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Jon

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If you athiests dont believe in God ,hiw did the universe cone into being?

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14 minutes ago, Jon said:

If you athiests dont believe in God ,hiw did the universe cone into being?

 

I don't know, and neither do you.  Certain scientific hypotheses attempt to explain it using all available empirical evidence and reasonable inferences.  However, they do not (and never will) definitively answer your question.

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Here is a universal cone, Jon.

 

http://www.cosmiclight.com/ofquasars/lightcone.html

 

 

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Throughout history, the "god of the gaps" has had a great run. When people didn't understand volcanoes, epilepsy, epidemics, drought or eclipses, such mysterious things were attributed to the activity of a god. Nobody currently knows exactly how the universe began, if indeed it had a beginning, and declaring that it must be due to the action of some god is a rather lame cop out.

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Each time science fills in one of the gaps, god gets a little smaller.  How small can he get and still be god?

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12 hours ago, Jon said:

If you athiests dont believe in God ,hiw did the universe cone into being?

 

I think you mean, if God didn't create the universe, then how did the universe come into being.

 

Perhaps the FSM (Peace be upon his noodles) waved an arm. I have as much proof for that as you have for YOUR God doing anything. I say "your" because many religions have a claim of a creator God. You are particularly invoking your god here.

 

Here's a clip from Neil Degrass Tyson saying what TRP said in more detail :

 

 

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18 hours ago, Jon said:

If you athiests dont believe in God ,hiw did the universe cone into being?

Why are you asking generic atheists?  You should be getting your answers from people with the knowledge to help you understand a complex subject. 

Granted many of the experts you find will be atheists, but you may be so used to faith being enough for you that you can just get your answers anywhere?

I regularly get information from people more knowledgeable in a subject than me so I can make rational decisions. I may not understand well enough to turn around and explain it all to the next person, but those experts can often explain it well enough for me to be a consumer of that knowledge. 

Lucky for you, there are a few on here who may actually have a good answer for you on this subject. 

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Hey, Jon... nice of you to come by. I am only sorry nobody warned you.

 

See, most times, when a person like you (look - I can generalize, too, asshole) comes on here, the real brains around here cut them to shreds and they leave me the room for some nasty ad hominem work,

 

Here's the thing: not everyone here is an atheist, and not every theist believes that the cause of the origin of the universe was YOUR version of god.

 

in fact, dumb-ass, why don't you go figure out why you can't even agree on doctrines with some of your "fellow" Christards right down the road from you, instead of coming here and acting like this is a clearinghouse for every perfect answer to every confusing question that arises when we contemplate the universe.

 

See, we're not all atheists, and not all atheists, theists or lots of other people are able to be bothered with answering questions that have to do with your imaginary sky-daddy, the schizophrenic fucker that he is.

 

We're EX-CHRISTIANS, dipshit. That means we don't believe in your invisible man and his mindfuck of a religion.

 

For what it's worth, retard, the universe didn't "come into being". It evolved. Matter evolves. That's been shown through scientific research for many, many years now.

 

Whatever form matter took in the distant, billions-of-years-ago past makes no difference, especially if you're trying to prove the existence of your ghostly perverted god in the clouds.

 

He's been much, much too busy worrying about where people put their dicks to actually demonstrate his existence in any kind of incontrovertible way.

 

That, moron, is why science and reason beat religion every time. There has never been a single thing claimed by religion that could not ALSO be proven to be a purely naturalistic phenomenon.

 

There has also NEVER been anything that has been claimed about a god that could be verified in a controlled scenario, over against what CAN be proven by scientific method in the same controlled environments.

 

You came in here making generalizations and acting superior... typical evangelical fuck-head.

 

Go away unless you want me to dismantle your religion piece by piece in front of everyone who reads this site. You have no idea who you're fucking with here.

 

By the way, asshole; snakes don't talk, and never have. Your religion is founded upon the idea of sin that was inherited by mankind because two people listened to a TALKING SNAKE.

 

Your whole premise is based upon a fairy-tale. You're either a child or a fucking retard. Nobody else who's sane believes fairy-tales are real.

