Thoughts

[Jon]

How real are our thoughts?

Do they come from our brain chemicals? or somewhere else?

[bornagainathiest]

You've asked us many questions since you joined this forum, Jon.

 

In my estimation it's now time for you to answer some.

 

How real are our thoughts?

 

Do they come from our brain chemicals?

 

or somewhere else?

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

[Jon]

Yes they are real (when we own them)

No its not brain chemicals (why do we do,what we dont want to do?) Romans chapter 7

They (in my opinion) come from satanic forces in the spirit realm!!

Remember dear friends in the lions den:satans biggest trick is to convince the world (not believers) that he is not real or dosn't exist

[bornagainathiest]

11 minutes ago, Jon said:

Yes they are real (when we own them)

No its not brain chemicals (why do we do,what we dont want to do?) Romans chapter 7

They (in my opinion) come from satanic forces in the spirit realm!!

Remember dear friends in the lions den:satans biggest trick is to convince the world (not believers) that he is not real or dosn't exist

 

They are real?   How do you know this?  

Telling me what the Bible says wouldn't be telling me HOW you know this, Jon.  You'd be telling me what you believe, because it's in the Bible.  But I'm asking a different question altogether.   I'm not asking you what you believe by faith - I'm asking you what you know.  That is, what you have seen and experienced and worked out for yourself.  Please tell me (without referring to the Bible) how you know that your thoughts are real.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

 

[Jon]

Are your senses real:sight,smell,taste,etc

In other words;whatever animates you is real.

If a thought influences you,by definition its real.

I dont need proof,look at the logical evidence

[florduh]

Quote

They (in my opinion) come from satanic forces in the spirit realm!!

Why would you hold that opinion? Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion, but is there any basis for it? If you say "the Bible said so" then there can be no meaningful discussion anymore than if I said "I believe Xenu is real because Tom Cruise said so."

[BroTom]

28 minutes ago, Jon said:

Are your senses real:sight,smell,taste,etc

In other words;whatever animates you is real.

If a thought influences you,by definition its real.

I dont need proof,look at the logical evidence

Hi Jon

I love thinking about this kind of stuff.  Haven't really got around to studying it yet, so I can only speak from my own intuition.  Suppose you and I had a conversation and I learned something or changed my mind, say.  I would be inclined to say that the only thing that transmitted between us was the sound waves.  By my mental processing, I reconstructed your idea inside my head and I got your message.  Does this line up with you, or do you think that ideas themselves can be transmitted?

Tom

[Vigile]

Watch an Alzheimer's patient over time and you'll have your answer. When the brain is dead, you're dead. Sorry. 

[midniterider]

4 hours ago, Jon said:

How real are our thoughts?

Do they come from our brain chemicals? or somewhere else?

 

How real are our thoughts? Please elaborate on the question.

 

Do thoughts come from brain chemicals? Very good question. Nobody seems to know the mechanism of thought or consciousness. Some are positive that thoughts are just electricity and brain chemicals. Some think we have a soul that runs the body. I don't think brain chemicals and electricity are really the seat of consciousness. I don't think chemicals and electricity can think. But hey, maybe they can. 

[RogueScholar]

2 hours ago, Jon said:

Yes they are real (when we own them)

No its not brain chemicals (why do we do,what we dont want to do?) Romans chapter 7

They (in my opinion) come from satanic forces in the spirit realm!!

Remember dear friends in the lions den:satans biggest trick is to convince the world (not believers) that he is not real or dosn't exist

 

Jon, what evidence do you have for these claims? I've already replied to a similar question in another thread. You posit that thoughts and voices come from some "spirit realm." However, we can take people who are hallucinating and psychotic and give them medications that block serotonin and dopamine receptors. In many of these folks, these hallucinations are able to be controlled by said medications. 

 

A couple times a year I take large doses of a plant that contains mescaline. I've had incredibly hallucinatory experiences; however, once the mescaline is metabolised and eliminated, these experiences resolve. This sort of experience is common and is being studied in great detail. We even have great fMRI studies of how these substances are associated with neurophysiological changes. 

 

However, there's no evidence pointing toward the existence of the devil and his spirit realm. The devil doesn't need to convince me he doesn't exist as there's not even enough evidence to convince me that he does exist. 

[midniterider]

8 hours ago, Jon said:

Yes they are real (when we own them)

No its not brain chemicals (why do we do,what we dont want to do?) Romans chapter 7

They (in my opinion) come from satanic forces in the spirit realm!!

Remember dear friends in the lions den:satans biggest trick is to convince the world (not believers) that he is not real or dosn't exist

 

I need clarification. I go to work even though I don't want to. Is that Satan telling me to? I pay taxes but I don't want to. Taxes are definitely Satan (lol). I used to go to church when I didn't really want to. Was that Satan telling me to go to church?

 

Why do Christians worry about satanic forces in the spirit realm? Is Satan more powerful than Jesus? Does Jesus not protect his children? I guess Jesus can't handle it. Why do you worship this God that is supposed to take care of you if he doesn't squash satanic forces? Seems like a waste of time. As a Christian I noticed other Christians concerned about Satan. It was silly.

 

"Satan's greatest trick is to convince us that he is not real"....Does that quote have scriptural basis? Or just a quote from man.

 

So Satan has a good reason to hide from us. Why does the all powerful God who supposedly loves us and wants a personal relationship with us hide from us?

 

How effective is someone who is busy hiding from us?

[Geezer]

I'm with Jon. The Devil made me do it. It's them damn Satanic voices that scream in my head day & night. And when I ask Jesus for help He just smiles & shrugs his shoulders.  It's almost like He just doesn't care. 

