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Goodbye Jesus

Spiritually Dead Ex-Christians?


Joshpantera

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Watching the evolution of this forum category seems to suggest as much. There's no where near the activity here as in other categories. Maybe some of the spiritual ex-christian members can answer why that it is, if anyone's listening.

 

Why has the forum dwindled to such a low activity level? I'd like hear what some of you have to say about it. Let's revive some activity, shall we?

 

Thanks

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Watching the evolution of this forum category seems to suggest as much. There's no where near the activity here as in other categories. Maybe some of the spiritual ex-christian members can answer why that it is, if anyone's listening.

 

Why has the forum dwindled to such a low activity level? I'd like hear what some of you have to say about it. Let's revive some activity, shall we?

 

Thanks

This is probably the forum section I visit least. Although all humans are "spiritual" (broadly interpreted) to at least some extent, I'm definitely low on the spectrum. My need for spirituality is pretty much met by enjoying my morning coffee, working out, enjoying the beauty of the outdoors and the night sky, and having sex...

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Most of my spiritual practices are self-discovery, pondering my previous beliefs and their basis - and how to unplug them in other believers, exploring my comfort zone and challenging it (usually with music and performance), teaching myself to not react but to ponder and respond/not respond, being more connected in nature and less in technology. Not really much to post about these things other than I am starting to re-examine the book I wrote a couple of years after deconverting. It seems like the time for editing and publishing may be approaching. Right now it is too dry.

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Spiritually would seem to be something a "Believer" would be interested in. Some folks have a difficult time letting go of God or the idea of God. What some are calling spirituality may be the last step to becoming a non-believer. Maybe it's just a way to believe in some form of God without becoming part of an organized religion.

 

Deism struck me as being a way to believe in God without being religious. Maybe spirituality is something like that.

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I don't really believe in anything spiritual nor do I find I have a need to.

 

That is not to say that there are not some unexplained events that occur, but attaching a spiritual experience to them seems unnecessary. I take it we are talking about more than a sense of awe and wonder at some of life's mysteries?  

 

And how do others define spirituality? I meditate and have a feeling of being part of the universe but I certainly don't say that its spiritual.

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It occurs to me that most Christians have not been in a spiritual practice as much as a legalistic, doctrinal discipline. Many ex Christians do dabble in alternative religion for a time, but it seems most quickly stop bothering. Obviously there are a few who settle into Buddhism or Paganism in some form. Why, I don't know. Some people need a little magic in their life and some need a ready made community, others believe they finally found The Answer. 

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Thanks for the input. 

 

I've belonged to Pantheist forums (The World Pantheism Movement) which are based on naturalistic spiritual ideas grounded in the universe and natural world. In the event of Christians leaving Christianity for another form of theism or deism I think that discussing naturalistic spiritual alternatives is beneficial. For instance, if someone jumps from one supernatural belief to another, they seem more susceptible to getting drawn back in to the former. Apparently non-believers greatly out weigh believers when it comes to deconversion so this may not be much of an issue.

 

And I suspect that while I've been away some of the theistic ex-C's that used to post here backed out and stopped participating. Maybe they didn't feel welcome among so many non-believers.  

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I am interested in this forum too, and wish there was more activity - but at the same time I don't know that I have much to contribute myself. I don't know what I believe yet, but read about deism after reading this thread and am interested in that idea.

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Good for you! Thanks for participating. 

 

These are all ideas worth exploring. I know that the rules state that atheists are not to brow beat theistic ex-christians. I hope that isn't something that has happened and scared people away. Deva used to moderate here a long time ago and she left. I won't go into the details but she seemed unhappy with the way things were going. 

 

I may start a thread on deism (even though there's some buried down in the past and locked), so we can explore what it offers. 

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I think I am unsure as to how I even want to explore spirituality. Even after 3+ years of deconversion, I am still not anywhere near a place where I can even begin to explore any aspect of Spirituality without invoking memories of what I am trying to leave behind. I want so badly not to be so negative towards religion, but I just can't at this point in my life. But, there are things I miss about Christianity that I would like to re-incorporate back into my life, albeit in a different and more beneficial way, but I haven't figured out how to just yet, probably more because I am not really trying all that hard.

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Storm, you may want to read through my other thread about Spiritual Atheism and it's varieties. You may find what you're after. 

 

I can tell you at over 25 years deconverted, I've been all over the place. I started out with a swift jolt from theism to hard atheism and anti-religion. It took at least 10 years before I started looking back at it. While thinking about cosmology and the BBT I became focus on what started it all, what came before and what exists beyond our observable universe. At the time there weren't very good answers. That led back to re-reading the Bible, cover to cover. But when I did that I noticed things that I had never noticed before. Like the extreme contradictions in Genesis. And in the NT. That opened a new interest in Biblical criticism and that led to reading on archaeological minimalism. Through all of this I came across the work of Joseph Campbell and that's where I started seeing the alternative view to Christian spirituality.

