Jump to content
Goodbye Jesus

Do you follow a different faith now that you're no longer Christian?


Deidre

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, Joshpantera said:

 

Here, to the spirituality section, wanting to let people know your experience of the holy spirit. Are you sure that that doesn't include any type of agenda? It doesn't really matter if you do have a christian agenda for being here. I'm welcoming the agenda and asking you to expand upon it.

 

As for me and this website in general, obviously there's an agenda. It's written and expressed all over the website. And the agenda is to help christians and ex-christians who may be struggling along. Nearly every member here is on board with that agenda. But you must already know that having been here for several years. I suspect that your journey is far from over and your starting this thread and asking about ex-christians beliefs has to do with the fact that you're still searching for answers and your journey is far from concluded. There's no need to get defensive with me unless you're insecure about your re-conversion, about going from catholic, to atheist, and then protestant. Perhaps you're interested in what your peers around here think about it. I'm asking questions. 

 

I'll invite you once again to discuss your experience of the holy spirit, as a concerned ex-christian adhering to the purpose of this website.  

 

 

 

 

 

There's no agenda, here. If you believe there is, that is you inventing that. I have no interest in swaying anyone back to Christianity. I made friends here when I first joined, so I like to return here at times. 

 

I'm a member of a few atheist forums from when I joined them as an atheist, and they know I've returned to faith and welcome me back, without any questions. You know why? Because they are secure in their own lack of belief, they simply don't care about my experience or what led me back. You don't seem to the place of indifference, yet...which is fine, but to seem angry over why I won't derail a thread to answer your question as to why I returned to faith, is really more about you, than me. (And I did share why, but you want me to share more as to why, I guess.) I say that with kindness because you shouldn't care why I came back to faith, tbh. Not at least to the point of becoming defensive and suggesting I don't post here. 

 

I wouldn't want to live in a world where religious freedom didn't exist, because that is as oppressive as religious zealots. Don't be threatened by people who think differently than you. I'm not. A person can return to faith, just like a person can leave it...it doesn't need to be threatening to either side. Considering that two mods have posted in this thread, it doesn't seem like my thread is violating rules.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator

Just following you both Deidre and Josh

 

I can see both your viewpoints regarding the purpose of this forum, and the subject of this thread.

 

Its an interesting one because this forum is locked and requires permission to contribute to it so it seems the mods feel it may be a  'safe' forum like the Ex Christian Testimony sections? If anything moving the topic to the Lions Den would prevent any rule breaks, but I don't see the need. I tend to agree in part with both of you - I don't think Deidre has an agenda, but considering the nature of this forum, answering questions asked would seem to me to be the honest hing to do considering the nature of the forum. (PS I hate putting a foot in both camps - both sides ends up disagreeing with me lol)

 

Quote

 

quote from Josh: After work I went out on the lake bass fishing this afternoon. And for some reason this exchange was on my mind out on the water. I get the no true Scotsman fallacy aspect. They may have meant it that way, but I suspect that it's more the case of suggesting that she wasn't intellectually atheist. There's a bit of a difference. Many christians have an "I used to be atheism" claim. But more often than not they were never Richard Dawkins atheist, that is, intellectually atheist. They may have been confused about god, wavering or wondering, but an intellectual atheist is just immune from doing something like taking up positive belief in christianity.  

 

I realize that I wasn't an intellectual atheist until I re-read the bible cover to cover and took up critical biblical reading and acquired the knowledge. I know that I was susceptible to returning under certain conditions previous to doing that. It's the intellectual foundation of atheism - knowing in great detail what's wrong with not only the bible, but all religious writings in terms of believing in them literally - that curbs the idea that maybe it's correct after all. That's probably all that people have meant by suggesting that she wasn't a real atheist or something to that effect. It's not that it wasn't real, she likely stopped believing for a while as she says. It's just that it was probably emotional based or rebellious more so than deeply intellectual.

 

 

An interesting thought there. I would say that my reasons for leaving Christianity are intellectual, but i don't know if I could claim I am an intellectual atheist, or that I'm not immune to returning. However if I did return I do know that I would require some hard evidence that God is real and Christianity is 'the religion'. What that evidence would be I don't know - I'm pretty skeptical, but if God exists he'd know what it would take. So far I've seen nothing to remotely suggest the existence of God out side of special pleading and post hoc rationalizations... which don't influence me. So intellectually I'm not sure where I stand in regards to your thoughts above Josh.

