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Goodbye Jesus

Seeing the past in a new light


Storm

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The other day, Facebook decided to send me back down memory lane and  remind me of this post I made a few years ago:

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As I spent time with God this morning, I had been doing my laundry list of prayer requests as usual. I apologized to Him because I felt bad for asking for so much and for making it seem like a one sided relationship. I felt Him say to me that its ok to ask Him for the things I did because He also asks me for many things as well. As I dwelt on that, I realized its true. He asks for my life. He asks for my trust, He asks for my faith. While it feels like a lot to me, I understand it pales in comparison to what he brings to the table. But I believe it means so much to Him that I give Him my all, that for Him to answer my prayers, let alone just listen to them, is a joy that I may never comprehend. It sure is good to be blessed. : )

 

Nothing about this post is particularly profound (IMHO), but it does underscore the honesty and deeply held beliefs I once held dear. I find myself being critical about the way things were, but I understand that I was unaware of the reality my life was in. I genuinely wanted a deep and strong relationship with God. I wanted it so much. But, as I look back now, I understand it was all in my head. It really was all a one sided relationship. I miss the feelings I got when I felt "god's presence" and how what I perceived as being vulnerable to him made me feel. I can still muster up those feelings at times just by being honest with myself. But I think that the ability to "direct" my honesty to "God" made it seem like so much more than it really was. 

 

But I also have come to understand that my relationship with God was nothing more than chasing feelings. Much like a drug user chases a high, I spent all my time looking for that next "encounter with God". And much like the gambler who wins every so often, I got enough of those "encounters" that it kept me going until I got to the next one. I was completely blind to all the stuff in between: unanswered prayers, silence when I wanted to hear from him, things that just didn't make sense, cognitive distortions. I completely did not pay attention to those issues that I see now because I was so focused on the next encounter with God.

 

While I regret that I spent so much of my life as a Christian, I have to admit that I am now who I am because of it. If I had left the faith earlier, I would likely be a very different person than I am now. Those beliefs and feelings, as much as I wish I never had them, have shaped me into the person I am now. And I cannot say that I hate that. I cannot say that I regret who I am. I am someone who has just learned the truth. I am someone who understands life in a much better and real way. All of my life has led me to this moment. And I like it.

 

Maybe I am coming to terms with who I was and maybe I will eventually be able to be unaffected by Christianity in regards to hating it and wanting nothing to do with any aspect of it. I am not there yet, but I think I am getting closer. This makes me happy.

 

Its a good day. :)

 

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You may be giving christianity too much credit, even then. Perhaps you're just naturally a descent human being and you would've been the same regardless of god and christianity. It's hard to know whether or not christianity even plays a role in that. I feel the same way in terms of thinking that my upbringing in christianity gave me a moral compass. But I question that sometimes. Because there's god awful assholes in christianity. It didn't do the same for them that it did for me or you. And perhaps it's not the christianity doing anything, it's whether you're wired as a complete asshole or not. Those who are wired to lust molestation, do so regardless of christianity. Those who are wired to lust for murder, do so regardless of christianity. Imagine the assholes during the Spanish Inquisition. Total psycho paths born and raised in christianity. Justifying their actions because the jews are the villains of the NT. Hilter, a roman catholic. Etc. No moral compass whatsoever, even though having been raised in christianity. So at the end of the day I really question how much credit I ought to give christianity in terms of throwing it a bone here and there for helping with morality. 

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6 hours ago, Storm said:

While I regret that I spent so much of my life as a Christian, I have to admit that I am now who I am because of it. If I had left the faith earlier, I would likely be a very different person than I am now.

 

Xianity made me the person I am too, Storm.

 

That person can spot addiction a mile away.

 

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37 minutes ago, Joshpantera said:

You may be giving christianity too much credit, even then. Perhaps you're just naturally a descent human being and you would've been the same regardless of god and christianity. It's hard to know whether or not christianity even plays a role in that. I feel the same way in terms of thinking that my upbringing in christianity gave me a moral compass. But I question that sometimes. Because there's god awful assholes in christianity. It didn't do the same for them that it did for me or you. And perhaps it's not the christianity doing anything, it's whether you're wired as a complete asshole or not. Those who are wired to lust molestation, do so regardless of christianity. Those who are wired to lust for murder, do so regardless of christianity. Imagine the assholes during the Spanish Inquisition. Total psycho paths born and raised in christianity. Justifying their actions because the jews are the villains of the NT. Hilter, a roman catholic. Etc. No moral compass whatsoever, even though having been raised in christianity. So at the end of the day I really question how much credit I ought to give christianity in terms of throwing it a bone here and there for helping with morality. 

You make a good point here. I do think I have naturally based morals. I have always been a trusting person and I have always tried to see the good in others. I think that is me, and not Christianity.

