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I have spent my whole life in a strict fundamentalist church as a very obedient and unquestioning Christian. I was a model sunday school teacher, I've sacrificed time and energy. Difficult life events and challenges lead me to questioning and wanting to understand what exactly I believed and why, particularly as I believed half my family was doomed to hell. Ultimately it all unraveled when difficulties forced me to confront my own mortality head on and I started seeing a therapist for various issues. The best thing my therapist could have done for me was to bring up Dawkins when I mentioned the stress caused by my beliefs. It took me a while to get up the nerve to start reading, and after I got through Dawkins' God Delusion I was starving for information. I've been on a reading binge ever since - Holloway, Ehrman, Held Evans, Tarico, Winnell, Ray.

 

The funny thing with all this is that it takes awhile for the information to sink in, but slowly and surely, I know there is no turning around, no going back. Knowledge is power. It takes a lot of fear and a lot of ignorance to keep someone indoctrinated. And the fear does not go away overnight. If you've been lucky enough to have an education that instills critical thinking skills then you stand a chance of getting yourself out. I look at half of my family today, and I feel deep pity for the suffering their beliefs are inflicting on them, psychological suffering because they sincerely believe that Satan controls some of us and we are going to hell. It's hard to fathom that I lost so many years to this. Yes, I feel some anger, but mostly gratitude that I've seen the light.

 

I have not 'come out' with my beliefs and my therapist says doing so is not a good idea until I have some social support network in place to replace the one I know will fall apart. Any opinions on this? Anyone who has been part of a strict fundamentalist church can probably imagine the difficulty of going to church and pretending to be a believer, let alone following all the rules, when you don't believe a word of it. Fundamentalist churches have so many ways of monitoring members, and it is accepted behavior that is camouflaged as 'concern' for people.

 

I"m probably one of the lucky ones in that I don't have a spouse and children who were indoctrinated. I can imagine the family tension when one sees the light and the others wish not to. My greatest anger is that I've wasted half my life waiting for that perfect God-given partner who has never appeared, and now that I know it's all truly up to me, the dating world feels so foreign and I'm leagues behind in feeling comfortable there. What kinds of challenges does an atheist face with dating? Is it common for atheists to be treated like the plague in the dating world?

 

I'm looking forward to reading the forums on here, it's so refreshing to come across a corner of the internet where there are thinking, sane, logical intelligent beings.

 

-TruthSeeker

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Welcome, TruthSeeker.  I'm glad you found us.  I'd advise getting to know yourself for a little while before you worry about dating.  Figure out who you are without the beliefs and extra baggage.  That will make it easier to determine what kind of partner you want.

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13 hours ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

I"m probably one of the lucky ones in that I don't have a spouse and children who were indoctrinated. I can imagine the family tension when one sees the light and the others wish not to. My greatest anger is that I've wasted half my life waiting for that perfect God-given partner who has never appeared, and now that I know it's all truly up to me, the dating world feels so foreign and I'm leagues behind in feeling comfortable there. What kinds of challenges does an atheist face with dating? Is it common for atheists to be treated like the plague in the dating world?

 

I agree with Redneck Professor on this one. Give it a little time. Get to know your own thoughts and feelings before you start dating. I would start off slow. Maybe go do something (out of town away from prying eyes). Go somewhere you know no one would see you. Buy a couple of drinks you might like. Go home and sin a little. I know that sounds foreign at this point. It is for me to as well because I once was a preacher. And have also just deconverted recently after a long sabbatical trying to answer the questions I had. Im supposed to tell people not to sin lol. Listen to some music your church would have forbidden. See how you like it. You might even want to look at some X rated stuff on the net. I mean seriously from the sound of it you have been depriving yourself. So I suggest experimenting on your own before you take a leap and start dating someone who has been "of the world" their whole lives. Who knows maybe you can find another ExChristian you can relate too. That understands what your going through. ( thats not a pick up line either im a happily married man already?) 

