The bitter sweet red pill

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

In the matrix when Morpheus is ready to take Neo out of the matrix he offers him a choice. He holds two pills out front of him and says:

 

"You take the blue pill, the story ends. You wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes."

 

We here at EXCHRISTIAN have at some point for whatever reason taken that red pill. I've been trying to keep up with the posts of other new comers and all have mixed emotions. Some are elated, some are depressed, and some have gone as far as to wish they could return to the old life that they new.

 

That's the bitter sweet nature of the red pill. In the post by @skysoar15 in rants and replies skysoar points out that Athiests and agnostics seem to be a minority in the deep south, which is also where I am. It turns out to be a lonely life at times. Me personally I have to watch what I say around my wife as she is still a believer. Most of my family are believers especially my parents. So telling them isn't really an option. 

    When your whole life has been established around the belief that there is a bible God and all of a sudden that foundation is no longer there, it becomes difficult to keep a habitable balance with everyone around you. For lack of a better word, we have become the outcasts. As skysoar said. When we were Christians we thought the world was against us, that we were fighting the good fight of faith, and that we had a higher purpose. Now that higher purpose has turned out to have been mostly a waste of time. 

     I'm reminded of cypher on the matrix who made a deal with agent Smith so he could return to the matrix. Relating that to our own lives, it may seem at times like it would be so much better to just go back, to believe again. But the problem lies in the fact that the red pill completely changes your concept of reality.  Once you've come to the knowledge that we have here, that we were fed horse shit our whole lives, the rabbit hole does go deeper. You find out how the bible really came to be, you start seeing the lies for what they are, and there is no going back from that. I mean sure if I really wanted to I could play church and go through the motions. But to what end? It would just be pointless now. 

      But here's the sweet part of this. We know the truth. Or at least we know that the bible is not a true account of God as we were lead to believe.  We can look at life with knew eyes and arrange our priorities to what really does matter. And that is our personal happiness and that of those we love. I am a strong supporter of our Constitution in america. We have certain rights as Americans. And we have certain rights as humans. The bible takes some of those rights away and now now we are free. The bible is filled with restrictions, rules, and oppressive ideals. We no longer have to live under that. There is no "devil" making us do "bad" things. There is no "god" watching us, making sure we don't break his rules so he can happily throw us in the fire when he feels frisky and comes back. We are the masters of our own reality now. 

     This in my opinion is worth it. I didn't know that day when I was searching for proof to show my son that the bible was truthful, that I was actually about to pop the red pill into my mouth and swallow. I know my life will continue to change as a result of it. But I feel emboldened now. I feel a knew since of purpose arising. Far more so than I have the past few years while my faith was faltering. My family is first and foremost in my life now, not some imaginary diety. And I follow a close second. I have the rest of my life to live and I plan to make every moment I can of that life mean something to my family and myself. I'm going to make my mark on the people I love. Not Christs mark. I don't need to be someone else, I only need to be me. There won't be anyone at my funeral that says that I lived the life of Christ. But they will say that he was a good man, and I am better for having known him and have had him in my life. It is truly honorable when a man or woman makes that type of impression on those around them and I really hope I do. 

     I hope this little spill encourages other new comers to Ex-C. I know it may seem rough now but eventually the storm will pass. We are here to help in any way we can. Time heals all wounds, Even this one. You may not know it but you have now joined an elite group of individuals.  We have all been indoctrinated, brainwashed, and in some cases abused by religious theology. But we are overcomers. We have looked God and The Devil both in the face and called BULLSHIT!  You are EXCHRISTIAN.  Be proud!

 

sincerely,

       Dark Bishop

[Margee]

6 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

 

     I hope this little spill encourages other new comers to Ex-C. I know it may seem rough now but eventually the storm will pass. We are here to help in any way we can. Time heals all wounds, Even this one. You may not know it but you have now joined an elite group of individuals.  We have all been indoctrinated, brainwashed, and in some cases abused by religious theology. But we are overcomers. We have looked God and The Devil both in the face and called BULLSHIT!  You are EXCHRISTIAN.  Be proud!