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Thank you,for your kind remarks,i respect your opinion.

Me and you will get on together,no probs.

Let me tell you,We can tussle all day about God.

What about testimony,personal testimony? please give me your opinion,dont end our discussion please,vent all your fury,please feel free...............Becauce jesus loves you,and i understand your anger,but i also have lots for you!!!

Also explain the great minds of bygone and modern day believers

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Oh yes by the way,i hope you dont get offended and blank me,i do respect your opinion,and remember you will prove the bible right if you become offended

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14 minutes ago, Jon said:

Thank you,for your kind remarks,i respect your opinion.

Me and you will get on together,no probs.

Let me tell you,We can tussle all day about God.

What about testimony,personal testimony? please give me your opinion,dont end our discussion please,vent all your fury,please feel free...............Becauce jesus loves you,and i understand your anger,but i also have lots for you!!!

Also explain the great minds of bygone and modern day believers

You have asked many questions and sought others' opinions in the numerous threads you have started.  Many members have responded.

 

I have a question for you:

 

Why are you here?

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The same reason your here

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4 minutes ago, Jon said:

The same reason your here

You're here to support former believers through the painful and often brutal process of deconversion?  That's weird... why would a christian do that?

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You understand my anger?

 

Your rather arrogant in your ignorance.

This is yet another post of yours so far with multiple assumption in it.

 

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27 minutes ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

You're here to support former believers through the painful and often brutal process of deconversion?  That's weird... why would a christian do that?

Yep that's the main reason I'm here too. Help people deconvert and reprogram after sometimes years of brainwashing. 

That and there are at least 14 nice people here who I'd buy a drink (you know who you are... maybe)

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1 hour ago, Jon said:

The same reason your here

 

You don't know why I am on this forum.  Therefore you cannot honestly conclude you are on this forum for the same reason(s) that I am here.

 

Try again.  Here's the question:

 

Why are you here?

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2 hours ago, Jon said:

i do respect your opinion,and remember you will prove the bible right if you become offended

 

Come again?

 

Let me guess, someone shreds you, you take that as offense and promptly quote a new testament verse about people taking offense at the word, and that somehow proves the bible? Well it would if your bar for proof is that low.

 

You know there are Christians one can respect, unfortunately you have come into the lions den with no humility, and full of arrogance.

 

You haven't even raised a decent argument. The first post I read of yours was a strawman.

 

Remember we are EX-CHRISTIANS. We know the bible, some better than you do. We have heard all generic answers and responses from Christians - they have all been answered and laid to rest a thousand times. Unless you can construct a proper argument you are not going to get any response other than a shredding.

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Oooh,,, BURNED me.

 

If I become offended and/or block you, I "prove the bible right".

 

Well, your misspellings, bad punctuation and grammatical failures all prove to me that fundamentalists are less practically intelligent than other people. I base that on LOTS of real-life experience

and the FACTS presented in calculated, researched polls.

 

I asked before... why the fuck are you here to prove the validity of YOUR version of YOUR brand of YOUR Christianity?

 

Here's a link to churches in Greater Manchester, by district, also by denomination or affiliation:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_churches_in_Greater_Manchester

 

Now, then... which "Jesus" of the ones represented in that list is the one you say "loves me"?

 

...please vent all your fury...

 

I am going to respect the presumed wishes of the mods here, as well as the bounds of propriety... all I will say in response to the above is that you'd better thank your god that we're not in closer proximity. You (or anyone else) volunteering to be the target of my "venting my fury" would be the absolutely LAST thing you would want.

 

I have spent time in rejected isolation while literally on my deathbed - the so-called Christians who were my "brethren" were nowhere to be found. I have seen religious bullshit tear my family to pieces and cause my wife and I both to teeter on the edge of mental, emotional and psychological disaster.

 

I said before and I say again - you can't even justify your own personal spin on the so-called Christian story as opposed to the other versions spouted by equally-deceived assholes, and that's just in your own little part of the world.

 

Don't come in here and ask me to "please feel free" to do anything, motherfucker. I do what the fuck I please, online or in "real life", and you are NOT in charge here.