 

Quote

Quote = Deidre: I never had a holy spirit ''experience'' before deconverting. I had left Christianity for a few years, so it wasn't a sudden change back. Although, I will admit...atheism left me feeling empty at times, especially when my grandmother died two years ago. I was an atheist when she died. That said, I never really owned my faith before deconverting. It was a faith ''given'' to me by my parents, and my childhood. So, I had this holy spirit experience, that is the only way I can describe it. I went to look up online if others have had similar experiences, and their experiences and feelings were nearly identical from an emotional and physical standpoint, and I compared it for the first time to what the BIble says about it...when people encountered the holy spirit. It might sound crazy from an objective view, but that's what happened over a year ago that led me back. The difference is...I'd say now, I own my faith. I don't believe the entire Bible as literal (well, I never did) and I follow Jesus' teachings, and have a very different opinion of Jesus than I once did. It's all very new and refreshing, as to what I once followed. I think that faith should be experienced...whatever the faith or beliefs are. I think that Christianity or any faith, can't be confined in a book or a set of stories from long ago. That's the best way I can describe ''why'' I came back. 

 

Deidre, this is the response you gave me in regards to me asking why you returned to Christianity. I know you have some disagreement with Josh about answering this, but please consider answering my questions below:

 

You never had the holy spirit experience prior. Could you describe to us this experience, and did it just hit you by yourself out of the blue, was there some praying/lead up to it occurring, or were you in contact with protestant/Pentecostal Christians when it occurred?

 

Regarding your last statement, you are very correct - no religion can survive too much rigidness. It must change with the people. But this is post hoc altering the religion to deal with modern times. The reason you don't believe the bible is literal is because of the overwhelming evidence against it (The literal parts that can be demonstrably shown to be false). So some part of you knows its not all true, but still believes in God, and the holy spirit etc. I wonder if you might be cherry picking because this idea of God and having an emotional experience gives you joy/comfort etc? I ask this because you mention that "atheism left you feeling empty at times". This to me indicates a lack of fulfillment within yourself that you have refilled with Christianity. And at this point I question, is this really God, or an emotional experience? 

 

Please forgive the forthrightness of my post above, but I find this area of inquiry very interesting, especially because I sought for many months and years for the holy spirit and never 'got it'. And all examples I have seen of it can be traced back to human emotion.

 

Thanks

LF

 

 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator
On 3/4/2017 at 10:05 AM, Deidre said:

There's no agenda, here. If you believe there is, that is you inventing that. I have no interest in swaying anyone back to Christianity. I made friends here when I first joined, so I like to return here at times. 

 

I'm a member of a few atheist forums from when I joined them as an atheist, and they know I've returned to faith and welcome me back, without any questions. You know why? Because they are secure in their own lack of belief, they simply don't care about my experience or what led me back. You don't seem to the place of indifference, yet...which is fine, but to seem angry over why I won't derail a thread to answer your question as to why I returned to faith, is really more about you, than me. (And I did share why, but you want me to share more as to why, I guess.) I say that with kindness because you shouldn't care why I came back to faith, tbh. Not at least to the point of becoming defensive and suggesting I don't post here. 

 

I wouldn't want to live in a world where religious freedom didn't exist, because that is as oppressive as religious zealots. Don't be threatened by people who think differently than you. I'm not. A person can return to faith, just like a person can leave it...it doesn't need to be threatening to either side. Considering that two mods have posted in this thread, it doesn't seem like my thread is violating rules.

 

 

 

You've misunderstood the purpose of my quoting the rules. It was simply to point out that Christian beliefs are not protected here, they are fair game. And the larger context of this website is for ex-Christians (myself and others) to help encourage struggling Christians and wavering ex-Christians (you). 

 

We can't help you if you don't expand. Alluding the questions isn't helping anything aside from you entrenching yourself in Christian views. Is it embarrassing to discuss? If so, why? Do you know deep down how silly it is for a so called former atheist to claim experiencing the Holy Spirit? I'm being generous with silly. 