 

sincerely,

       Dark Bishop

 

This little 'spill' encourages 'old-comers' also. The red pill is a bitter-sweet one for me. Thank you so much DB for taking the time out to write this beautiful message of hope. I needed this today.

 

(hug)

[BroTom]

Hi Dark Bishop

I love your post.  If nothing else you've convinced me to finally get around to checking out this Matrix movie.

My favorite part of your testimony is where your family is first and foremost now.  I never really bonded with my parents and that was a loss for all of us.  I decided at age 8 to protect myself from ever being connected with anyone.  My emerging conception of spirituality now has to do with being connected--to the Earth, humanity and the universe.  I mean connected in a completely natural way.  For my early-stage purpose, spirituality means whatever anyone wants it to mean for him/her/them/self.  One thing I'm doing is revisiting my old sensations of "the presence of the lord".  I'm trying to re-interpret them to fit into my new perspective.  Hope to have some of those re-interpretations to report in the future.  When I think deeply, I can still feel a presence.  Now I see the presence as myself teaching me that I was always connected.  And now that I'm starting to have half an ounce of awareness, I can foster and appreciate my pursuit of connection.  Yes, I know that connecting with people sometimes brings pain. Won't try to explain that, I just accept it as part of the deal for now.  That's as far as I've gotten.

Tom

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

41 minutes ago, Margee said:

 

This little 'spill' encourages 'old-comers' also. The red pill is a bitter-sweet one for me. Thank you so much DB for taking the time out to write this beautiful message of hope. I needed this today.

 

(hug)

No problem Margee,

     I'm glad I could return the favor ?. When I first came here, right after my deconversion, you all gave me so much encouragement and understanding during a time when I felt so alone. I'm just trying to do my part here to help others going through this journey. 

 

DB

[florduh]

Ignorance is bliss, but it's still ignorance. Some personalities seek comfort while other seek truth, though truth may not always be comfortable.

 

 

[MOHO]

10 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

We here at EXCHRISTIAN have at some point for whatever reason taken that red pill. I've been trying to keep up with the posts of other new comers and all have mixed emotions. Some are elated, some are depressed, and some have gone as far as to wish they could return to the old life that they new.

 

...Some of us are torn between encouraging loved ones to take the red pill or leaving them to their blissful ignorance.  We wonder if they will appreciate the freedom or wish they had never listened to us.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

44 minutes ago, MOHO said:

 

...Some of us are torn between encouraging loved ones to take the red pill or leaving them to their blissful ignorance.  We wonder if they will appreciate the freedom or wish they had never listened to us.

Me to. With my immediate family (wife and kids) I opted to encourage them to seek the truth. Everyone else I am leaving them to their blissful ignorance. My parents won't even open a Facebook account because their pastor has preached against it. So I don't think trying to encourage them would pan out very well. 

 

DB

[Geezer]

1 hour ago, MOHO said:

 

...Some of us are torn between encouraging loved ones to take the red pill or leaving them to their blissful ignorance.  We wonder if they will appreciate the freedom or wish they had never listened to us.

 

 

I can tolerate mainstream and liberal versions of Christianity. I  eventually was able to convince my wife the Bible isn't literally true or historically accurate. After that she left fundamentalism and checked out other churches. She eventually placed membership with a Methodist Church. She is much happier now and I can tolerate the Methodist version of Christianity. My point being when you know you can't win, then maybe it's time to consider compromising.

 

My wife is 74 and a cradle Christian. No way is she ever going to abandon Jesus, so I suggested maybe she could find a kinder, gentler, more compassionate Jesus if she looked around. I agreed if she would do that then I'd go to church with her, at least occasionally. I've perfected the art of sitting through a sermon and never hearing a word that's said, but my body is there and that is all that I promised.

[MOHO]

21 minutes ago, Geezer said:

 

 

I can tolerate mainstream and liberal versions of Christianity. I  eventually was able to convince my wife the Bible isn't literally true or historically accurate. After that she left fundamentalism and checked out other churches. She eventually placed membership with a Methodist Church. She is much happier now and I can tolerate the Methodist version of Christianity. My point being when you know you can't win, then maybe it's time to consider compromising.

