Moxie Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Conservative Christianity and white supremacy are bedfellows. Has anyone else noticed this? I'm sure you have. What on earth would make so many Christians really believe that they can still go to heaven whilst hating people different from them? Do they not realise that white supremacy is not what the historical Jesus Christ stood for? The man was a Jew. I have even heard Christians say that real Christians vote for Trump. American conservative Christians have chosen to abandon the real faith and embrace the idea that their god approves of white supremacy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 There is certainly a good bit of overlap, but be careful not to conflate the two. I used to be a conservative Christian, but I've never supported white supremacy, and I still know a lot of conservative Christians who don't support it. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TABA Posted April 30, 2017 Moderator Share Posted April 30, 2017 I agree with Citsonga: there is surely some overlap but I don't recall encountering significant racism among my fellow conservative Christians over the course of my 20 years in the faith. There is a growing tendency on the left to see racism everywhere (among whites only, of course). In truth, there are white racists and black racists, Christian, Muslim, Jewish and atheist racists. While I'm no fan of theism, to say that "American conservative Christians have chosen to abandon the real faith and embrace the idea that their god approves of white supremacy" is a gross exaggeration, in my opinion. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 I think part of the problem here is that "conservative Christianity" is too broad. It seems to me (and I don't have any data to back it up, but it's my gut feeling) that the white supremacist Christians probably largely come from the "redneck Christian" camp, where they're more concerned about toting guns and displaying confederate flags than they are about the actual tenets of religion. There may also be some from the super-fundy crowd, of course. However, there are a lot of conservative Christians who are not part of those groups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted April 30, 2017 Author Share Posted April 30, 2017 Citsonga, you might be right. It's a mixed bag. Yesterday I had a chat with a conservative Christian, who says that America was founded under God. I disagreed and said that America was never under God as long as American slavery was happening. She replied, "The Bible says, 'slaves obey your masters.' " I stopped chatting with this person after that. This sort of profound ignorance is part of what I'm talking about. If there is a significant number of conservative Christians who do not align with white nationalism and white supremacy, then how do they distance themselves from the redneck camp? I guess I need to ask them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 2 hours ago, VeraBradley said: Conservative Christianity and white supremacy are bedfellows. Has anyone else noticed this? I'm sure you have. What on earth would make so many Christians really believe that they can still go to heaven whilst hating people different from them? Do they not realise that white supremacy is not what the historical Jesus Christ stood for? The man was a Jew. I have even heard Christians say that real Christians vote for Trump. American conservative Christians have chosen to abandon the real faith and embrace the idea that their god approves of white supremacy. Most modern religions are composed of denominations, sects and/or cults, each of which differs from the others to varying degrees. It is not surprising at all that some sects within Christianity will align in part with White Supremacists due to commonly taught beliefs of being special and being chosen and the indoctrinated fears of xenophobia and other human gene pools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellinas Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Are there not a lot of rather conservative black Christians in the USA? There are over this side of the pond. I've met some of them. They rarely count as white supremacists. However, I have met white fundies who would maintain that "mixed" marriages (a concept I do not recognise as, last time a checked, we're all human regardless of skin colour, but no doubt you understand what is meant by that terminology) are wrong and unscriptural, that the descendants of Ham (by which they mean anyone neither white nor semitic) are under a curse, destined to be second class citizens and servants, and who clearly view non-whites as somehow subservient. My conclusion has been that such beliefs represent a process of fitting rather old fashioned cultural stereotypes into their belief system rather than anything inherent in Christianity. Not that I'm given to defending Christianity... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator TABA Posted April 30, 2017 Moderator Share Posted April 30, 2017 55 minutes ago, VeraBradley said: Citsonga, you might be right. It's a mixed bag. Yesterday I had a chat with a conservative Christian, who says that America was founded under God. I disagreed and said that America was never under God as long as American slavery was happening. She replied, "The Bible says, 'slaves obey your masters.' " I stopped chatting with this person after that. This sort of profound ignorance is part of what I'm talking about. If there is a significant number of conservative Christians who do not align with white nationalism and white supremacy, then how do they distance themselves from the redneck camp? I guess I need to ask them. The best advice I could give to conservative Christians would be to deconvert and join us here so we can help them through the transition! ? Seriously though, Christianity, Islam and Judaism have all either encouraged or provided cover for slavery, ethnic cleansing etc. Theism can't be fixed, it needs to be abandoned. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjn Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 People can use their religion to justify just about anything. There are black supremacist congregations too, as well as entire religions/sects whose very foundations are racist. The Nation of Islam is a perfect example of this. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chikirin Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Maybe White supremacists embrace Christianity because it gives them a cover of respectability? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhim Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 Hi all! I've been off the forums for awhile (not on purpose, just a very active social life the past couple months). This seems like an interesting topic for me to jump into upon my return. I realize we have a diverse background of experiences with Christians here. In my experience, evangelical Christians are about as far from being white supremacists as any subgroup I've ever seen. Admittedly there's a sort of selection bias going on here. Given that I'm Indian, the only time I'd ever experience white supremacy is if someone wants to abandon all politeness and tell me they're superior to me by virtue of their race, so I'm sure that any white supremacy in the church occurred behind closed doors, from my perspective. However, I never once witnessed the telltale signs of white supremacy any time during my experience with Christians. No one ever disapproved of interracial couples, spoke negatively of racial groups, etc. People certainly did have little compunction about pointing to the intrinsic moral failings of certain cultures. But that's not racism, and it certainly isn't white supremacy. I have a litany of grievances against evangelical Christianity. But I can't legitimately charge them with white supremacy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sybaris Posted April 30, 2017 Share Posted April 30, 2017 My mom is a thumper and the day before I married my first wife she talked to me about the races mixing and the biblical inferences against it ........... my wife was 1/4 Filipino the rest all cracka. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted April 30, 2017 Author Share Posted April 30, 2017 It also may be because of where I live. I live in a red state that is moderately conservative. I also frequent a christian chat room in which people express strong opinions, so I guess most racist sentiments are expressed in secret. It's that overlap that really concerns me. I wish more christians would speak out against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rerics Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 Tribal religions like Judaism and Christianity are big on the "chosen people" mentality, so it's not surprising that "unchosen people" are the result. Given this, there is little problem in accepting the idea of superior and inferior people in both the eyes of man and god. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsathoggua9 Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 22 hours ago, VeraBradley said: Citsonga, you might be right. It's a mixed bag. Yesterday I had a chat with a conservative Christian, who says that America was founded under God. I disagreed and said that America was never under God as long as American slavery was happening. She replied, "The Bible says, 'slaves obey your masters.' " I stopped chatting with this person after that. This sort of profound ignorance is part of what I'm talking about. If there is a significant number of conservative Christians who do not align with white nationalism and white supremacy, then how do they distance themselves from the redneck camp? I guess I need to ask them. It is funny that she said that, since the American Revolution runs contrary to Romans 13, which says to accept the "powers that be", because God put them there! Ain't no excuse for rebellin', that's fer sure! But back to the "white supremacy" subject -- I've never known anybody in the "Church of Christ" that really buys into that philosophy. At least no one comes to mind at the moment.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsathoggua9 Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 21 hours ago, Ellinas said: Are there not a lot of rather conservative black Christians in the USA? There are over this side of the pond. I've met some of them. They rarely count as white supremacists. However, I have met white fundies who would maintain that "mixed" marriages (a concept I do not recognise as, last time a checked, we're all human regardless of skin colour, but no doubt you understand what is meant by that terminology) are wrong and unscriptural, that the descendants of Ham (by which they mean anyone neither white nor semitic) are under a curse, destined to be second class citizens and servants, and who clearly view non-whites as somehow subservient. My conclusion has been that such beliefs represent a process of fitting rather old fashioned cultural stereotypes into their belief system rather than anything inherent in Christianity. Not that I'm given to defending Christianity... For many people in the "Church of Christ", a mixed marriage is when an erring member loses their damm mind and marries a stinkin' Baptist... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy Posted May 1, 2017 Share Posted May 1, 2017 I don't think conservative Christians tend to be white supremacists, but it appears white supremacists tend to be conservative Christians. It sounds like you just live in a region with a lot of white supremacist Christians. There are so many ultra conservative black Christians here I can't conflate the two. In my town blacks tend to be far more conservative Christian than the whites. If I were to make a racial observation on Christianity based on what I see in my region it would have been blacks tend to be conservative Christian and whites tend to be liberal Christian. Also agnostic and atheist groups tend to be mostly whites. The Old Testament is pretty racist actually. God chooses one tribal group to be His Chosen. Everybody else doesn't matter because they don't worship the correct god because he didn't reveal himself to them. There are some quotes from Jesus that appear he was a Jewish/Israelite supremacist, but some could argue that was because they were the only ones following the "correct" religion at the time. The Bible does support slavery, but you have to release slaves that are of your own people while you don't have to release foreign slaves. So the slavery system has racist rules. The religion lends itself to "Chosen ones" mentality. There are also groups, both white and black, that claim they are the original chosen Israelites and the current people claiming to be Jews are fraudsters. You might want to look into Christian Identity (white) and Nation of Islam (black). Both of these groups claim they are the real Chosen. 23 hours ago, VeraBradley said: Citsonga, you might be right. It's a mixed bag. Yesterday I had a chat with a conservative Christian, who says that America was founded under God. I disagreed and said that America was never under God as long as American slavery was happening. She replied, "The Bible says, 'slaves obey your masters.' " I stopped chatting with this person after that. This sort of profound ignorance is part of what I'm talking about. If there is a significant number of conservative Christians who do not align with white nationalism and white supremacy, then how do they distance themselves from the redneck camp? I guess I need to ask them. I have met some conservative Christian blacks that supported the view that old slavery in the United States based on the Bible and was therefore the Will of God. Basically they said their African ancestors were polytheist idolators so they had to have trials and tribulations for several generations to punish the people for their idolatry. The bible says god punishes several generations for the sins of the father. Once god was satisfied that the slaves had been Christian for several generations he allowed the abolition of slavery. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted May 1, 2017 Super Moderator Share Posted May 1, 2017 It appears that all white supremacists are Christian but not all Christians are white supremacists. I'm sure the majority of white supremacists drink coffee, but coffee doesn't make one a white supremacist either. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightcore Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 I think that racists just... dig in anywhere honestly. There's a lot of it in pagan communities too. You can be a bigot no matter what, I think in America it's just the Christian ones that are the loudest. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilith666 Posted May 2, 2017 Share Posted May 2, 2017 How do you, personally, define white supremacy? I know someone from a fundy family who has a black boyfriend, and from the little bit I've seen on Facebook, they are (surprisingly) fairly receptive to her apparent belief that white privilege exists. I'm not surprised because I thought they were racist, but because fundies don't tend to buy into the idea of white privilege in the present day. The fundies I know may differ in that aspect from the ones you've met, but I've never thought of racism and Christian conservatism as being closely-linked, at least not recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moxie Posted May 5, 2017 Author Share Posted May 5, 2017 On 5/2/2017 at 11:43 AM, Lilith666 said: How do you, personally, define white supremacy? I know someone from a fundy family who has a black boyfriend, and from the little bit I've seen on Facebook, they are (surprisingly) fairly receptive to her apparent belief that white privilege exists. I'm not surprised because I thought they were racist, but because fundies don't tend to buy into the idea of white privilege in the present day. The fundies I know may differ in that aspect from the ones you've met, but I've never thought of racism and Christian conservatism as being closely-linked, at least not recently. I personally define white supremacy as fear of blackness and an overgrown sense of pride in whiteness. It appears to be in my face more because of where I live. I also think about how some tenets of Christianity are used to sustain white supremacy. An example is the verse "if a man does not work, he shall not eat." This verse has been used to point fingers at welfare recipients under the assumption that they are all black. Another thing to think about is the subtext beneath phrases that Christians share, such as "take our country back." They don't simply mean the country should be Christian, but also that it should be lily white. A Trump supporter who ran for Congress in Tennessee included a photo of Jesus Christ with the disciples in his billboard: By and large, Christian conservatives who are white supremacists wax nostalgic for a Mayberry that never existed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rounin Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Obviously, white supremacism doesn't mesh very well with the Christian message. But from a purely psychological standpoint, a tendency to strongly prefer that which is familiar and safe over that which is unknown or foreign could conceivably lead to both religious conservatism and racism. I wonder if Jonathan Haidt has said anything on that topic. I find his ideas about the psychology of political views very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now