 

Now, either get to establishing why we should even believe that you represent a valid Christianity at all, and THEN, MAYBE, we can talk about how a theistic, Intelligent-Design model best explains the origins of all that we see.

 

You're not even capable of presenting a single Christology, a single ecclesiology, a single pneumatology - yet you want us to believe that YOUR skewed little perversion of some Bronze-Age fairy-tales is the acceptable ground upon which a theistic creation AND a mono-theistic worldview should stand?

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

 

Get the literal fuck out of here.

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I toy with idiots like you - I speak gutter-trash, I talk shit about your mamas... all because the best you're going to bring me is some "See Spot Run", Sunday-School-101 "theology".

 

I've studied some of the Buddhist and Hindu writings that WELL pre-date Christianity and CLEARLY influence the idea of spiritual union with a divinity rather than constant ceremonial slaughterings and rituals, i.e. the "Old Testament" idea of generations of servitude in order to constantly placate a Judge-God.

 

Have you ever read anything remotely NON-Christian in order to see any merits in the work on its own? My money is on NO.

 

I've studied Orthodox Judaism - got involved with it to the point that other Christians who met me assumed I was a Jew myself (I am not). I walked in their communities, studied their customs.

 

Have you embraced anything that wasn't vetted by the group-think moderators of your little Christian clique? Again, very likely not, or if you have, you don't admit it to the bunch.

 

The great minds within Christianity? One of the foremost evangelical leaders of the 20th century was the president of the seminary I attended. I have listened to some of the most famous Protestant writer/pastor/teachers in the modern world - and that from 50 yards away.

 

See? You don't know anything about me, and I'm not even anywhere near the smartest, most erudite person on here.

 

I fuck around with assholes like you because I don't need to do the heavy lifting around here.

 

Now, again - snakes don't talk, Mr. Aquinas, Jr. You want to talk about WHY everything is and HOW it came to be, and you're going to preface your arguments with a belief in naked people talking to snakes, followed in a few short generations by a desert nomad building a magic boat with all the animals in it. ALL the animals.

 

Your grade-school "double-dare-you" challenges are beneath me. Quit addressing me in this or any other thread unless and until you have something of substance that you want to debate in earnest.

 

Mods, take note: I'm waiting for a formal invitation to a debate with this clod.

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L B please give me the benefit of the doubt.

I do respect your opinions,i suppose i struggle with the faith,but i wanttobr convinced not the other way round.

I suppose i rely on subjective experience.

How long was you a christian for? if you dont mind me asking.

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18 minutes ago, Jon said:

L B please give me the benefit of the doubt.

I do respect your opinions,i suppose i struggle with the faith,but i wanttobr convinced not the other way round.

I suppose i rely on subjective experience.

How long was you a christian for? if you dont mind me asking.

If I were you I'd stop right now. 

If you're struggling with your faith and don't want to deconvert, I'd forget every doubt and stop debating. And do NOT research. That's a sure way for an open minded person to deconvert. 

 

Really. If you're stress testing your beliefs, you may end up here permanently like many of us who went searching for better answers. 

 

I found answers and it changed me. 

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On 3/25/2017 at 3:56 PM, Jon said:

If you athiests dont believe in God ,hiw did the universe cone into being?

 

I would ask you to kindly leave the proselytizing alone for a minute and just think about the answer that has already been given to you.

 

Neither you nor anyone else in this world knows exactly the answer to the question of origins. 

 

Is the above statement wrong? And if so, can you show me what's wrong with the assertion?

 

Thanks 

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3 hours ago, Jon said:

...

I suppose I struggle with the faith, but I want to be convinced [of the faith], not the other way around.

...

(I fixed your grammar and syntax in an effort to make your sentence legible.)

 

Why would you come to an Ex-Christian website if what you want to do is be convinced of your religious faith?

 

That seems quite silly to me.  Quite silly.

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@sdelsolray God works in mysterious ways my brother :D

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Quote

I suppose I struggle with the faith, but I want to be convinced [of the faith], not the other way around.

You should seek only to find what is actually true, not look for excuses to believe what you want to be true.

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