 

13 hours ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

The funny thing with all this is that it takes awhile for the information to sink in, but slowly and surely, I know there is no turning around, no going back. Knowledge is power. It takes a lot of fear and a lot of ignorance to keep someone indoctrinated. And the fear does not go away overnight. If you've been lucky enough to have an education that instills critical thinking skills then you stand a chance of getting yourself out. I look at half of my family today, and I feel deep pity for the suffering their beliefs are inflicting on them, psychological suffering because they sincerely believe that Satan controls some of us and we are going to hell. It's hard to fathom that I lost so many years to this. Yes, I feel some anger, but mostly gratitude that I've seen the light.

Your right the fear is the hardest thing to shake. It's a very powerful tool. I hope that I can completely shake it one day. My wife told me she thinks everyone calls on God on there death bed. I hope I do not. She hasn't been supportive of my deconversion, but she also isn't a religious fanatic anymore so she hasn't condemned me either. She loves me even if I don't love God. So that's cool. Their is still that little...... what if I've made a big mistake stuck back there somewhere. I'm reading and studying trying to slowly work that out. Like you said. Knowledge is power.

 

13 hours ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

I have not 'come out' with my beliefs and my therapist says doing so is not a good idea until I have some social support network in place to replace the one I know will fall apart. Any opinions on this? Anyone who has been part of a strict fundamentalist church can probably imagine the difficulty of going to church and pretending to be a believer, let alone following all the rules, when you don't believe a word of it. Fundamentalist churches have so many ways of monitoring members, and it is accepted behavior that is camouflaged as 'concern' for people.

I haven't come out with my beliefs openly yet either except for my immediate family and a few friends. If said in other comments on this site that I probably won't tell my momom. As far as she knows I'm just trying to get things straightened out. And I still believe but I'm not going to church. 

      I still may have to make an appearance from time to time. But I can live with that. It's not as bad as your situation. I do suggest you find a few friends. Maybe at work or something of that nature. Your right. When you leave your church you will lose the core of your social network. But you might also start hanging out with that half of the family you thought was going to hell before. I have a very close relationship with my twin uncles. One is agnostic the other is pagan. My uncle made the comment he likes the new me better than the Christian me lol. But even back then he would still hang out with me and stuff. We could always find common ground even if it wasn't religion.

 

I wish the best of luck to you. The guys on this site are amazing. They have really helped me in this journey and I know they can help you as well. Just being able to talk to others that understand goes a long way in this process.

 

Dark Bishop

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TruthSeeker0,

 

Well, I don't think you'll have too many problems adjusting.  You have some great intellectual and emotional tools in your toolbox and you are already well on your journey.  I agree with your therapist, its a good idea to form some sort of newer social network before you reveal your change to the folks in your current network.  That could simply involve joining a group that focuses on one or two of your hobbies, crafting a continuing self-education program covering subjects of your choosing, volunteering your time for causes that are important to you, among other things.  You have rightly predicted that the blowback from some of your family, friends and acquaintances will occur. Their reactions belong to them and not to you.  Don't take ownership of their issues or foster codependancy with them (speak more to your therapist about this).  At the same time, do your best to maintain a high moral ground and consistent message.

 

As to dating, I have no idea.

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Welcome TruthSeeker

 

Things become easier with time. I was (Still kinda am) a member of a fundie church. On top of that the church is very small thus my social circle is very small. I still have no contact outside my church friends which isn't helped by being an introvert.

 

15 hours ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

I have not 'come out' with my beliefs and my therapist says doing so is not a good idea until I have some social support network in place to replace the one I know will fall apart. Any opinions on this? Anyone who has been part of a strict fundamentalist church can probably imagine the difficulty of going to church and pretending to be a believer, let alone following all the rules, when you don't believe a word of it. Fundamentalist churches have so many ways of monitoring members, and it is accepted behavior that is camouflaged as 'concern' for people.

