Gods law

[Jon]

In romans 7 it says the law came and sin taking opportunity;sprang to life.

If i remained a non christian i wouldnt be subject to this?

Has becoming a christian put me under a law/force thats way to big for me? afterall the law came and sin woke up in me.

would people be better off ignorant,than enter an arena of moral conduct,becauce ,for me anyway when i break the law i fall into condemnation,and afterall it was the law which activated sin in my members.

So we believe;wake up the monster/sin within then live in its powerful grip?

[Jeff]

Odin never said any such thing. 

Your text was not written by who you think wrote it. 

Sin... ?

 

So many assumptions in your post. 

[Jon]

what are you talking about?

[TheRedneckProfessor]

Does reading Harry Potter automatically put us under the authority of the Ministry of Magic?  Does a casual knowledge of Tolkien put us under the jurisdiction of Sauron's watchful eye?  The "law" does not make us subject to "sin".  The "law" was written with social, and political, agendas which were relevant at the time.  Prescribing "laws" in response to "sin" is much like adding allergens to anti-histamines.  The cure conveniently contributes to the cause; ensuring that the recipient will continue use.  Whatever behavior the law-giver feels in inappropriate or undesirable can be condemned as "sin".  In truth, "sin" is no more real than the "law".  Both are merely means to gain power over others.

[Jeff]

3 hours ago, Jon said:

what are you talking about?

Here is a quiz. 

Find how many assumptions you made in your OP and then I might discuss. 

[Jon]

why wont you just answer my question about romans 7 ,instead of avoiding it and driving round the houses?

[Jeff]

31 minutes ago, Jon said:

why wont you just answer my question about romans 7 ,instead of avoiding it and driving round the houses?

Ok I'll help you on this. 

You assume that Romans 7 actually has any meaning. 

You assume it's the word of a god. 

You assume that there actually is a thing called sin and that there is some reason to not do this sin thing. I do agree that some things the Bible calls a sin should not be done, but many things it calls sin I would gladly do, and I bet you do too. 

 

Bible verses mean nothing to me because I don't believe there is anything special about it.  I also do not believe the Koran. 

I also do not believe the Book of Mormon. 

[Geezer]

The concept of sin only exists within the framework of the church. The concept of sin does not exist in all religions. It is a major component of Christianity & Islam though. 

 

Sin is touted as breaking God's law, but in reality it's breaking Church law. What is & is not the law of God varies from group to group. I'm not a believer so it is not possible for me to sin because I'm not a member of any church. I can, however, be guilty of breaking laws established by society. And society isn't big on forgiveness but they seem to like the idea of punishing law breakers. 

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

Can't really say anything the others haven't. When  you come to terms with the bible and realise that it was not God inspired, then the moral compass of the biblical law just becomes the moral opinions of the men that wrote, rewrote, and edited the bible to reflect their own and the beliefs of whatever king or religious ideology was in power at the time. 

     For you as a believer, you are held under what you believe to be sin according to your churches Interpretation. For instance most evangelical churches believe that it is a sin to drink alcohol. However in the bible Jesus turns water into wine as his first miracle. Someone at the party praised him for saving the best wine for last. Most churches will say that the wine Jesus made wasnt alcoholic which i have to call BS on. Now having been in the world again and having drank a fair share of alcohol I realised that no person at the party being well drunk would have praised Jesus for making a beer run and bringing back nonalcoholic beer. No if anything it was just as potent as the other wine and tasted better. So by the standards of today's evangelical churches Jesus would have sinned by performing his first miracle. But that's not possible so let's just ignore that detail right?

      "Sin" didn't spring on anyone. The facts are that a person through religious indoctrination is convinced that what they have done in life is considered sin and a feeling of guilt is then passed upon them because they also now believe that it is sin. 

     Here is another example. In most churches homosexuality is sin. But tell me this. In absence of biblical standards of moral law would it be sin? No it wouldn't. Some churches would consider it a sin for a woman to preach. Absent that Interpretation would it be sin? No. I was in a church where it was believed it was a sin for women to cut their hair. But in other churches it wasn't an issue. 