 

My wife is 74 and a cradle Christian. No way is she ever going to abandon Jesus, so I suggested maybe she could find a kinder, gentler, more compassionate Jesus if she looked around. I agreed if she would do that then I'd go to church with her, at least occasionally. I've perfected the art of sitting through a sermon and never hearing a word that's said, but my body is there and that is all that I promised.

 

Hmmm....

 

My wife is 66 (I'm 55... my Dog she was beautiful when we were 46 and 36!!!) and, although not a cradle critty, she did convert as a young adult. Even though her buddy has been doing the fundy thing at the current church maybe your approach, Geezer,  would result in a tolerable outcome. Maybe others would follow.

[florduh]

Quote

My point being when you know you can't win, then maybe it's time to consider compromising.

 

I do understand that most normal people do not like conflict. Compromising on dinner or where to go on vacation makes sense.

 

What I don't understand how attending and supporting a religion you know to be false is a compromise. It's capitulation to manipulation.

 

I'm interested in amateur radio, and I go to events and meetings. My wife has no interest in such things and is not expected to participate. I get something out of it, she wouldn't. Should I suggest a compromise such as she only has to go to every other meeting with me? Perhaps twice a year? It's nonsense. My interests are not by default what rules her behavior, and I'm not the least offended that we don't share that interest. How is religion different? It's different only because we have been bred to accept religion as the default position and believers must be protected from the great offense of someone not sharing the belief. In a Christian/Non-Christian relationship the one who doesn't buy the religious narrative is seen as the trouble maker, the one at fault for any discord. Even the non-believers seem to believe this crap. I don't understand.

[MOHO]

13 minutes ago, florduh said:

 

I do understand that most normal people do not like conflict. Compromising on dinner or where to go on vacation makes sense.

 

What I don't understand how attending and supporting a religion you know to be false is a compromise. It's capitulation to manipulation.

 

I'm interested in amateur radio, and I go to events and meetings. My wife has no interest in such things and is not expected to participate. I get something out of it, she wouldn't. Should I suggest a compromise such as she only has to go to every other meeting with me? Perhaps twice a year? It's nonsense. My interests are not by default what rules her behavior, and I'm not the least offended that we don't share that interest. How is religion different? It's different only because we have been bred to accept religion as the default position and believers must be protected from the great offense of someone not sharing the belief. In a Christian/Non-Christian relationship the one who doesn't buy the religious narrative is seen as the trouble maker, the one at fault for any discord. Even the non-believers seem to believe this crap. I don't understand.

 

My idea of compromise, in this context,  is for Mrs. MOHO to find a a kinder, gentler, religion that SHE  can practice without my involvement. One that does not involve picketing Planned Parenthoods or leaving tracks all over the city park. I think both of our lives would be less stressful and, how knows, she might realize she can live without the religion at some point.

 

I do get your point though, Florduh, regarding participating in something that we know is fake and, possibly, even  harmful. I go along, very grudgingly, with some aspects of my wife's fundyism (or at least I don't protest strongly) because I live in a society where that's what I must do to not be a complete and utter outcast. That sucks frozen you-know-whats!!!!

 

I did, for a year, proclaim my atheism and refuse to go to church. There was so much tension that life was barely worth living. Your position on that, as you have stated, is that she does not love or care about the real MOHO and that living a lie is a lose-lose situation. I think, each and every day, about what life would be like if I just fessed up and bailed on the marriage. Mrs. MOHO has little tolerance for non-believers so I would lose here respect and the relationship would die.  Yes we are living a kind of lie but when it comes right down to it, it's really hard to leave. really, really hard.

 

[nutrichuckles93]

26 minutes ago, florduh said:

 

I'm interested in amateur radio, and I go to events and meetings. My wife has no interest in such things and is not expected to participate. I get something out of it, she wouldn't. Should I suggest a compromise such as she only has to go to every other meeting with me? Perhaps twice a year? It's nonsense. My interests are not by default what rules her behavior, and I'm not the least offended that we don't share that interest. How is religion different? It's different only because we have been bred to accept religion as the default position and believers must be protected from the great offense of someone not sharing the belief. In a Christian/Non-Christian relationship the one who doesn't buy the religious narrative is seen as the trouble maker, the one at fault for any discord.

