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Goodbye Jesus

Thoughts


Jon

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37 minutes ago, Jon said:

have you never heard of instinct?

Animals will appear to think,but its instinct.

The bible tells us we are the HEAD not the tail.The tail is the wagging bit,moved on emotion and animal instinct,but we are the HEAD (mind)-soul.......We think have choices etc God bestows great honor and responsibility on us humans,becauce we DO possess a soul,and indeed we do think??

 

So thoughts come from satanic forces in the spirit realm, but they are also a great honour bestowed upon us by God.

 

That makes sense.

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46 minutes ago, Jon said:

Animals will appear to think,but its instinct.

 

And you have conclusive proof of this how?

 

I interact with my dog every day, and she certainly thinks at times. She remembers where she put her favorite toy, and she knows how to get my to throw a ball for her. She also will operated on pure instict as well - as do humans.

 

Research indicates that animals do indeed think and feel, in fact we simply have high abilities in these areas. This comes at a cost - we can't see as well, we can't hear or smell as well as many animals, we can run as fast, we are not as strong per body weight as many animals. We don't work as well together as some animals.

 

 

Quote

 

we think we have choices.... becauce we DO possess a soul,and indeed we do think??

 

Citation for evidence of a soul please. No evidence has been found of humans having any other manifestation that is self aware other than the brain.

 

We can agree that we are aware of ourselves, but we also may not exist.

 

Regarding choice, yes we do have choices, but under your Christian world view you don't have any choice. God has preordained everything - he has a plan and has seen the beginning to the end and no choice you can ever make can affect that plan. In fact every 'choice' you do make is according to that plan. You are like a computer program simply carrying out a command set under the christian world view.

 

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1 hour ago, Jon said:

have you never heard of instinct?

Animals will appear to think,but its instinct.

The bible tells us we are the HEAD not the tail.The tail is the wagging bit,moved on emotion and animal instinct,but we are the HEAD (mind)-soul.......We think have choices etc God bestows great honor and responsibility on us humans,becauce we DO possess a soul,and indeed we do think??

 

Jon,

 

Once you've answered your own questions, using logic and the evidence of your senses...

 

How real are our thoughts?

Do they come from our brain chemicals?

Or somewhere else?

 

...would please also use logic and evidence to answer this question.

 

Do we humans possess a soul?

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

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Our self awareness also comes with a heavy price: vis a vis, our awareness of the eventual non-existence of our selves via death.  As we perceive the randomness of our environment, the realization that death could happen at any moment, and be brutal, horrific, and painful, should leaves us curled up in fetal position constantly shitting ourselves in fear.

 

Surprizingly, it doesn't.  Our brains have adapted means of dealing with the stress of constantly facing our own destruction, one of which is the suspension of disbelief.  Our brains trick us into believing in things that aren't "true", in order to distract us from accepting things that are.

 

Hence the advent and evolution of religion.  It is much easier to not fear death, if one believes in an afterlife.  It is easier to face the eventual demise of this mortal coil, if one accepts the premise of an immortal, everlasting soul.

 

Are these thoughts "real"?  They certainly have a real and profound effect on us.  Are they "true"?...

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1 hour ago, disillusioned said:

 

So thoughts come from satanic forces in the spirit realm, but they are also a great honour bestowed upon us by God.

 

That makes sense.

You twist what i say.

Do you get thoughts contrary to you?

Are all thoughts your own? if so prove it?

The bible says Gos is spirit,we have an enemy-your right again professor its satan

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31 minutes ago, Jon said:

You twist what i say.

Do you get thoughts contrary to you?

Are all thoughts your own? if so prove it?

The bible says Gos is spirit,we have an enemy-your right again professor its satan

Another example of the suspension of disbelief.  It is easier to accept that bad things happen, if one accepts that there is 1) a spirit realm which is separate from, but has influence over, the physical realm, and 2) there is an evil presence within the spiritual realm intent upon causing mayhem in the physical realm.

 

In actual fact, "bad" things happen because things happen, period.  At all times and in all places, things happen.  The laws of averages and probability dictate, or rather, explain, that some of these things are "bad" and others are "good".  This isn't really an accurate assessment; but sufficient for your current level of understanding.  In essence, because so many things are happening, it is a necessity of statistics that some things are "bad" and others are "good".  This is due, again, to the randomness of our environment, as well as the law of causality.