And you're certainly right in that there are religious assholes and atheist "saints". Thanks for bringing this up.

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3 minutes ago, MOHO said:

 

Xianity made me the person I am too, Storm.

 

That person can spot addiction a mile away.

 

I think Josh made a good point. While I do believe Christianity shaped me in many ways, maybe I do give it too much credit. Of course, my Christian upbringing would gladly support the premise of giving God all of the credit. Certainly food for thought.

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Hey Storm - I really appreciate your post and feel much the same way as you do.  I don't think you over-credit Christianity.  It's just that it was a big part of your life's journey - and all that you experienced in Christianity, the good and the bad, shaped you to be who you are. I'm glad for you that you LIKE who you are.  That's a difficult place to arrive after being told that we are so depraved we deserve conscious eternal punishment.  Thanks for sharing!  

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16 hours ago, Storm said:

...I spent all my time looking for that next "encounter with God"....

 

While I regret that I spent so much of my life as a Christian, I have to admit that I am now who I am because of it. If I had left the faith earlier, I would likely be a very different person than I am now. Those beliefs and feelings, as much as I wish I never had them, have shaped me into the person I am now. And I cannot say that I hate that. I cannot say that I regret who I am. I am someone who has just learned the truth. I am someone who understands life in a much better and real way. All of my life has led me to this moment. And I like it.

 

Hey Storm!

 

I can really relate to what you posted here. (And I thank dog that my fundagelical days pre-date Facebook! Gah!)

 

I too was always chasing the dragon. And I too was so convinced god was real and in a real relationship with me. :blink:

 

I am glad (and sort of envy!) that you are gaining a peace about who you are, and about the road it took to get you there. I seem to be stuck in the regret phase. I can't believe I bought this horse shit for so long! I wasted decades. I could weep!

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14 hours ago, Insightful said:

Hey Storm - I really appreciate your post and feel much the same way as you do.  I don't think you over-credit Christianity.  It's just that it was a big part of your life's journey - and all that you experienced in Christianity, the good and the bad, shaped you to be who you are. I'm glad for you that you LIKE who you are.  That's a difficult place to arrive after being told that we are so depraved we deserve conscious eternal punishment.  Thanks for sharing!  

Thanks. I think there's a balance in there somewhere between what I originally posted and what Josh indicated. I like myself at this point, however that is subject to change. Unfortunately. But I will enjoy it while it lasts.

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12 hours ago, Positivist said:

 

Hey Storm!

 

I can really relate to what you posted here. (And I thank dog that my fundagelical days pre-date Facebook! Gah!)

 

I too was always chasing the dragon. And I too was so convinced god was real and in a real relationship with me. :blink:

 

I am glad (and sort of envy!) that you are gaining a peace about who you are, and about the road it took to get you there. I seem to be stuck in the regret phase. I can't believe I bought this horse shit for so long! I wasted decades. I could weep!

Thanks for sharing. I know things are tough for you right now with all you're going through. You really impacted my life early on when I was just starting this journey and I appreciate that. Life is bumpy for you now, but it will smooth out in time. I know you know this, but sometimes its comforting to see and hear it from someone to help remind us. As your name implies, stay positive. You will get there.

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You know, thinking about this, I really don't want to get to stage where I am unaffected by Christianity, as Storm seems to suggest.  He speaks of hating it.  Yes, I do.  Not Christians personally - some are sincere, some are objectionable - but the whole doctrinal structure that causes so much stress and suffering.

 

I hate it because it splits people apart unnecessarily.  I hate it because I have seen mothers weeping over their unsaved children.  I hate it because I have seen old folk who have wasted their lives conforming to a strict moral code that forbids them to actually live in any meaningful sense.  I hate it because it requires people to try to foist their prejudices on those of other nations who have their own cultures and spiritualities to explore - and in doing so can destroy those cultures and spiritualities.  I hate it because it tried - and still tries - to control me.

 

And I have every intention to continue hating it. Because, if I become indifferent, it will be just that little bit more free to continue spreading its' poison.

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3 hours ago, Ellinas said:

You know, thinking about this, I really don't want to get to stage where I am unaffected by Christianity, as Storm seems to suggest.  He speaks of hating it.  Yes, I do.  Not Christians personally - some are sincere, some are objectionable - but the whole doctrinal structure that causes so much stress and suffering.

 

I hate it because it splits people apart unnecessarily.  I hate it because I have seen mothers weeping over their unsaved children.  I hate it because I have seen old folk who have wasted their lives conforming to a strict moral code that forbids them to actually live in any meaningful sense.  I hate it because it requires people to try to foist their prejudices on those of other nations who have their own cultures and spiritualities to explore - and in doing so can destroy those cultures and spiritualities.  I hate it because it tried - and still tries - to control me.