 

But it's not as silly as you suggesting that I'd shut you down or not want you posting here. Why would I want that? I'd rather closely analyze your story and see where that leads....

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't need help. lol Someone posted ''I'd be curious as to why you returned to the faith,'' and I simply shared why. You are turning that around now to implying that I'm witnessing, or sharing my beliefs. That's being dishonest with what happened. I've been a member here for three years, and people of all faiths are permitted to post here, but witnessing, preaching, etc is not permitted which I haven't done. 

 

This thread isn't about me, or Christianity...it's about asking if people have found new faiths or religions to follow after leaving Christianity. I don't wish to spar with you, but you don't know me so attaching your preconceived notions of all Christians onto me, is wrong. You are against Christianity, which is no one's business but your own, I'm not here to change your mind. But, again...this thread isn't about me or Christianity, it's about other's beliefs after leaving Christianity. Nothing more or less, really. I was like you when I left the faith, and wanted to ''correct'' all of my Christian friends as to why Christianty was wrong, or belief in general, when I started identifying as an atheist. When you feel that you know truth, you wish to shout it from the rooftops, so I understand why you are approaching me in this way, because I've done it myself when I was an ex-christian. I can't expect anyone to accept my holy spirit experience as truth for them, but it's truth for me. That is what faith is about, it's a personal thing. No one needs anyone's approval or buy in, to believe in a god, or to follow a particular set of beliefs. That's how I see faith. If you wish to preach your unbelief and why everyone should believe as you do, how are you different from the type of Christian you dislike? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/1/2017 at 7:03 PM, TrueFreedom said:

I might have a tiny touch of pantheistic woo, but I've been identifying more and more openly as an atheist, though I don't feel that I'm really a part of any atheist groups.  I might feel better labelled a none, though I really hate to be labelled based on my disbelief in a popular idea of a god.  Thankfully I have believing friends who believe that I'm a good person even though I've told them that I'm an atheist.

I don't like labels either because they're polarizing. Pantheism is really interesting, IMO. I think it would be cool to cherry pick all the good things from every religion, and toss away what we didn't like...and create our own. lol 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator

It seems to me that with all the different "paths" people follow, there is an implication that we all need to go somewhere. The paths, though widely varied, lead most people to failure and then the hunt is on for the next path. I think there is wisdom in the Watts view - there's nowhere to go, nothing to attain, you're already there and you're it. Zen thought, though not necessarily all practices of it, is clear and makes sense to me, though I realize many people are confounded by the too simple philosophy and the Zen koans.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, florduh said:

It seems to me that with all the different "paths" people follow, there is an implication that we all need to go somewhere. The paths, though widely varied, lead most people to failure and then the hunt is on for the next path. I think there is wisdom in the Watts view - there's nowhere to go, nothing to attain, you're already there and you're it. Zen thought, though not necessarily all practices of it, is clear and makes sense to me, though I realize many people are confounded by the too simple philosophy and the Zen koans.

 

Agree, but when we leave a set of beliefs, we can create our own path. It's a path nonetheless, just a path of our own paving. I see everyone on a journey of some type, mainly in getting to know who we are, our own purpose in life, etc. It doesn't ever have to be tied to religious or spiritual beliefs, just tied to how we want to live our lives, etc. It reminds me of a friend of mine who identifies as a nihilist, and says that my faith and anyone's faith is useless, because there is no purpose to life. (his words)

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator

One needs no path if he realizes he needs to go nowhere. To call that a path is stretching linguistic meaning. It seems akin to the claim that atheism is a religion.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

True, but not all atheists think alike. Most of my friends are atheists, and they all think differently on these topics. We're all individuals, at the end of the day. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator
3 hours ago, Deidre said:

I don't need help. lol Someone posted ''I'd be curious as to why you returned to the faith,'' and I simply shared why. You are turning that around now to implying that I'm witnessing, or sharing my beliefs. That's being dishonest with what happened. I've been a member here for three years, and people of all faiths are permitted to post here, but witnessing, preaching, etc is not permitted which I haven't done. 