 

"Bad" things, which could range from negative thoughts appearing in your mind to the sexual enslavement of 10-year-old kids, happen because of the imperfections of our species and our environment.  Your brain is not perfect; no one's is.  The "evil" we perceive is nothing more than an expression of the imperfections of our brains and thought processes.  If you need to hide from this "truth" behind the idea of a "perfect" brain, such as the mind of christ, that is certainly understandable.  The world is, after all, a scary place.

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2 hours ago, Jon said:

have you never heard of instinct?

Animals will appear to think,but its instinct.

The bible tells us we are the HEAD not the tail.The tail is the wagging bit,moved on emotion and animal instinct,but we are the HEAD (mind)-soul.......We think have choices etc God bestows great honor and responsibility on us humans,becauce we DO possess a soul,and indeed we do think??

 

Gorillas can self identify. There goes your instinct argument. 

 

 

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53 minutes ago, bornagainathiest said:

 

Jon,

 

Once you've answered your own questions, using logic and the evidence of your senses...

 

How real are our thoughts?

Do they come from our brain chemicals?

Or somewhere else?

 

...would please also use logic and evidence to answer this question.

 

Do we humans possess a soul?

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

Jon,

 

You've asked further questions without answering the four that I've put to you.

 

Please use logic and the evidence of your senses to answer those four questions.

 

Thank you,

 

BAA.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Vigile said:

 

Gorillas can self identify. There goes your instinct argument. 

 

 

My budgie has a mirror in its cage,it looks and attacks the mirror.Are you going to tell me my budgie is a thinking creature?

Also you are wrongly dividing recognition and instinct.

Even computers recognize a bug.

Please,please lets stop denying the facts.

In certain situations animals act in a certain way.You could train a dog to meaow but on the arrival of a burglar he would bark,its nature.

Everyone on this site has a dig atmy spelling and grammar,lets stick to the points in question

 

 

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Born again athiest:for the last time I have answered your questions

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I don't know what a budgie is, but if you watch the video I posted you would learn that self identification is something only higher animal species can do; particularly, the great apes, of which we are members. Self identity is a form of self awareness, and yes, that's thought, not purely instinct, as perhaps one might see in an earth worm which instinctively seeks oxygen when the ground is saturated. 

 

You are not presenting facts, you're presenting supposition based on your own ignorance. It may fly in your circle, but it won't fly around here. 

Don't agree with me, provide evidence to dispute my evidence, which I posted here. 

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1 minute ago, Jon said:

Born again athiest:for the last time I have answered your questions

 

That's not strictly true, Jon.

Yes, in post # 3 you gave answers, but then in post # 4, I asked you how you knew your thoughts were real.  You replied with this...

 

Are your senses real:sight,smell,taste,etc

In other words;whatever animates you is real.

If a thought influences you,by definition its real.

I dont need proof,look at the logical evidence

 

I then responded with this...

 

So, when it comes to answering your own questions about thoughts Jon, you'd be logical and you'd go with what your senses tell you?

Then please do so.  

How real are our thoughts?

Do they come from our brain chemicals?

Or somewhere else?

Thanks,

BAA.

 

And this is where we are now.

I'm still waiting on you to use logic and the evidence of your senses to answer these questions.  If you can't or won't do that, please say so.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

 

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You are missing my question.

Truth and reality:what is actually happening,like things really are.

Let me explain another way 2+2=4.

I prove its real if its a reality,why is it these great people on the lions den,always ask for proof,proof,proof.

Even in a court of law it is BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT

If your thoughts animate you they are real:thats my proof,case closed.

what your asking me is mot logical,or even rational.Dont even bring brain chemicals into it,its absurd,i asked what the lions den thought about brain chemicals.

I think thoughts come from a persons soul:mind,will and emotions.

How can brain chemicals tell someone to walk into a pub and shoot all the customers?

Please answer my question.