 

Learning about comparative mythology and religion changed me again. Properly understanding eastern religion changed me. And I wound up reading about Pantheistic philosophy, the idea that god is not literal but simply refers to the natural universe itself and existence as a whole. I began understanding naturalistic spirituality which is very modern and goes beyond the old religions of east and west. It's scientific minded. And it made sense, for me. Some people are just naturally spiritual, perhaps naturally mystical. I see spiritual as in tune with nature and it's interconnectivity and interdependence. I see mystical as in tune with the deep mystery involved in the existence of everything. I'm of that variety. It was unnatural for me as a hard atheist. I just had to locate the extreme views and then find my own way, which wound up much more centered than a hard right or hard left view. These types of things can be explored further in the Spiritual Atheism thread if you're interested in this direction.  

 

 http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/75188-spiritual-atheism/#.WJCf-_krLIU

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Storm, you may want to read through my other thread about Spiritual Atheism and it's varieties. You may find what you're after. 

 

I can tell you at over 25 years deconverted, I've been all over the place. I started out with a swift jolt from theism to hard atheism and anti-religion. It took at least 10 years before I started looking back at it. While thinking about cosmology and the BBT I became focus on what started it all, what came before and what exists beyond our observable universe. At the time there weren't very good answers. That led back to re-reading the Bible, cover to cover. But when I did that I noticed things that I had never noticed before. Like the extreme contradictions in Genesis. And in the NT. That opened a new interest in Biblical criticism and that led to reading on archaeological minimalism. Through all of this I came across the work of Joseph Campbell and that's where I started seeing the alternative view to Christian spirituality.

 

Learning about comparative mythology and religion changed me again. Properly understanding eastern religion changed me. And I wound up reading about Pantheistic philosophy, the idea that god is not literal but simply refers to the natural universe itself and existence as a whole. I began understanding naturalistic spirituality which is very modern and goes beyond the old religions of east and west. It's scientific minded. And it made sense, for me. Some people are just naturally spiritual, perhaps naturally mystical. I see spiritual as in tune with nature and it's interconnectivity and interdependence. I see mystical as in tune with the deep mystery involved in the existence of everything. I'm of that variety. It was unnatural for me as a hard atheist. I just had to locate the extreme views and then find my own way, which wound up much more centered than a hard right or hard left view. These types of things can be explored further in the Spiritual Atheism thread if you're interested in this direction.  

 

 http://www.ex-christian.net/topic/75188-spiritual-atheism/#.WJCf-_krLIU

I will take a look at the thread when I have some time. I am definitely open to spirituality at some point, just not right now. Too many wounds still open in my life. But, in due time I believe I will get there.

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  • 4 weeks later...

To be honest, I don't come to the site as a whole as often - lack of time more than anything.  When I do, I usually visit this board first.  But there is a balancing act in participating here.  I have no interest in evangelism, and so am reticent about starting a thread based on belief structures.  Being fairly well established in my own ideas, I see my role more as providing a contact point for discussion for anyone seeking their own version of spirituality

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To be honest, I don't come to the site as a whole as often - lack of time more than anything.  When I do, I usually visit this board first.  But there is a balancing act in participating here.  I have no interest in evangelism, and so am reticent about starting a thread based on belief structures.  Being fairly well established in my own ideas, I see my role more as providing a contact point for discussion for anyone seeking their own version of spirituality

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Oops - double posted.  Not sure how.

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People leave their faith/church for a number of reasons but some continue to hold on to a belief in God & also continue to believe the Bible is true & in some way sacred. I classify them as seekers. I think the thing they miss most about church is the social component. The loss of social structure & friends is probably the most difficult thing, for a lot of folks, to deal with.

Many folks seemingly are either not aware, or refuse to believe, they've be indoctrinated/brainwashed into believing the things they do. Many continue to express an open fear of hell. Leaving your faith/religion is difficult & in my opinion it requires re-education as part of the deprogramming get process. 

Once you are able to shed your former beliefs & have examined the origins of the bible & Christianity it will become evident that it was all man made. There is simply nothing left, at that point, to believe in and certainly nothing left to fear. Historical evidence confirms the bible is a collection of fictional stories with fictional characters. The Gospel story (there is only one but 4 versions were created from the one) was likely the product of Jewish midrash (a rewrite of OT stories). Example Moses wandered in the desert for 40 years, Jesus wandered in the desert 40 days. The bible is filled with midrash stories like that if you know what to look for & where.