     So what do you define as sin? It is always someone's opinion on right and wrong that are being enforced. In reality there is no such thing as sin. In my opinion whatever you do as long as you aren't hurting or affecting anyone else in a negative way, then your good to go. The United states constitution states that everyone has the right to the pursuit of happiness and we are all equal. As long as you abide the by the laws set forth and agreed upon In this country then do whatever you want because guess what. There is no hell and there is no sin to send you there. Just live your life and be happy.

 

Hope this helps,

                   Dark Bishop

[mwc]

     Yes.  We're all bound by it.  You've doomed us all by posting this here.

 

     Why didn't you post the verse that simply said that all humanity was good to go with no strings attached with no other special requirements or silly beliefs required?  You know the one: "For god so loved the world that he simply forgave everyone forever, for everything, always and never asked for nor wanted, much less required, anything in return.  The End."

 

     Hmm...I just looked...I guess it's not in there.  Never mind.  What's odd is people like your version of god better than mine and they're equally fictional.

 

          mwc

 

[L.B.]

mmmm... ham and cheese sandwiches.

 

Fuck the laws of your favorite Bronze-Age nomads and their war deity.

[possibility]

It seems to me that you are still more comfortable with the bible than with people making you feel stupid, so I will try to a more understanding approach, if everyone else will indulge me.

 

First of all, you should be able to work out by examining evidence in your life that there are no supernatural forces attached to Christianity that bind you to words in a book, or to promises you might have made from lack of knowledge. So relax about that.

 

I have to ask firstly what is 'the law' from your perspective, and also what is 'sin'?

 

For me, the concept of 'sin' in the bible refers to our tendency to pass judgement. In Genesis, what banished humanity from Eden was not disobeying God or even being naked, even though I'm sure that's what many preachers might imply. Our mistake, our Original Sin, as it were, was actually Judgement. It was eating from the tree that gave us the 'knowledge of good and evil'. If you can imagine the problem of giving a 2yr old the right to decide what's right and what's wrong, then you have some idea of what it would have been like to observe humanity in these initial stages of civilisation. "Who told you that you were naked?" No one did - we just decided, out of the blue, that being naked is 'wrong'. And from that unfounded judgement of ours comes shame, fear, blame, anger, pain, hatred, oppression and violence. If there is no God as a man in the sky, then these results came from our own actions - not from some punishment handed down. You only have to examine history to see that pretty much every event we regret as humanity, from wars and slavery to the holocaust or Hiroshima bombing, can be put down to acting on judgements with insufficient or incorrect knowledge and a lack of understanding. That is what I think sin is.

 

So, no, I don't think people would be better off ignorant - ever.

 

Good luck with your search for truth.

[Geezer]

I determined a long time ago that "sin" is breaking the laws, rules, commands, or traditions of the church or whatever religious group a believer affiliates with.  God made no laws, humans made those laws, rules, & commands in the name of God so gullible humans would fear & obey them believing they would be condemned to an imaginary place called Hell if they didn't. 

 

Religions are cults & indoctrinate their gullible adherents into believing the nonsense they peddle under fear of eternal punishment I'd they don't. What a racket. 

[Lucy]

That chapter appears to be an essay saying that learning the law somehow increases your inclination to break the law. The passage is also referring to sin as an active agent rather than a concept or transgression, as though sin is possessing people and trying to force them to break the law. That's sort of interesting. "Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it." Apparently, learning the laws causes bad things to happen to your mind. Better not read the bible then.

[possibility]

I would argue that the chapter is saying: being told what not to do will increase your inclination to do it. It sounds like the old 'don't think about an elephant' concept. 

I think the author is trying to make a distinction between the 'I' of our consciousness or spirit, and the 'me' of the body, "that is, in my flesh". To my mind, this refers again to our ability to make conscious choices that are not base on our inherited evolutionary instinct, but that's another discussion. The New Testament repeatedly asks us to recognise this spirit/flesh distinction, and to give preference to choices of consciousness and spirit. But in this chapter it suggests that it's often easier to do what the law says not to do, what we would readily tell others is 'wrong', than to consciously make a better choice and follow through with it.

The chapter acknowledges that the Ten Commandments, while being sufficient for humanity's level of development at the time, actually doesn't stop us from doing what it says not to do. In truth, it isn't laws (any laws, religious or not) that stop us from doing the wrong thing, but fear. So if we aren't afraid of the consequences, then what's to stop us from breaking the law? Because clearly knowing or even believing that it's wrong isn't enough.