 

This thread isn't about me, or Christianity...it's about asking if people have found new faiths or religions to follow after leaving Christianity. I don't wish to spar with you, but you don't know me so attaching your preconceived notions of all Christians onto me, is wrong. You are against Christianity, which is no one's business but your own, I'm not here to change your mind. But, again...this thread isn't about me or Christianity, it's about other's beliefs after leaving Christianity. Nothing more or less, really. I was like you when I left the faith, and wanted to ''correct'' all of my Christian friends as to why Christianty was wrong, or belief in general, when I started identifying as an atheist. When you feel that you know truth, you wish to shout it from the rooftops, so I understand why you are approaching me in this way, because I've done it myself when I was an ex-christian. I can't expect anyone to accept my holy spirit experience as truth for them, but it's truth for me. That is what faith is about, it's a personal thing. No one needs anyone's approval or buy in, to believe in a god, or to follow a particular set of beliefs. That's how I see faith. If you wish to preach your unbelief and why everyone should believe as you do, how are you different from the type of Christian you dislike? 

 

Deidre I think you are misunderstanding Josh's intent and what he is saying. He already clarified what he meant, but you seem to disregard this. You have pretty much built a strawman of what Josh has said.

 

I would ask you to consider why you are not willing to answer some simple questions regarding your experiences? I understand about what the topic of the thread is, but it seems to be somewhat an avoidance or defensive move to say the topic is X. Now that within the topic something else, related, but perhaps not directly, is there any harm in answering it?

 

I hope you realise we are not attacking you, and for myself I am just curious as to the answers to the questions below.

 

You say you "never had the holy spirit experience prior". Could you describe to us this experience, and did it just hit you by yourself out of the blue, was there some praying/lead up to it occurring, or were you in contact with protestant/Pentecostal Christians when it occurred? (Interested here in what lead up to your experience, and what it was like. Note I am not saying/implying that it didn't happen. I know first hand that no one can tell anyone else that they didn't have an experience.)

 

Thanks

LF

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator
5 hours ago, Deidre said:

Pantheism is really interesting, IMO. I think it would be cool to cherry pick all the good things from every religion, and toss away what we didn't like...and create our own. lol 

 

So why not explore that?  Nobody would deny that various religions possess wisdom, even if none have the full picture.  Have you looked into Pantheism?  Some of our members here have, and it seems like a good fit for them. 

 

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ThereAndBackAgain said:

 

So why not explore that?  Nobody would deny that various religions possess wisdom, even if none have the full picture.  Have you looked into Pantheism?  Some of our members here have, and it seems like a good fit for them. 

 

 

I have explored it, and I still glean quite a bit from other religions and spiritual beliefs. I'm not a fundamentalist, I consider myself a moderate Christian, if I had to label it. But, I'm not going to church regularly, etc...I have mainly atheist friends, a few Muslim and Christian friends, and some who are spiritual with no ''label.'' I believe that faith is as much of an experience as anything else in life, but that's just me. You have your own beliefs and why you left Christianity, as I do.

 

My experience happened at work, when I had all but forgotten about my former faith at that time, and felt a sense of peace, heat (like physical) and a wind pass by me. I can't explain it really, but shortly after, I felt the desire to learn about Jesus' teachings. I had not thought about Jesus in a few years. I hadn't been praying, or hanging out with Christians. As I said above, most of my friends are atheists. I had the same experiences happen a few times after that experience. I googled to see if other people have had holy spirit experiences, and they were very similar. It is the peace, and joy for lack of a better word, that came over me, and caused me to explore Jesus' teachings again. I have a renewed faith now, it's not the faith that I left, if that makes sense. I own it, it's not the faith that I was indoctrinated into as a kid. There could be many explanations for what I have felt over a year ago, that led me back to following Jesus, but since following Him, and coming back to faith, it's as though I feel His presence. I didn't feel that really before I deconverted nearly five years ago. I think part of the reason for that is that I don't feel that the Catholic faith really does a good job in delivering the message of faith, and that really,no one needs any church or religion to be considered a believer. I think that is what happened before I left...and that is what hurt my faith, and caused me to leave it, initially. I became disconnected with Christianity, and eventually disconnected with the idea of a god existing. But, this experience, whether anyone believes in it or not...I believe in it. I hope that helps. I understand why people leave Christianity, or any faith, really. But, the only thing I offer to anyone...whether he/she is an atheist exploring faith or a believer leaving it...is to always leave it, or come to it...for the right reasons. This was my ''right'' reason. :)

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Deidre I think you are misunderstanding Josh's intent and what he is saying. He already clarified what he meant, but you seem to disregard this. You have pretty much built a strawman of what Josh has said.