I would agree to disagree with you on this. I'm sure I'm not telling you anything new, but this shit is real as fuck to them, especially for the evangelicals. It is their job to witness and preach so that none may burn. As inane as the doctrine is to you and I.

 

To some, compromise may be the only sane way of living without losing those they love. I can understand that. Thankfully, my wife isn't that far gone in it. She's given me the invitation to stop coming. I'm just doing it in my own time.

 

Again, I just disagree. For some, it's the only way to live peacefully. I see nothing wrong with that.

[MOHO]

21 minutes ago, nutrichuckles93 said:

I would agree to disagree with you on this. I'm sure I'm not telling you anything new, but this shit is real as fuck to them, especially for the evangelicals. It is their job to witness and preach so that none may burn. As inane as the doctrine is to you and I.

 

To some, compromise may be the only sane way of living without losing those they love. I can understand that. Thankfully, my wife isn't that far gone in it. She's given me the invitation to stop coming. I'm just doing it in my own time.

 

Again, I just disagree. For some, it's the only way to live peacefully. I see nothing wrong with that.

 

That's my position, Chuckles.

Perhaps its somewhat of a cowardly position. In the end there is nothing after this life and living it as happily and comfortably as one can, given the mess they made, may be the most efficient means to that end.

 

We can stick out necks out and challenge the status quo and win. Win BIG. For ourselves and society. We can also get our necks chopped off. Perhaps I will, again, soon, choose the latter path and stick it out next time.

[Geezer]

2 hours ago, florduh said:

 

I do understand that most normal people do not like conflict. Compromising on dinner or where to go on vacation makes sense.

 

What I don't understand how attending and supporting a religion you know to be false is a compromise. It's capitulation to manipulation.

 

I'm interested in amateur radio, and I go to events and meetings. My wife has no interest in such things and is not expected to participate. I get something out of it, she wouldn't. Should I suggest a compromise such as she only has to go to every other meeting with me? Perhaps twice a year? It's nonsense. My interests are not by default what rules her behavior, and I'm not the least offended that we don't share that interest. How is religion different? It's different only because we have been bred to accept religion as the default position and believers must be protected from the great offense of someone not sharing the belief. In a Christian/Non-Christian relationship the one who doesn't buy the religious narrative is seen as the trouble maker, the one at fault for any discord. Even the non-believers seem to believe this crap. I don't understand.

 

Context is crucial in my opinion florduh. My wife and I are in our 70's and our children are grown. Our children were raised in the Church of Christ but left soon after they graduated from high school. So, for us kids aren't an issue. They're adults and have made their decision about religion. In this case they have rejected it and so has my adult grandson.

 

You are free to define our arrangement as capitulation if you so chose but I don't. There is another element in this problem that must also be factored in. I love my wife and she loves me. We've been married for 51 years and I am flat out not going to war over this issue because it just isn't that important in our lives. She would be fine if I didn't got to church with her at all, and we tired that for a few months. She never said a word, but I decided on my own that I would attend church with her. Why, because I love her more than I hate religion. I'd say that is a small sacrifice for someone you love, but I don't think it actually qualifies as a sacrifice. I enjoy being with her and the Methodists aren't fundies. If she had not left fundamentalism then I know I couldn't go to church with her. I just could not tolerate that kind of religious environment, but I can deal with the Methodist. I can actually see why the Church of Christ doesn't believe Methodist are real Christians.

 

I've heard a lot of cussing among the older men hanging out in the hallways before services and I mean some pretty hard core cuss words too. If I'd ever heard words like that in the Church of Christ somebody might have called the police.  And drinking alcohol doesn't seem to be a problem with Methodists either, at least some of them.