 

This is a very good idea, if you can get yourself a new support network. I hang around at Ex-C for a few months, but didn't and still haven't managed to make any out of church contacts where I live. I don't know where to start there so really stuck, small city, no interest groups that interest me. So ultimately yes, if you can get something up and running do so. I'm still in church because of family pressure so half the time I'm sitting there rolling my eyes and thinking its a load of horseshit. I try and tune out, but I start debating with the pastor in my head lol.

 

15 hours ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

 

I"m probably one of the lucky ones in that I don't have a spouse and children who were indoctrinated. I can imagine the family tension when one sees the light and the others wish not to. My greatest anger is that I've wasted half my life waiting for that perfect God-given partner who has never appeared, and now that I know it's all truly up to me, the dating world feels so foreign and I'm leagues behind in feeling comfortable there. What kinds of challenges does an atheist face with dating? Is it common for atheists to be treated like the plague in the dating world?

 

Same here - didn't have to deal with spouse/children fallout like some here. It's not easy from the stories you can read. It's hard enough dealing with the family fallout. They think they are the ones hard hit, without realising that we are now the ones without contacts who think and believe what we do. Annoys me, but I try not get too worked up.

 

Right dating.... I am useless here as I have never dated, don't know where to start. As Ygritte says in Game of Throne "You known nothing". I too waited for God to bring along a woman into the church to marry. (Born in a fundie church, told that dating was bad, God would find someone, and woman were not to be trusted) Some 15 years later, I'm like shit this is a scary world and literally don't have a clue what to do.

 

However I have looked at online dating sites, not sure if you want to try that? You can tell it to only match you with x criteria, so I reject any people with a religion so I know that non belief in God is one thing we have in common.

 

Like TRP says, don't rush. When you do come out, there will be a lot going on anyway so you might not be in the best frame of mind for dating anyway for a while.

 

 

15 hours ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

 

I'm looking forward to reading the forums on here, it's so refreshing to come across a corner of the internet where there are thinking, sane, logical intelligent beings.

 

-TruthSeeker

 

+1000 to this one.

 

All the best

 

LF

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14 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

Welcome, TruthSeeker.  I'm glad you found us.  I'd advise getting to know yourself for a little while before you worry about dating.  Figure out who you are without the beliefs and extra baggage.  That will make it easier to determine what kind of partner you want.

 

Good advice, I'll take it!

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8 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

 

 Listen to some music your church would have forbidden. See how you like it. You might even want to look at some X rated stuff on the net. I mean seriously from the sound of it you have been depriving yourself.

You don't know the half of it. My church is similar to the Amish or Mennonite, the only difference is that we're modern in regards to technology and dress (besides TV,) so you won't recognize us, and of course the doctrine is different, but I'm guessing other than that the rules are pretty much the same. I keep looking in the Bible to find a basis for all these rules, and of course most are not to be found, in fact I see the opposite in some cases.

8 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

 

Your right the fear is the hardest thing to shake. It's a very powerful tool. I hope that I can completely shake it one day. My wife told me she thinks everyone calls on God on there death bed. I hope I do not.

This is my greatest fear, that my rational mind will fail and wishful thinking will take over. I think I'm rightly a bit concerned that I may be vulnerable to the incredible pressure and fear mongering if I come out with my beliefs openly. I probably need more time. When I mentioned this vulnerability to my therapist he told me his greatest fear is that there is an afterlife and that it doesn't end and none of us even have the opportunity of dying from boredom. This is a good way to turn that fear on its head.

8 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

 

I haven't come out with my beliefs openly yet either except for my immediate family and a few friends. If said in other comments on this site that I probably won't tell my mom.

For me this appeared to be a black and white issue at first (leave unequivocally or believe unequivocally), probably because I've had black and white thinking in this area, but what are a few white lies if they're not malicious or doing people outright harm? in fact they are protecting them from the emotional hysteria that will result.