Once a former believer becomes aware of the bible & christianities history there is a temptation to move on with their life & leave religion behind including sites like this. Some of us, however, remember how traumatic leaving religion was for us so we still stick around & do what we can to help folks who are experiencing all of this for the first time. 

Leaving your faith is a lengthy process not an event. It certainly isn't a reverse "Come to Jesus moment". It often takes years to get all of the crap that has been indoctrinated into your brain out & free yourself from it. 

And then there are folks who are seeking some form of spirituality to replace their religion & there is nothing wrong with that. There are many options available. That seems to be a pretty normal part of de-converting. I experienced that too. I explored Deism as a possible substitute for Xianity. I checked that out for about a year before deciding it wasn't working for me. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm afraid I may embody a contradiction to some of that.  I am reasonably unsociable, couldn't give a two hoots for the social aspect of church, am very much alone in my current belief structure (apart from online contacts - but then, I could find those just as easily as an atheist) and yet have never been and don't seem to be heading towards atheism...

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I just watched a video on the nationalist movement in Greece to get back to the old Greek Pantheon and revive the old polytheism. It was an interesting watch. I think I get where they're going. I've heard that In Iran some have done something similar by wanting to get back to the old Zoroastrianism and get in touch with their pre-Islamic roots. None of this seems very different from has been going on for a long time with Druids in the British Isles. They've kept tradition alive in some way despite being steam rolled by christianity. 

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Zoroastrians have never actually gone away - I've seen photographs of a fire temple in the UK and you can get some interesting results for them via Google.  Of course, how far they still exist in Iran is another matter.

 

The Greek revivalist/reconstructionist movement is usually called "Hellenismos".  Personally, I'd be quite eager to divorce it from any nationalist movement, as that brings all the dangers linked to potential religious intrusion into secular politics.

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That's what they said in the video. A government official stated that Greece is a secular government and this has no place in that government. I agree with that analysis. But in terms of trying to keep alive something christianity steam rolled, I agree with that too.

 

I see christianity as a monstrosity created over time which eventually took on common mythological symbols with most pagan cultures. Their solar mysteries, virgin birth stories, flood myths, etc. etc., had some type of representation in christianity so they had to switch from their ethnic ways of mythology to this new christian presentation of much of the same. Jesus was the new sun god. He proclaims, "no one goes to the father but through me." That's the role of the sun in the solar mysteries. The sun was viewed as the most appropriate symbol for the inner transcendent god energy. You go to the god through the symbolism of the sun and the solar mysteries. People can now go back to their ethnic solar mysteries if they choose, the church can no longer stop them and persecute them for simply interpreting mythology in their own ethnic ways, as opposed to forcing a christian reinterpretation of the same archetypes in myth...  

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You might find this site has some useful information, regarding your comments on Christianity's origin:

http://pocm.info/

 

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It will probably take me years to know what I believe spiritually. I've said it before and I will say it now. I just can't believe that there is nothing. I know most on this website will chalk it up to the newness of my deconversion slowly winging myself on the dependency of "something greater". And maybe that is the case, only time will tell. But I don't necessarily know that there is a "something greater" just a "something". I know I'm talking in riddles. Believe me it confuses me aswell. But there isn't an instruction book anymore to tell me what the details are. 

     In my short time as a practicing Wiccan before I devoted my life to "the lies of christ" for 15 years er so. I truly appreciated the theory of reincarnation. I really really REALLY! want that to be true because in my eyes this life is the "greater" and if there is an afterlife it's just part of the "something" trying to get back to Life.

        Also I've really screwed the pooch as far as my health so far. If I knew what I knew now. All that time wasted in church would have been devoted to working out and making my body healthy so I can live longer. I hope it's not to late to repair any damage I've done by neglecting that. I'm trying to lose weight now. I'm also contemplating joining my sons karate studio. 

        I am finding a new interest in ancient symbology in pagan religions. In my studies on the Egyptian God's I noticed the Ankh and it's similarity to the cross. (Probably not a coincidence) And thought it was even more interesting that the Ankh represented "life". A star shows up a lot in religious mythology. I think about the Five pointed pentagram with each point representing a different element of life. Earth, Fire, Water, Air, and Spirit. I have also held a fascination with runes. Burning incense is also a common aspect across most every faith. I love me some incense. 