 

And I have every intention to continue hating it. Because, if I become indifferent, it will be just that little bit more free to continue spreading its' poison.

This, this, this. THIS. 

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20 hours ago, Ellinas said:

You know, thinking about this, I really don't want to get to stage where I am unaffected by Christianity, as Storm seems to suggest.  He speaks of hating it.  Yes, I do.  Not Christians personally - some are sincere, some are objectionable - but the whole doctrinal structure that causes so much stress and suffering.

 

I hate it because it splits people apart unnecessarily.  I hate it because I have seen mothers weeping over their unsaved children.  I hate it because I have seen old folk who have wasted their lives conforming to a strict moral code that forbids them to actually live in any meaningful sense.  I hate it because it requires people to try to foist their prejudices on those of other nations who have their own cultures and spiritualities to explore - and in doing so can destroy those cultures and spiritualities.  I hate it because it tried - and still tries - to control me.

 

I understand your feelings and I agree to a point. I want to be able to function without it harboring deep feelings of anger and hatred towards all the time in my life that I spent in it. I do want to eradicate it, and I do hate it for the very reasons you describe.

 

I guess when it all comes down to it, I just want to be able to confront it from a stance where I am not affected by it personally, like I have to open up this wound every time I deal with it. That is what I long for. I want the wounds to heal and be irrelevant in how I confront it. I see this attitude in people like Neil Carter and Matt Dillahunty. They still care about reaching people and opening their eyes. They want to see the world be a better place without religion. I want that. I want to be able to be free from the hurt and anger I feel from it. This is where I am heading. This is the Journey I am on right now.

 

In a way, deconverting is like falling down the rabbit hole. So much happens and so many emotions and feelings happen as you deprogram and learn how to live an entirely different life. But we have to reach a bottom at some point. I don't mean a "rock bottom", per se, but a point in which we are able to stand up again and start to build a new framework of thinking and beliefs. A new way to process the world around us. Then we begin to use our new found ideas, thinking and beliefs and we start to climb back up the hole back into the real world and see it for what it really is. See it in a way that we understand. And become able to work in it without forgetting who we were, but yet moving forward as who we now are.

 

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And I have every intention to continue hating it. Because, if I become indifferent, it will be just that little bit more free to continue spreading its' poison.

Your hate is a poison as well. Hate can consume you. It controls you. I don't want that. I want to be in control. I can remember without hating. I can do good in this world without that hate. You can do as you want. I respect that. I hope that you also make a difference in your own way. If it is hate that fuels you, then so be it. But I don't want hate in my life. Its too heavy a burden to bear.

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There is a balance to be struck here, I accept.  Actually, there is nothing intrinsically wrong in the concept of "hate".  Would it not seem strange to say that one does not hate cruelty, injustice, unfairness...?  I doubt if this would poison anyone, however.  I simply see Christianity in the same light - because it is cruel, unjust, unfair.  That is not the same, however, as becoming personally bitter and twisted, which I assume is what you are getting at.

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15 hours ago, Ellinas said:

There is a balance to be struck here, I accept.  Actually, there is nothing intrinsically wrong in the concept of "hate".  Would it not seem strange to say that one does not hate cruelty, injustice, unfairness...?  I doubt if this would poison anyone, however.  I simply see Christianity in the same light - because it is cruel, unjust, unfair.  That is not the same, however, as becoming personally bitter and twisted, which I assume is what you are getting at.

I agree. This is an instance of the inability to know what type of hate you were referring to, due to the fact we are talking on the web. I understand what you are saying. I apologize for the poor assumption.

 

As one who has been working towards leaving the beliefs I held so long, I often feel wounded and volatile in regards to Christianity. But I do not want this to be so. I understand that it is merely a normal part of being human to be a part of a religious group. Most people do at some point. This is unfortunate, however, there does seem to be some legitimacy as to why this is. And it makes some sense, to me. I think that saying that I hate Christianity would be inaccurate. I don't really hate it. I hate what people do with it. I hate that people get indoctrinated without any choice in it. I hate that its difficult to deprogram from. But I understand it. I understand some of the why that it exists. It has the potential to do some good. And also very bad. Would the world be a better place without it? I don't honestly know. I would like to think so. Its unlikely I will ever find out. But I certainly will do my best to see that my daughter is able to choose for herself. And maybe her kids and so on.

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No need to apologise.  Words are imprecise at best - your assumption was no poorer than the clarity of my expression.

 

Getting past raw emotion, and bringing it under control of rational thought, takes time.  But it can be done.  As to your daughter - she is very lucky to be in an environment with no pressure to confirm to any belief system, and that is something from which the world at large would most definitely benefit.

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