 

I would ask you to consider why you are not willing to answer some simple questions regarding your experiences? I understand about what the topic of the thread is, but it seems to be somewhat an avoidance or defensive move to say the topic is X. Now that within the topic something else, related, but perhaps not directly, is there any harm in answering it?

 

I hope you realise we are not attacking you, and for myself I am just curious as to the answers to the questions below.

 

You say you "never had the holy spirit experience prior". Could you describe to us this experience, and did it just hit you by yourself out of the blue, was there some praying/lead up to it occurring, or were you in contact with protestant/Pentecostal Christians when it occurred? (Interested here in what lead up to your experience, and what it was like. Note I am not saying/implying that it didn't happen. I know first hand that no one can tell anyone else that they didn't have an experience.)

 

Thanks

LF

 

 

I understand ...I'm not making a strawman, honestly...I'm not much of a debater, in general. It's just not my style. I share my beliefs...on any topic, not just religion/spirituality, and if people want to debate me over it, that's just not really me. I can see if I'm witnessing or trying to preach here but I'm not, someone asked me why I came back, and I shared it. I didn't share it on my own. I've returned over a year ago to faith, and this is the first time anyone here has questioned me, or come across as somewhat pushy with wanting to know why I've returned to faith.  But, I don't really mind anyone asking, if their reasons are because they have a genuine interest. But, if the reason is to mock or debate, I probably won't respond. lol Someone's intentions for asking me about why I returned to faith, matter in if I'll answer or not. You have been very respectful, and I appreciate that. So, I answered you. ^_^  

 

I remember though having some mild debates with people who were Christian, when I left the faith, and I remember my ego being the driving force...or maybe just wanting to convince myself as to my reasons for leaving the faith. I think if we're honest, that's what many people do when they leave a religion that they perceive as detrimental, in general. They feel the need to question, debate, and get people to leave that faith of which they no longer are a part of. i get it. But, not everyone's experiences with faith are the same. Not every Christian even views things the same way. There are things in the Bible that I don't believe are literal truths, and some others, I do. So, if you left  Christianity, I understand better than Christians who have never left it. But, my returning to it, shouldn't bother anyone, because everyone's situation is different...and everyone's faith experiences will be different. I came back to a very different kind of faith for me, now. We all have to figure it out for ourselves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator

Deidre, you sound to me as if you are  believing in, what  a lot of people call, ''The Grace Teachings of god'. I have a girlfriend who just follows jesus teachings (of love) and she believes that even the atheist is 'saved'....that jesus died for the whole world and all its 'sin'. She doesn't care that I'm a non-believer - she stills thinks I'm 'saved'. Is this what you consider yourself?

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, Margee said:

Deidre, you sound to me as if you are  believing in, what  a lot of people call, ''The Grace Teachings of god'. I have a girlfriend who just follows jesus teachings (of love) and she believes that even the atheist is 'saved'....that jesus died for the whole world and all its 'sin'. She doesn't care that I'm a non-believer - she stills thinks I'm 'saved'. Is this what you consider yourself?

Oh wow, yes. This is pretty much it! I have tears in my eyes reading this. Just surprised me to read it, I guess. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator
2 hours ago, Deidre said:

 But, I don't really mind anyone asking, if their reasons are because they have a genuine interest. But, if the reason is to mock or debate, I probably won't respond. lol Someone's intentions for asking me about why I returned to faith, matter in if I'll answer or not. You have been very respectful, and I appreciate that. So, I answered you. ^_^  

 

Well thank you, I try to be respectful, although at times I probably don't convey that to well. I guess my intentions is, 1) Curiosity: I am interested as to the why and how in your case, as being a baby de-convert of 4 months I am very curious about your reconvert. 2) I care about people believing things that are true, so when I realise I have been believing something that is not true, then I come across a friendly woman who did believe, then didn't, but now does I think why? Is her reasons for believing sound? Has she found something I missed? If so what is it? :) (I was always known as a child as the one who asked "why?".)

