, but staring intently at the Sun is just asking for trouble! As we see here... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1581424/Dozens-blinded-in-India-looking-for-Virgin-Mary.html I'm only speculating, but I reckon that what was seen at Fatima is probably the result of people damaging and/or overtaxing their eyes by staring intently at the Sun. If you wanted me to speculate further on the idea of ice crystal displays being interpreted as religious visions, how about the wheels-in-the-sky that the prophet Ezekiel claims to have seen? This is a image I've selected with Google Image search. Nobody really knows what he saw - if he actually saw anything at all. As I said, I'm speculating. So please don't quote me as doing anything else than that, ok? Thanks, BAA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Link to a description of the 1629 display seen from Rome, Italy. https://sites.google.com/a/alaska.edu/walt-tape/published More examples of solar halos and ice crystal displays from history. https://www.metabunk.org/how-rare-or-common-are-haloes-sun-dogs-etc-a-review-of-the-literature.t6742/ 3,212 selected observations of rare types of halo. http://www.halo.astronomie.cz/world/vypis.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted January 14, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 14, 2017 In 1963 a evangelical 'prophet' by the name of William M Branham claimed to have been on sunset mountain when seven angles took to the sky with a great roar in a 'pyramid' formation (Top pic) Later God 'told' him to turn the picture to the right to reveal the 'face of Jesus' (Bottom pic) Make what you will, but there are perfectly natural explanations for this. (Also he lies - he was no where in the area when this happened) However, today some 4 million people believe that this was seven angels appearing to a prophet. 4 Million... that's mass delusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rounin Posted January 14, 2017 Author Share Posted January 14, 2017 Thank you both for sharing those interesting observations! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagainathiest Posted January 14, 2017 Share Posted January 14, 2017 That could be a noctilucent cloud, LF. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noctilucent_cloud Ice - not water droplets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted January 14, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 14, 2017 Thanks BAA. Because this was a big part of our religious beliefs I researched this and used to know what caused it - I think what you just linked is it. A bit thing was/is made about it being too high for water to form... but as the link clearly states, the 28 mile height of the cloud is no where near the upper limit of 53 miles. I also note that it talks about them being visible during sunset which is when it happened. There is also another phenomenon to do with high lying fighter jets that causes a similar looking event - but records show there were no jets in the area so more likely to be a noctilucent cloud. What is scary, is that this event can happen, then a preacher with influence can say "I was there, it was angles, and I have a message from God" (The seven seals from revelations) and millions today (previously including myself) believe it. Pantshittinlyscary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted January 15, 2017 Share Posted January 15, 2017 Meh. I was in a church service where Bob Jones some Kansas City prophet said an angel gave him the watch he was wearing... And not a single person questioned him on it. I was leaving slowly by that point in time so I just took it as one more nail in the coffin of religion for me. Damn silly stuff goes on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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