 

All of that noted, I get your point. If we were many years younger, and our kids were still living at home, then this would be a much more difficult situation to deal with. But that isn't our situation, and at least she doesn't take the Bible literally any more and that is a pretty huge deal for her. She is well aware that I don't believe Jesus ever existed in the flesh and that Christianity is just one of many man made religions. She doesn't agree with me, but she is aware that is my position and why.

 

 

[florduh]

Geezer, you aren't lying and doing things against your will. That is the point, so be happy you don't feel compelled to hide as so many do.

[TheRedneckProfessor]

3 hours ago, MOHO said:

 

 leaving tracks all over the city park.

 

"Tracks" or "tracts"?  One implies a nice long walk, which you both might enjoy together; the other one does not imply that.

[MOHO]

15 hours ago, TheRedneckProfessor said:

"Tracks" or "tracts"?  One implies a nice long walk, which you both might enjoy together; the other one does not imply that.

 

Ding dang spell checker.

[DarkFlash]

In seeing how deluded many are, of course are they going to have that sense of dominance over the non-believer. Those moments in thought of casting out the 'devil's' remnants from within you supposedly, the constant spam of speaking in tongues but still kept on this plane that you're in need of Jesus or to even be saved. Before I stopped talking with my father about a week ago, while actually coming clean about my status of a non-believer, his reasoning behind why I came to such a conclusion was that I have yet to give my heart to him and with that alone is why this conversation is had. @florduh, when you think back to the things that you're told and those fears in terms of your way of living, your upbringing whilst questioning what you hear with time after your mindset expands, very much is it difficult to even break those chains their confined to and focusing on yourself, though they'd deem it as selfish, with time, will become your best move made because well. .you only live once. As DarkBishop mentioned on these restrictions and how absolutely ridiculous they are am I seeing for myself this odd influence I was under for years on end, and now am I able to really dissect their ways of thought toward us people who can't grasp what is clearly just another story tale. Growing up were we told to never attend the movies otherwise we'd come out possessed by spirits that were already in there. We weren't allowed to have tattoos, certain video games such as Mortal Kombat or even shows I couldn't play. I mean hell, I was lucky to even have a copy of a Ninja Turtles game just because of how possessed my family is.

 

These claims to save lives with a lengthy, but strong belief in this stuff have I also walked away with answers that whom they cling to and should they never awaken from their own trance is truly up to them. My mother this past Easter was so devoted to pictures being taken that she'd see on television and even kidnapped children that I was told to watch with her. .but with questions, like usual, were these claims of God challenged. As you further walk away from the deluded do you also see for yourself how trivial to them it can be to answer the most simplistic because you never know, even they'll wake up at some point.
 

[Shinobi]

[\[[]][

[TheRedneckProfessor]

6 hours ago, MOHO said:

 

Ding dang spell checker.

Hard to keep *track* of sometimes, no?

[Casey]

The red pill, eh? I don't remember swallowing one, but I do remember something remarkably like one being rammed down my throat ...

 

It seems a lifetime ago now, but I was once a 13 year old kid in a famous Christian Brothers boarding school where, despite their fame, they counted us like pearls and fed us like swine. They did worse things than these, quite a bit worse, but I'll get to some of those by and by. For now, suffice it to say you had to learn how to handle being scared a lot of the time. You either learned or went under. Two of us who had more guts than the rest though, or at least more style, contrived to get themselves kicked out, deliberately or by accident I know not. They procured a local gal who was "No better than she should have been," and there ensued, or so ran our envious whispers, quite a "Menage a trois."

 

Having pondered it some while, I've concluded that the place wanted us to be moulded into their product, which, so far as I can make out, was a cross between an ardent catholic believer and a sports mad workaholic. To this end they forced us to watch football and other sports teams while cheering them on with idiotic songs, one of which was based on the US Marine Corps Hymn. That was a little taste of the red pill. They had no idea how much this made me detest football, cricket and other sports. Oh for fuck's sake, if they had to parody marching songs, were there not a number of ex Nazi examples they could have used, such as "Unsere Fahne flattert uns voran", or perhaps, "Wenn Alle Untreu Werden?" Or even the Panzer Lied. The first was beloved of the Hitler Youth, the second of the SS, and the last was the song of the German tank arm.  Any of these would have better suited their politics or the patriotic bilge they liked to spew forth every now and then. They were also far catchier tunes, if you ask me.