[bornagainathiest]

1 hour ago, Jon said:

Are your senses real:sight,smell,taste,etc

In other words;whatever animates you is real.

If a thought influences you,by definition its real.

I dont need proof,look at the logical evidence

 

So, when it comes to answering your own questions about thoughts Jon, you'd be logical and you'd go with what your senses tell you?

 

Then please do so.  

 

How real are our thoughts?

 

Do they come from our brain chemicals?

 

Or somewhere else?

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

[midniterider]

4 hours ago, Jon said:

Are your senses real:sight,smell,taste,etc

In other words;whatever animates you is real.

If a thought influences you,by definition its real.

I dont need proof,look at the logical evidence

 

Sponge Bob influences me. Real? Or no?

 

If your Jesus doesn't influence me enough to worship him, is he real?

[disillusioned]

6 hours ago, Jon said:

Yes they are real (when we own them)

No its not brain chemicals (why do we do,what we dont want to do?) Romans chapter 7

They (in my opinion) come from satanic forces in the spirit realm!!

Remember dear friends in the lions den:satans biggest trick is to convince the world (not believers) that he is not real or dosn't exist

K.

[Astreja]

Jon, our thoughts are completely dependent on our brains.  If something happens to that brain, thoughts simply cease.  There is no evidence that thoughts can exist apart from the brain, which is dependent on the body for its survival.

 

Body dies → brain dies → thought ceases → all memory, belief and sense of identity are lost.

 

And there isn't a prayer in the universe that can save you when this occurs.  You are irrevocably doomed by your own humanity to become an Ex-Christian at the moment of your eventual death, in the same sense of Monty Python's "Dead Parrot" sketch.

[Jeff]

7 hours ago, Jon said:

...They (in my opinion) come from satanic forces in the spirit realm...

 

Can you you please give some biblical reference for why you have this opinion?  I don't know why you think an evil being is able to interact directly with your brain.

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

36 minutes ago, disillusioned said:

K.

What does potassium have to do with this clown's inane ramblings?

[Astreja]

1 hour ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

What does potassium have to do with this clown's inane ramblings?

 

Iodine Carbon Tungsten Hydrogen Astatine Uranium did there.

[L.B.]

Here's the thing, @Jon:

 

We DON'T do what we don't want, and we DO the things we DO want.

 

Romans 7 is full of shit.

 

The conflict occurs because your natural, biological desires, combined with your cultural conditioning, make you prefer certain sights, tastes, smells, sensations, etc over others.

 

Your religious brainwashing tells you that those things (or certain of those things) are now "wrong" and "sinful".

 

Do you know what the difference is between the non-Christian who masturbates to porn and the Christian who does the same? Imputed shame from "leaders", and probably hypocrisy, because most of you won't admit you've done it before and will do it again.

 

Otherwise, there is NO difference between the people in the above example except maybe their viewing material of choice and possibly their onanistic method.

 

I've got news for you, Jon; NOBODY does what they TRULY don't want to do. Nobody. We might piss and moan about our jobs or our health or whatever, but ultimately if we DON'T want to do something, we quit it. Otherwise, there needs be a powerful external motivator for our behaviors.

 

And don't start in with "where there is no law, there is no sin, because sin is the power of the law" and all that bullshit.

 

You'd be better off understanding it this way: "where there are no religious rules, there is no power of guilt and threat of punishment, because the potential for shame and disfellowshipping are the power of the rules."

 

By the way, there's also no such thing as Satan, so his "biggest trick" is no more effective than Barney the toy dino magically transforming into an 8-foot-tall purple douche-nozzle.

[midniterider]

Christianity's biggest trick: Brainwashing people into believing ludicrous shit.

[Castiel233]

On 09/04/2017 at 7:59 PM, midniterider said:

 

How real are our thoughts? Please elaborate on the question.

 

 Some think we have a soul that runs the body. I don't think brain chemicals and electricity are really the seat of consciousness. I don't think chemicals and electricity can think. But hey, maybe they can. 

 Animals seem to think and recall and I'm confident they do not have souls. 

 

 

[TheRedneckProfessor]

3 hours ago, Garry said:

 Animals seem to think and recall and I'm confident they do not have souls. 

 

 

I had a cat once who definitely did not have a soul.  I've never seen such an evil, wretched beast in all my days; and I grew up on a farm.

[bornagainathiest]

On 4/9/2017 at 6:52 PM, Jon said:

Are your senses real:sight,smell,taste,etc

In other words;whatever animates you is real.

If a thought influences you,by definition its real.

I dont need proof,look at the logical evidence

 

Jon,

 

The disciple Thomas used logic and his senses in this passage from the Bible.

 

John 20 : 24 - 29

 

²⁴ Now Thomas (also known as Didymus), one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 

²⁵ So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”  But he said to them, “Unless I see the nail marks in his hands and put my finger where the nails were, and put my hand into his side, I will not believe.”

²⁶ A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!” 

²⁷ Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

²⁸ Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”

²⁹ Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed;blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

 

Also, Jesus himself told Philip (and the rest of the disciples) that they should believe the evidence of their senses.

 

John 14 : 11

 

¹¹ Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.

 

So, please use logic and the evidence of your senses to answer your three questions.

 

How real are our thoughts?

 

Do they come from our brain chemicals?

 

Or somewhere else?

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

[Jon]

12 hours ago, Garry said:

 Animals seem to think and recall and I'm confident they do not have souls. 

 

 

have you never heard of instinct?

Animals will appear to think,but its instinct.

The bible tells us we are the HEAD not the tail.The tail is the wagging bit,moved on emotion and animal instinct,but we are the HEAD (mind)-soul.......We think have choices etc God bestows great honor and responsibility on us humans,becauce we DO possess a soul,and indeed we do think??