       Am I going to turn back to Wicca because it was the only other religion I practised. No. In my mind the mythology behind paganism is just as much bullshit as everything else. But the spiritual aspects are good. I plan on building a house in about 4 years I hope. On the property I plan on building a Zen Garden. I want to build it reminiscent of ancient groves or "high places" and fill it with these ancient symbols as focal points for meditation. Through meditation I plan on practising my spirituality. I don't need a God to help me with that. 

      I don't believe I will ever be able to be labeled as any particular faith again tho. Maybe I should just make up my own and get in on the money racket. LOL! I'm just kidding! I couldn't do that to anyone knowing now how wrong it is. And how bad it hurts people. 

       I would also like to see this forum pick up activity. I may start my own thread on  Interesting religious symbology from all over time and religion. This would serve to help me with my interests as well. 

 

Dark Bishop

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I suspect you will find that few pagans regard mythology as some sort of literal truth akin to a "holy scripture".  Furthermore, I know people on a pagan forum who are materialistic atheists.  Spirituality is not limited to theists, nor is there any real value beyond convenience in any label - Pagan, Wiccan, Heathen, Kemite, Hellene or whatever.  There is a sense, I'm afraid, in which you are on your own with this issue regardless of who is around or what they say - it's a question of how the world makes sense to you, what beliefs answer to your outlook, and no-one has the right or authority to tell you what may be right or wrong.

 

On that basis, all I can really say is "all the best".  Keep digging, and you'll find your way eventually.

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On 3/17/2017 at 5:17 AM, DarkBishop said:

It will probably take me years to know what I believe spiritually. I've said it before and I will say it now. I just can't believe that there is nothing. I know most on this website will chalk it up to the newness of my deconversion slowly winging myself on the dependency of "something greater". And maybe that is the case, only time will tell. But I don't necessarily know that there is a "something greater" just a "something". I know I'm talking in riddles. Believe me it confuses me aswell. But there isn't an instruction book anymore to tell me what the details are. 

     In my short time as a practicing Wiccan before I devoted my life to "the lies of christ" for 15 years er so. I truly appreciated the theory of reincarnation. I really really REALLY! want that to be true because in my eyes this life is the "greater" and if there is an afterlife it's just part of the "something" trying to get back to Life.

        Also I've really screwed the pooch as far as my health so far. If I knew what I knew now. All that time wasted in church would have been devoted to working out and making my body healthy so I can live longer. I hope it's not to late to repair any damage I've done by neglecting that. I'm trying to lose weight now. I'm also contemplating joining my sons karate studio. 

        I am finding a new interest in ancient symbology in pagan religions. In my studies on the Egyptian God's I noticed the Ankh and it's similarity to the cross. (Probably not a coincidence) And thought it was even more interesting that the Ankh represented "life". A star shows up a lot in religious mythology. I think about the Five pointed pentagram with each point representing a different element of life. Earth, Fire, Water, Air, and Spirit. I have also held a fascination with runes. Burning incense is also a common aspect across most every faith. I love me some incense. 

       Am I going to turn back to Wicca because it was the only other religion I practised. No. In my mind the mythology behind paganism is just as much bullshit as everything else. But the spiritual aspects are good. I plan on building a house in about 4 years I hope. On the property I plan on building a Zen Garden. I want to build it reminiscent of ancient groves or "high places" and fill it with these ancient symbols as focal points for meditation. Through meditation I plan on practising my spirituality. I don't need a God to help me with that. 

      I don't believe I will ever be able to be labeled as any particular faith again tho. Maybe I should just make up my own and get in on the money racket. LOL! I'm just kidding! I couldn't do that to anyone knowing now how wrong it is. And how bad it hurts people. 

       I would also like to see this forum pick up activity. I may start my own thread on  Interesting religious symbology from all over time and religion. This would serve to help me with my interests as well. 

 

Dark Bishop

 

I'm going to check out the thread. And I like the Zen Garden idea.

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On 3/17/2017 at 5:17 AM, DarkBishop said:

 

Also I've really screwed the pooch as far as my health so far. If I knew what I knew now. All that time wasted in church would have been devoted to working out and making my body healthy so I can live longer. I hope it's not to late to repair any damage I've done by neglecting that. I'm trying to lose weight now. I'm also contemplating joining my sons karate studio. 

      

 

You're in your thirties, right, DB?  It's easy to forget, in that decade when you know the first flush of youth is past, how young you still are.  Yeah we wasted a lot of time with Church and all, but I was past 50 when I deconverted and I still feel excited about the horizons opening up now that the indoctrination has been mostly reversed and I feel truly myself for the first time!  I dusted off the weight machine in the basement and it feels so good, physically and spiritually, to feel and see my body 'come alive'.  It's good to see the plans you have: I can sense the awakening you're experiencing.  So go forth and conquer, young feller!

 

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