 

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Welcome, TruthSeeker! So glad you found Ex-c! You are never alone on this site my dear!! Keep reading and posting and soon you will find a new 'world view'. Christianity was a comfort to many of us at one time because we were told that god had all the answers and now our lives are up to us. It can be a bit scary at first. Just sick your toes in a bit at a time and you'll find your way. There are hundreds of posts here to show you some of the good stuff and some of the things you'll have to overcome. That's why I always advise newcomers to do a lot of reading.(especially the 'testimonies' of the x-christians) Reading the posts really helped me so much and the members here helped me through a very tough time when I first arrived here.. You may not find a lot of like-minded people right away (out in the big world) but you can feel really good that you have an 'internet home' to come to. We totally understand what you are going through.

 

So glad you are here with us! Hang in there hon!

 

(hug)

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Congrats on your escape. Deconversion is a process not an event. It takes time, and sometimes a lot of time, to get that garbage out of your head. 

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On 2017-03-16 at 3:06 PM, sdelsolray said:

  I agree with your therapist, its a good idea to form some sort of newer social network before you reveal your change to the folks in your current network.  That could simply involve joining a group that focuses on one or two of your hobbies, crafting a continuing self-education program covering subjects of your choosing, volunteering your time for causes that are important to you, among other things.  You have rightly predicted that the blowback from some of your family, friends and acquaintances will occur. Their reactions belong to them and not to you.  Don't take ownership of their issues or foster codependancy with them (speak more to your therapist about this).  At the same time, do your best to maintain a high moral ground and consistent message.

 

Excellent advice and ideas, I've been trying to figure out where can I find potential new friends to to connect with. Some of the same advice has come from those in my family who also left, about building a network first.

Why why why is it always about the family who remain? I guess maybe their pain makes them blind to the difficulties the other person is going through (this is easy for me to say, I experienced it myself) but this also results in a huge guilt trip for the person leaving, just an additional hurdle they really should not have to deal with.

 

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9 hours ago, Margee said:

You may not find a lot of like-minded people right away (out in the big world) but you can feel really good that you have an 'internet home' to come to. We totally understand what you are going through.

 

So glad you are here with us! Hang in there hon!

 

 

Maybe I won't out there, but I think this community is pretty awesome. How ironic that I always thought atheists were awful terrible people who did their best to make the world a crazy place. My mind was blown when I watched some of Richard Dawkins' documentaries on youtube - it was so apparent that he was the only sane one in a room of religious fanatics who all had their arguments figured out. And it was even clearer when he discussed the dangers of religious fanaticism and the way religion can tend to support war and division instead of peace and unity. Over the years I know I've had this discomfort with religion, in particular with the Christian one and the way it's used to justify what has happened to Native Americans with the process of colonialism and also in regards to a complete disregard to environmental concerns or conservation - after all, God did say to subdue the earth, or something like that so who cares! Or the other crazy argument, we're only hastening Jesus' coming if we destroy it. When I finally weighed the possibility that my beliefs have been just as 'true' as those of the Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses, whom I have always thought of as crazy, I knew something big was starting to happen.

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9 hours ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

Maybe I won't out there, but I think this community is pretty awesome. How ironic that I always thought atheists were awful terrible people who did their best to make the world a crazy place.

I know it's crazy right? I blamed athiests and progressives for everything that was wrong with america and the world. I felt we had lost God's favor because we had turned our back on him by taking prayer out of schools, taking the ten commandments out of courthouses, and all the other anti religion movements athiests fight for with govt.

        Now I find myself getting pissed off because christians are pushing their beliefs on everyone's kids. Not just their own. You really don't understand why people do things until you've walked in their shoes.

 

DB

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10 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

I know it's crazy right? I blamed athiests and progressives for everything that was wrong with america and the world. I felt we had lost God's favor because we had turned our back on him by taking prayer out of schools, taking the ten commandments out of courthouses, and all the other anti religion movements athiests fight for with govt.

        Now I find myself getting pissed off because christians are pushing their beliefs on everyone's kids. Not just their own. You really don't understand why people do things until you've walked in their shoes.