You accuse me for not using logic well infact thats what i do use,also if we are the products of our thoughts we are beyond any help or hope

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29 minutes ago, bornagainathiest said:

 

That's not strictly true, Jon.

Yes, in post # 3 you gave answers, but then in post # 4, I asked you how you knew your thoughts were real.  You replied with this...

 

Are your senses real:sight,smell,taste,etc

In other words;whatever animates you is real.

If a thought influences you,by definition its real.

I dont need proof,look at the logical evidence

 

I then responded with this...

 

So, when it comes to answering your own questions about thoughts Jon, you'd be logical and you'd go with what your senses tell you?

Then please do so.  

How real are our thoughts?

Do they come from our brain chemicals?

Or somewhere else?

Thanks,

BAA.

 

And this is where we are now.

I'm still waiting on you to use logic and the evidence of your senses to answer these questions.  If you can't or won't do that, please say so.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

 

Also why have chimps stopped evolving?

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Jon,

 

Which of the following is not a brain chemical?

A. Dopamine

B.  GABA

C.  hydrogen sulfide

D.  Histamine

E.  All of the above are brain chemicals.

 

Please answer the question, even if you need to Google it.  Thanks.

 

Have a nice day,

The Prof.

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I never said "we dont have brain chemicals" i said "brain chemicals dont "give us thoughts.Massive difference,again you twist and slant my words.

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5 minutes ago, Jon said:

You are missing my question.

Truth and reality:what is actually happening,like things really are.

Let me explain another way 2+2=4.

I prove its real if its a reality,why is it these great people on the lions den,always ask for proof,proof,proof.

Even in a court of law it is BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT

If your thoughts animate you they are real:thats my proof,case closed.

what your asking me is mot logical,or even rational.Dont even bring brain chemicals into it,its absurd,i asked what the lions den thought about brain chemicals.

I think thoughts come from a persons soul:mind,will and emotions.

How can brain chemicals tell someone to walk into a pub and shoot all the customers?

Please answer my question.

You accuse me for not using logic well infact thats what i do use,also if we are the products of our thoughts we are beyond any help or hope

 

You didn't ask me a question, Jon.

I asked you to answer your own questions, using logic and the evidence of your senses.  

Please also note that I did not ask you for proof, I asked you for evidence. 

 

You say that what I'm asking you isn't logical or rational?

But since I'm asking you your own questions, are you now saying that your own questions aren't logical or rational?  

 

I have not accused you of not using logic.  That's a false accusation.

Instead, I've asked you to use logic to answer your own questions.  But now there's a problem.  

How can you be using logic to answer your own questions (as you claim in your last sentence) if your own questions aren't logical or rational?

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Jon said:

I never said "we dont have brain chemicals" i said "brain chemicals dont "give us thoughts.Massive difference,again you twist and slant my words.

No, I am not trying to twist your words, nor did I make any claim about what you did or did not say.  Rather, I am trying to ascertain how much you understand about brain chemicals in order to better help you see how brain chemicals affect what, how, and why we think.

 

Your reluctance to answer the question indicates that either you don't know the answer (which is okay), or that you'd prefer not to learn the answer (which is not okay).

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Try this one:

 

 

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:3:

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I gotta run now Jon, but I'll be back later.

 

Please remember, these are you own questions that I've asked you to answer.

 

If they aren't logical or rational, then you can't use logic to answer them.

 

And if they aren't logical or rational, then you can't expect us to use logic to answer them, either.

 

See you later.

 

BAA.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Jon said:

You twist what i say.

Do you get thoughts contrary to you?

Are all thoughts your own? if so prove it?

The bible says Gos is spirit,we have an enemy-your right again professor its satan

 

If we 'get' thoughts from God and thoughts from Satan how do we tell one from the other?

 

Pray about it? Couldn't the great deceiver make  you think that you are getting an answer from God when really Satan is answering you? Be afraid, be very afraid. :)

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5 hours ago, Jon said:

How can brain chemicals tell someone to walk into a pub and shoot all the customers?

 

 

This lady told prosecutors that she was Jesus Christ and mowed down a bunch of people in her car in Reno, Nv. Is/Was she really Jesus Christ?

http://murderpedia.org/female.F/f/ford-priscilla.htm

 

 

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