 

Quote

 

I remember though having some mild debates with people who were Christian, when I left the faith, and I remember my ego being the driving force...or maybe just wanting to convince myself as to my reasons for leaving the faith. I think if we're honest, that's what many people do when they leave a religion that they perceive as detrimental, in general. They feel the need to question, debate, and get people to leave that faith of which they no longer are a part of. i get it. But, not everyone's experiences with faith are the same. Not every Christian even views things the same way. There are things in the Bible that I don't believe are literal truths, and some others, I do. So, if you left  Christianity, I understand better than Christians who have never left it. But, my returning to it, shouldn't bother anyone, because everyone's situation is different...and everyone's faith experiences will be different. I came back to a very different kind of faith for me, now. We all have to figure it out for ourselves.

 

Certainly debates are not for everyone. I tend to like it because I like knowing why people think what they think, and it helps me to discover if what I believe is true. If I can't answer someone then a) I don't understand the topic of discussion, or 2) I could be wrong and need to revaluate. But that's me, and like you say we are all different.

 

I'm not so much bothered by your return to Christianity as I am hoping that you haven't been caught by religion again. I guess hoping your reasons are sound rather than just trying to find something that's missing and thinking its Christianity.

 

Certainly your beliefs as described by Margee don't give me much cause for concern... if you believed we are all (all non Christians) going to burn in hell forever then I might be more concerned. :) 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, LogicalFallacy said:

 

Well thank you, I try to be respectful, although at times I probably don't convey that to well. I guess my intentions is, 1) Curiosity: I am interested as to the why and how in your case, as being a baby de-convert of 4 months I am very curious about your reconvert. 2) I care about people believing things that are true, so when I realise I have been believing something that is not true, then I come across a friendly woman who did believe, then didn't, but now does I think why? Is her reasons for believing sound? Has she found something I missed? If so what is it? :) (I was always known as a child as the one who asked "why?".)

 

 

Certainly debates are not for everyone. I tend to like it because I like knowing why people think what they think, and it helps me to discover if what I believe is true. If I can't answer someone then a) I don't understand the topic of discussion, or 2) I could be wrong and need to revaluate. But that's me, and like you say we are all different.

 

I'm not so much bothered by your return to Christianity as I am hoping that you haven't been caught by religion again. I guess hoping your reasons are sound rather than just trying to find something that's missing and thinking its Christianity.

 

Certainly your beliefs as described by Margee don't give me much cause for concern... if you believed we are all (all non Christians) going to burn in hell forever then I might be more concerned. :) 

Idk, but I cried reading this. You have a way with words. lol

 

I think I cried because I remember leaving faith, and in the earlier stages, when I'd talk to Christians, I'd think as you do...''what do they see that I didn't see?'' But, faith is not about seeing something objective, it's a leap of believing in something that we believe, but might not be able to prove. But, for us, for you...we have our own truths, and for me, this truth seems right. Not out of fear or anything, just feels right to me. Is right to me. But, I remember being newly deconverted, like you are...and you seem so Idk the word...kind? and I just don't want to confuse you. My life and path to where I am, is my own, you know? I think where you are, is because of your own experiences, choices, and conclusions about God. Or ''a'' god. Or no god at all. My journey away and back to faith, wasn't easy. My time after deconverting felt right, but all I can say, is that I didn't see...what i now see. But, I can't tell you to see what I see, you know? 

 

Again, thank you for your respect and kindness. I have a saying and it is ''follow your heart.'' Just follow your heart...and life might not always be perfect, nothing is...but staying true to yourself, no matter what anyone says, will be the right thing. 

 

I would like your post 100 times, if I could. I guess talking about all of this is good. :)

 

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator
1 hour ago, Deidre said:

Oh wow, yes. This is pretty much it! I have tears in my eyes reading this. Just surprised me to read it, I guess. 

 

 

You should order and read this book honey. I did. It was one of the books I read when I was questioning fundamentalism. Thousands of people are into this........