 

DB

 

Amen to that, brother.  Now that my own childhood indoctrination into religion has been pretty thoroughly reversed, I realize the horror of it.  I know young parents who, while not overly religious, are already working on filling their toddlers' minds with God stuff and it makes me sad.  

 

I'm still not a fan of many of today's 'progresssives' or 'liberals' though.  I see many adopting a secular religion of identity politics and 'social justice' that is actually frighteningly illiberal.  So I'm somewhat homeless politically now: I'm part libertarian, part classical liberal, part something else.  I still think capitalism with sensible regulation is the best system.  DB, I think you posted a poll recently where you mentioned being a constitutionalist.  I think we're pretty close in this area.  You and I would have plenty to talk about over a beer or some good bourbon ?: politics and religion, the things they tell us to avoid, but subjects that free-thinking people who respect each other can appreciate and learn from each other. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, ThereAndBackAgain said:

 

Amen to that, brother.  Now that my own childhood indoctrination into religion has been pretty thoroughly reversed, I realize the horror of it.  I know young parents who, while not overly religious, are already working on filling their toddlers' minds with God stuff and it makes me sad.  

 

I'm still not a fan of many of today's 'progresssives' or 'liberals' though.  I see many adopting a secular religion of identity politics and 'social justice' that is actually frighteningly illiberal.  So I'm somewhat homeless politically now: I'm part libertarian, part classical liberal, part something else.  I still think capitalism with sensible regulation is the best system.  DB, I think you posted a poll recently where you mentioned being a constitutionalist.  I think we're pretty close in this area.  You and I would have plenty to talk about over a beer or some good bourbon ?: politics and religion, the things they tell us to avoid, but subjects that free-thinking people who respect each other can appreciate and learn from each other. 

 

 

Yes I posted that. I don't like the "liberal/progressive" movement either. I thoroughly support and respect everyones rights outlined in the constitution. But neither of out current major political parties do. It is really sad to see this going on in america. I would love to sit down over a few drinks and shoot the shit with ya on politics and religion. 

 

DB

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14 hours ago, ThereAndBackAgain said:

 

Amen to that, brother.  Now that my own childhood indoctrination into religion has been pretty thoroughly reversed, I realize the horror of it.  I know young parents who, while not overly religious, are already working on filling their toddlers' minds with God stuff and it makes me sad.  

 

Filling children's minds with this indoctrination and fear is what really horrifies me...I was an active participant in that and I cannot believe I taught it without opening the Bible myself and reading about everything that wasn't in the lessons (of course only selected texts were recommended as prep material). When I opened it to read some more, it caused serious questions and turmoil. The position and abuse of women and the actions of supposedly righteous men in the Bible sicken me, particularly the Old Testament.

 

How many of you have provided some explanation to your family on leaving and was it helpful or did it just make the situation worse? I'm wondering if it's even worth it as I know I'll just be considered "beyond help" and "lost to Satan." I do however feel that I owe an explanation to my parents at least.

 

 

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2 hours ago, TruthSeeker0 said:

How many of you have provided some explanation to your family on leaving and was it helpful or did it just make the situation worse? I'm wondering if it's even worth it as I know I'll just be considered "beyond help" and "lost to Satan." I do however feel that I owe an explanation to my parents at least.

 

Ive only told my wife and kids. My wife seems to be able to look past the issues that were just to much for me to accept. But my mom and dad are very religious it's not that I think they would disown me. I just know it would hurt them. I would rather them live out the rest of their days thinking what they wanna think and not knowing the truth.

      But everyone's situation is different. Weigh the pros and cons. If you can deal with the cons then go for it. 

 

DB

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Many people leaving or considering leaving a cult of any size need to be convinced that there is no supernatural connection or power the cult has over them at all. Those leaving belief systems that are based on fantastical claims of power and fearful claims of pending destruction must come to terms with the unreality of those claims. 

