Idiots and their need for "proof"

[L.B.]

Just feeling pissed right now, and I keep coming across idiots on Facebook (mostly because my wife shares or comments on their posts) who talk about "proof" of the existence of their god or their demand for "proof" that there is no god.

 

I just laugh to myself... you can't prove there is NOT something. You can only prove that there is something, and that only by a preponderance of evidence. There are very few, if any, things we can prove not only exist, but ARE what we say they are. In other words, if I were given a wooden spoon as a baby, and all I ever did with it was bang on things, I might be either shocked to learn that it's a kitchen tool, or I might mock and say that it's OBVIOUSLY what I SAY it is, and all those other people are stupid.

 

We can prove usability, or purpose, perhaps, but I don't think it's possible to prove objectively what something is to the ABSOLUTE exclusion of anything else it could be. Hope that made sense; I'm running on not a lot of sleep these days because of the stress of living with a TrueBeliever™.

 

I keep reading stories that are nothing more than happenstance, and they are chalked up to "answered prayers" and "god's goodness".

 

Sheesh.

[florduh]

Faith is its own proof.

[Vigile]

You remember that "aha!" moment that occurred when you realized you had been played? Most people never have it. We're probably broken if the standard is the majority. 

 

 

[Lucy]

1 hour ago, Vigile said:

You remember that "aha!" moment that occurred when you realized you had been played? Most people never have it. We're probably broken if the standard is the majority. 

 

 

 

When the "I am wrong epiphany" hits someone, they usually throw a childish tantrum and then try to erase it from their minds. Most people will do anything possible to avoid that realization because it causes them to doubt their own minds. They would rather go on being duped than admit they've been wrong. If you admit to yourself you've been so wrong about something so important for so long you might have to start wondering about other things you might be wrong about. Most adults would rather keep thinking what they already think and search for affirmation that they have been right all along than try to find out what is actually true. Keeping a consistent narrative in their own minds is more important than actually knowing what is real.

 

Some people believe that they are who they are because they are good True Christians who learned everything they need to know from the Bible which is the greatest book ever written. If you see Christianity as the main defining characteristic of who you are as a human being then anything that makes you doubt the truth of Christianity also makes you doubt your own identity. The fact that they need to constantly remind themselves of all the "proofs" of Christianity is evidence that they don't see it as something obviously true already.

[MOHO]

3 hours ago, Vigile said:

You remember that "aha!" moment that occurred when you realized you had been played? Most people never have it. We're probably broken if the standard is the majority. 

 

 

 

I'm OK with broken if it means accepting the truth.

Now. If I could just break Mrs. MOHO in a similar manner.

[sdelsolray]

9 hours ago, L.B. said:

Just feeling pissed right now, and I keep coming across idiots on Facebook (mostly because my wife shares or comments on their posts) who talk about "proof" of the existence of their god or their demand for "proof" that there is no god.

 

I just laugh to myself... you can't prove there is NOT something. You can only prove that there is something, and that only by a preponderance of evidence. There are very few, if any, things we can prove not only exist, but ARE what we say they are. In other words, if I were given a wooden spoon as a baby, and all I ever did with it was bang on things, I might be either shocked to learn that it's a kitchen tool, or I might mock and say that it's OBVIOUSLY what I SAY it is, and all those other people are stupid.

 

We can prove usability, or purpose, perhaps, but I don't think it's possible to prove objectively what something is to the ABSOLUTE exclusion of anything else it could be. Hope that made sense; I'm running on not a lot of sleep these days because of the stress of living with a TrueBeliever™.

 

I keep reading stories that are nothing more than happenstance, and they are chalked up to "answered prayers" and "god's goodness".

 

Sheesh.

 

 

While I agree with your observation that theists (i) typically have a strange definition for the terms "proof" and "evidence" and (ii) often attempt to shift the burden of proof, I disagree with your statement, "you can't prove there is NOT something."

 

In many circumstances, a negative can clearly be demonstrated.  Of course, it depends on the nature of the negative claim.  If it is limited it can often be addressed.  If it is unlimited it usually can't.  For example, if I claim is, "There is a German Shepard dog in my living room", you can inspect the room and find evidence of whether that dog is there or not there. So, if that person says, "Prove the dog is not there", you can do so.  We can each come up with thousands of example of limited negative claims that are completely subject to verification.

 

On the other hand, a claimant who states, "My God exists...prove that He doesn't", is a different type.  It is not limited to the living room, or the Earth, etc.  In those cases, the maxim, "That which is asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" applies.  Note that the maxim is not mandatory (hence the "can be dismissed" not "must be dismissed") because the listener can chose to dismiss the claim without evidence or accept the claim without evidence.

[LogicalFallacy]

Easy solution: Ask them to disprove the existence of your pet pink pixie dragon that is transcendent, immaterial, and invisible that reveals itself to your mind

[Wertbag]

2 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

Easy solution: Ask them to disprove the existence of your pet pink pixie dragon that is transcendent, immaterial, and invisible that reveals itself to your mind

 

The reason that works is the lack of any interaction with the unicorn.  If the person makes any claims that their unicorn leaves hoof prints, eats their carrots and knocks over their bird bath then you can absolutely test those interactions.  With God He is claimed to help his followers, He is claimed to want peace and happiness, He is claimed to want a personal relationship with us.  All of these claims can be tested, and if every characteristic is shown to be false then the entire premise is destroyed.

The only God you cannot disprove is a god who does nothing and is nothing, and such a god is irrelevant and not worth our time.

I sometimes feel like I'm one of the minority of atheists who would use the gnostic title.  I don't just believe there is no god, I know there is no god as the evidence is perfectly clear. There is no need to give any weight to the ridiculous doubts.

[mwc]

     You don't need proof for god.  You just need proof for any of that nonsense.  And it just doesn't come.  No god.  No angels.  Good or bad.  Tell Satan you're ready to sign your soul away.  Does he ever appear?  Nope.  He's not interested either.

 

     After all this shit over wars for souls and when one is just laying there legs spread ready for either side to come get it, first come first served, wouldn't you know no one comes a'calling.  Suddenly your super sexy soul gets swiped left on the supernatural Tinder.

 

          mwc