 

This is the story of a very popular fundamentalist preacher who lost everything because he decided to decipher the bible and jesus teachings differently than most christians.  He lost his whole congregation except a few and had to start all over. It's called, '' The Gospel of Inclusion: Reaching Beyond Religious Fundamentalism to the True Love of God and Self''

 

This is what my girlfriend is into. Keeps her very peaceful and she believes I'm saved! :D

(hug)

 

https://www.amazon.ca/Gospel-Inclusion-Reaching-Religious-Fundamentalism/dp/1416547932

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Deidre, now I finally have the answer to what I didn't know how to ask you.

 

You say in your profile, "Back to Christianity". 

But you didn't actually go backwards at all, did you? :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator
22 hours ago, Deidre said:

I don't need help. lol Someone posted ''I'd be curious as to why you returned to the faith,'' and I simply shared why. You are turning that around now to implying that I'm witnessing, or sharing my beliefs. That's being dishonest with what happened. I've been a member here for three years, and people of all faiths are permitted to post here, but witnessing, preaching, etc is not permitted which I haven't done. 

 

This thread isn't about me, or Christianity...it's about asking if people have found new faiths or religions to follow after leaving Christianity. I don't wish to spar with you, but you don't know me so attaching your preconceived notions of all Christians onto me, is wrong. You are against Christianity, which is no one's business but your own, I'm not here to change your mind. But, again...this thread isn't about me or Christianity, it's about other's beliefs after leaving Christianity. Nothing more or less, really. I was like you when I left the faith, and wanted to ''correct'' all of my Christian friends as to why Christianty was wrong, or belief in general, when I started identifying as an atheist. When you feel that you know truth, you wish to shout it from the rooftops, so I understand why you are approaching me in this way, because I've done it myself when I was an ex-christian. I can't expect anyone to accept my holy spirit experience as truth for them, but it's truth for me. That is what faith is about, it's a personal thing. No one needs anyone's approval or buy in, to believe in a god, or to follow a particular set of beliefs. That's how I see faith. If you wish to preach your unbelief and why everyone should believe as you do, how are you different from the type of Christian you dislike? 

 

Well, the main difference between myself as a deeply philosophical agnostic atheist with a spiritual side and the type of christians I tend to disagree with and dislike, is that they are promoting the fallacy of and lie of claiming to have absolute truth. There isn't any such thing. Jesus and Christianity are in no way absolutely true for myriad reasons. And myself and everyone else here who will counter christian claims are basically serving the public. Society has been brutalized and held back by people who falsely claim truth, have hindered and try to continue hindering science and advancement as much as possible, and are basically stuck up spiritual snobs who think that their particular blend of mythology is superior to every other on the planet, when in reality it's not just scientifically wrong, but it's also spiritually sub standard in comparison to other beliefs around the world. 

 

Would you like to discuss what's so wrong spiritually with christianity and the content about jesus in the bible? Are you interested in why some would prefer alternative spiritual ideas to christianity's spiritual ideas?  

 

Don't take this wrong, please, but personal experiences of the mystical are experiences of the human mind you ought to know this well having been here for a long time and heard it mentioned so much. That's why I said it's silly to even mention something like experiencing the holy spirit when you never had to mention that part. You could have just told LF that it's personal and you'd rather not discuss the details, but you opted to voice a very common christian proselytizing tool of mentioning the holy spirit in a witnessing type of way, a proud to proclaim it type of way.

 

And upon hearing about the experience I see that this is a classic case of mistaken identity, in terms of interpreting your experience as the holy spirit instead of thinking about it critically at all. Is that the only thing that it be? Only the holy spirit gleaned out of christian mythology? What if it's not at all what you've assumed? You don't care to try and figure out what it might have really been? 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator

Duplicate Post!  Still can't delete posts, apparently...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator

Deidre, the last few posts have given me a better understanding of your position: it's Christian Universalism, if I understand you correctly.  I'm sure it's a pretty widespread belief system, but there aren't many churches that teach it.  Are you familiar with Rob Bell?  We actually had some of his video lessons in our Church of Christ small group a few years ago.  But then he came out as a Univeralist in his book Love Wins, and he was pretty much shunned by conservative Christians after that.  I am not sure whether Rob still calls himself a Christian now. 