 

Now that you are looking squarely down that path, how shall you live and have the life you want. After investing so much energy in fantasy and fear, their may be grief and a sense of loss and pain, not a loss of faith, but that of years of real life. Embrace that pain. Get used to life in a more solitary self aware sense. Then, piece by piece, invest in a new one with real people who share the love for this life, here, on this earth.

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20 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

 

 I just know it would hurt them. I would rather them live out the rest of their days thinking what they wanna think and not knowing the truth.

 

I feel exactly the same way. I will avoid hurting my parents as long as I can. I fear the damage it could do them as I have seen it before. i probably have a larger burden of guilt because of this even though I know I should not feel guilty, it's my life to live. However, I know eventually my needs will take priority and hurting them will be inevitable, as there is no escaping the eyes and the ears of the church, so to speak. Members are so invested in ensuring that everyone stays in the fold. When living the life you want to live involves breaking rules, being outed at some point becomes inevitable.

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2 hours ago, FoundationOfUnity said:

Now that you are looking squarely down that path, how shall you live and have the life you want. After investing so much energy in fantasy and fear, their may be grief and a sense of loss and pain, not a loss of faith, but that of years of real life. Embrace that pain. Get used to life in a more solitary self aware sense. Then, piece by piece, invest in a new one with real people who share the love for this life, here, on this earth.

I've felt some grief, but not nearly as much as I have expected. I anticipate a lot more of that if/when my beliefs become public and I truly lose the social network and any sense of support I've had. However I'd rather begin to invest in a life with real people before the shunning, so to speak, happens.

 

I've had lots of really positive feelings that are truly hard to put into words. How do I explain what it feels like when my whole life I've feared the world and people in it (not least because I know they will tell me my beliefs are crazy) and "othered" them to the extent that they might as well be from another kind of planet. And then you wake up to the joy of knowing you're just one of them, like any other person on this planet going on with your life, and that those 99% of the human species you've always thought are going to hell are just here on a journey together with you.

 

I had grief when I realized heaven and hell don't exist, that I won't be living forever after all in a place where there's happiness. But I will take reality any day and knowing that the "disbelievers" in my family as well as the rest of the world will not be roasting in hell. I've a theory that it's largely the people who have some humanity and a care for others that leave the Christian religion, when they finally realize just how unjust and cruel the Christian God is when you get down to it.

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Life can be satisfying and we can be proud of ourselves and connected to others now. That is happiness in our self and respect for others too. Those who know no religious myths of heaven and hell enjoy vibrant full lives from birth till death. It is only the introduction of blame, threat, and eternal fear that put a cloud over otherwise happy people's lives and empower tyrants to enact laws and educational ideas that debilitate the masses...all to the tyrant's benefits. 

 

To be free of god, requires meaningful relationships without god involved but with your values still in place. Freedom without god requires an understanding of your ability to make choices to reach the beautify life you can envision without god. Freedom from god requires adding value to others in ways they are willing to pay for which in turn helps create a happier world experience for many. This is business. God is not relevant to any of it but what is then relevant? I suggest natural law and the law that respects the autonomy and rights of others so that my rights to sling my fist end well before your nose. God and the bible added nothing to the knowledge of right and wrong. Anything in the bible was found all around the world long before some tyrant or shepherd claimed he heard it in a vision from someone from outer space.

 

Go to a good secular college and learn evolution or watch it here: 

You may not know this but in the first two decades after Darwin published his findings, the entire world knew that if evolution were to be confirmed steadily that cristianity was disproved. The founders of Cornell University, Alfred Dickson White, wrote extensively on this subject and on the side of evolution. Christians never give up their one belief even if all other evidence says it is wrong. They are committed to the bible and will never let that go if they are in the leadership of the top of the top...like Ken Hambone of Answers in gibberish. If all the evidence is against them, they will lie and build monuments, like the city now over the site called Nazareth...a city that wasn't. They build monuments to nothing and claim it is what the bible said. This is the basis of their faith, and their hell.

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