 

Other examples of their hypocrisy were not too difficult to find. One of which was this: They'd have instantly thrown any of us out if they'd found him leafing through a stick book. That's a magazine whose contents are mainly devoted to female pulchritude, or in other words, pics of nekkid wimmen. Why are such mags called stick books? Best you don't ask ...

 

However, to the point. We had no curtains on our showers. Whereas the ladies whose images appear in um, stick books, must be of age, mentally competent, and are paid for their troubles we, who were underage and vulnerable males, could be used to provide a free gawk show for dirty old men, one of whom was what the law would call a sadistic paedophile, who later offed himself when his chickens were about to come home to roost. Good riddance! Oh by the way, he was mysteriously "transferred" when, every so often, his proclivities might have proved embarrassing to the establishment. He wasn't, however, sent anywhere he'd have had no contact with children. Other schools, less prestigious than mine, could have him as their problem. It was a classic case of NIMBY. Not in my backyard!
 

We weren't just a collective free gawk show, we also had other uses, such as literally being used as punching bags and moving targets. For many years I had nightmares about one punching bag incident, which took place within six feet of where I was sitting at the time. I guess shit happens, eh? More noise than the night Grandma caught her tits in the mangle. In case anyone's wondering, the great hero of that night's work wasn't transferred; he was only working off his aggression, wasn't he?

 

All of these things and more sprang from the christian concept of self loathing. One has to hate one's self, so as to become a new creature in Christ, or so say the fuckin' Christers and blue lighters. It's only a theory of mine, but I would think if you can be taught to hate yourself, it's not too difficult to then teach you to hate others, which is a useful thing if one's government should want to train soldiers. Just sayin' ...

 

ONE red pill? There's a whole mouthful of 'em, right there.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

Wow that's a rough childhood. And a fine example of how abusive Christian "power" can become if left unchecked.

 

However it doesn't sound like you've watched the matrix. The matrix is a futuristic story where everyone who is in the matrix are living a lie. The whole world is just a digital illusion. Kind of like when we were in the faith how we all believed a lie and based our lives around it thinking it was the truth when it was all a fairytale. 

 

The red pill which the main character (NEO) took made his consciousness leave the matrix and made him wake up in his real body. It wasn't until he took the red pill that he was able to be shown the truth. 

 

Like when we find a study that so refutes the bible that we can no longer believe the bibles teachings and begin to see the bible for what it is, a book of lies.

 

For us the red pill is whatever brings us to the conclusion that the bible is false. If you are referring to the actions of your abusers as to what made you believe the fairytale world of the bible was false then yes. Those were your red pills.  I imagine it would be hard to believe in a "bible" god who takes care of his followers if that's the examples you had as a child.  

 

DB

[Casey]

7 minutes ago, DarkBishop said:

 I imagine it would be hard to believe in a "bible" god who takes care of his followers if that's the examples you had as a child.  

 

It is. It's also difficult to believe in any Protestant denomination's version of the myth when they tell you, "But you see, catholics aren't True Christians!" Funny that; we were always told we were the first christians.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

Lol its no different in any of the other denominations either. I was raised Baptist, participated in several different baptist denominations, converted to Church of God of The Gospel Assembly, dealt with Seventh day Adventist and Mormons on a personal level and they all think they are the "TRUE" Christians. It's like a broken record no matter what church you go to. 

[DarkFlash]

When of course, in reality as laughable as i've seen it to be, not one of them have a clue of what holds true in terms of religion. Considering the additives on what makes theirs all the more legitimate or even passable for others to make their deluded entry into what is deemed right, very much is it sorrowful. Though speaking of the Matrix, i'd like to think that we're pretty much around that scene of Neo fighting the Smiths in Reloaded as well when it comes to combatting one Christian after the next depending on who opposes what they believe is in truth to them. Hell, even in slience to just live life, could we use this scene. The churches and how we're viewed and even ridiculed proves such.