 

I think the world would be a better place if most Christians became Christian Universalists, for sure...

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator
3 hours ago, ThereAndBackAgain said:

 

 

I think the world would be a better place if most Christians became Christian Universalists, for sure...

 

 

As I said, I truly understand why humans have a hard time not having anything to believe in. Life is harsh. Death is final to us who don't believe in any gods... even pantheism believes we will just go back into the earth to become part of it. One of the biggest things that I learned during all the investigating that I have done over the past few years is that there are much 'softer' versions of christianity (that aren't near as damaging) and other forms of 'new age' beliefs that give one hope.. but that does not make them true. They are still just beliefs that one holds on to for the sake of some kind of 'hope'. But I also agree with TABA that these 'softer' versions aren't as hard on the world as the fundamentalist points of view. I am not promoting 'The Gospel of Grace'...but I do think it's better than fundamentalism, if you must believe in something..

 

The gospel of grace and the teachings of Universalism are others trying to dechipher a 'softer' way of believing. They are just more human opinions. The gospel of grace allows everyone to enter heaven... even the worst offenders who haven't asked for forgiveness. The gospel of grace goes against most of what the fundamentalist preaches from the bible. The gospel of grace is a whole lot of cherry picking verses from the bible. I certainly like this version of Universalism better than fundamentalism and I would definitely prefer this type of 'belief' but again, for me, it still comes from a 2,000 year old book and that is why I reject it myself. That 2,000 year old book caused me a lot of grief in my life. 

 

I like to classify myself as a peacemaker and try to make 'love' my 'religion' but that doesn't mean I have any personal god to guide my life. Is it a bit empty? Yes. For me it is. But until the 'almighty' makes a personal visit to me, I'll probably remain a non-believer and always hope for the best. I just wish everyone peace.

 

(hugs)

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator

Everybody wants to feel good and everybody wants answers to the imponderable. Some people are content to adopt any belief that makes them feel good and other people require evidence before accepting something as true.

 

There are two ways to approach religion. One may blindly hop on board and think they've found The Answer or one may glean bits of wisdom and comfort in common with all major religions. You may recognize that if the Jesus character is the son of God, then so are we all. Conversely, you may see that tale as the one true story among many such stories of a man-god. Understanding mythology for what is is can lead to understanding how mankind views reality in various times and places.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator
1 hour ago, Margee said:

 

As I said, I truly understand why humans have a hard time not having anything to believe in. Life is harsh. Death is final to us who don't believe in any gods... even pantheism believes we will just go back into the earth to become part of it. One of the biggest things that I learned during all the investigating that I have done over the past few years is that there are much 'softer' versions of christianity (that aren't near as damaging) and other forms of 'new age' beliefs that give one hope.. but that does not make them true. They are still just beliefs that one holds on to for the sake of some kind of 'hope'. But I also agree with TABA that these 'softer' versions aren't as hard on the world as the fundamentalist points of view. I am not promoting 'The Gospel of Grace'...but I do think it's better than fundamentalism, if you must believe in something..

 

The gospel of grace and the teachings of Universalism are others trying to dechipher a 'softer' way of believing. They are just more human opinions. The gospel of grace allows everyone to enter heaven... even the worst offenders who haven't asked for forgiveness. The gospel of grace goes against most of what the fundamentalist preaches from the bible. The gospel of grace is a whole lot of cherry picking verses from the bible. I certainly like this version of Universalism better than fundamentalism and I would definitely prefer this type of 'belief' but again, for me, it still comes from a 2,000 year old book and that is why I reject it myself. That 2,000 year old book caused me a lot of grief in my life. 

 

I like to classify myself as a peacemaker and try to make 'love' my 'religion' but that doesn't mean I have any personal god to guide my life. Is it a bit empty? Yes. For me it is. But until the 'almighty' makes a personal visit to me, I'll probably remain a non-believer and always hope for the best. I just wish everyone peace.

 

(hugs)

 

I do agree with the above about liberal christian ideas being the lesser of two evils with respect to fundamentalism. 

 

But I'm not sure what you mean about feeling empty? Do you get an empty feeling from pantheist philosophy because of the afterlife views? 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.