Wanting thoughts on dealing with family situation

[LogicalFallacy]

Hey all

 

My name is... never mind you know who I am.

 

So for those unfamiliar with my situation I came out about not believing in God some six months ago and left the family church. After some pressure from the family I started going back after about a month to show I was "open minded and giving God a chance to speak to me" (Their words) Naturally this hasn't happened... pretty hard for a non existent being to reveal itself. That aside I have been thinking of how to extract myself a second time without the second nuclear war going off in 7 months within the family.

 

This brings me to the crux of my problems: My mother is rather fragile (But would adamantly declare the opposite). On my coming out she apparently was close to going coo coo, which was a big influence on my going back. She hasn't seemed right since my coming out - like she's been having anxiety attacks sort of thing. She recently went to the doctor with problems and they tested her for heart attack. It's come back clear (thankfully).

 

However, right at this time I am wanting to say to the family, look I've tried, I don't believe, me being in church is a waste of time and I don't like it I am leaving for good. Now of course I am worried that such a move might cause major issues with mum so now I feel well and truly trapped. If something does happen the family could/might apply all sorts of pressure and blame on me.

 

 

I know this might be a heard ask given the circumstances, but any advice on how to proceed, should I proceed? What if I say I'm leaving and she has a heart attack or something? My normal rational logical mind is not dealing with this sort of unknown. The only real life people I have to talk about it are all family/friends in church so not much go there.

 

Thanks

LF

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

That is a rock and a hard place you find yourself between for sure. It would have been better to not have come out the first time and just have "back slid" out of church without them knowing why. They are surprisingly more accepting of that. Especially if they are the once saved always saved variety. That being said, what's done is done and that's not gonna work for you now.

     I understand your feelings toward not wanting to upset your mom. I'm the same way. My mother and I are close. She wants me to go back to church (preferably theirs as they will have a higher spot in heaven because they are the "true" church) but I just can't. I can handle an every once in awhile visit (which I tend to make sure they are having dinner if I go because church food is still good lol) but I don't want her to ever know I don't believe anymore. I truly think it would cause her similar problems like your mother.

     So I know this sounds horrible but in the long run it may be beneficial. In my area there are churches everywhere of all different denominations. I don't know how it is there but maybe you can fake it. Let your mom think you have accepted Jesus again but later on decide you want to try another.... "more relaxed" denomination. Then gradually go to church less and less. Then If your mom finds out your not going to church just tell her your trying to find another church you like better or (if she will accept this) you don't believe you have to go to church to worship God. You could always get up, get ready, and go to your favorite coffee shop or pub instead right? Lol. Maybe a two hour stroll in the park just enjoying nature or reading your current (input athiest author) book.

     I know I may get a little rebuff from this suggestion, but its the only way (I can think of) to get out of church without causing your mom some severe mental trauma. It sounds like she is deeply indoctrinated and that she loves you immensely, other wise she wouldn't be having the reaction she has had. The thought of not being able to see her child in heaven is to much for her. I hope this helps...... sorry man wish I could think of something better.

 

Dark Bishop

[florduh]

Sad situation hard for everyone. Sorry you've been burdened with this.

 

The bottom line is there are things you're not responsible for, nor do you always have control over them. One such thing is the way others respond to a given situation. The fact is, this is all on her and you have done nothing wrong. You simply can't share her beliefs and there's nothing you or she can do about that.

 

I can tell you that my own mother was quite the drama queen and when things didn't go her way she would try to manipulate others to do her bidding by even feigning illness. Just a thought.

 

Good luck.

[Daffodil]

I agree with florduh.  It is really hard to cut apron strings sometimes, and some family members make it especially difficult.  It sounds like she may have had an anxiety attack.  I have had a few of those and they really do feel like you are having a heart attack.  If she's not already getting checked for mental health issues, you might encourage her to.  Don't call it that, of course!  Just tell her you're concerned about her stress levels and that she might be able to get some help from a doctor.  

 

As florduh said, though, you're ultimately only responsible for yourself and your life is your own.  Do you really want to, with respect to DB, live a lie, even if only for a short while?  I would guess her extreme reactions are the result of you dropping a bomb on her.  I would suggest letting things quiet down, let her get used to the idea, and refuse to back down or capitulate.  If she really is a drama queen, then it is all an act and your steadfastness will force her to change tactics.  If she really is having panic attacks, then her issues are mental health related and there is nothing you can do about it but encourage her to get help.

[LogicalFallacy]

Hi all

 

Thanks for the replies so far. Greatly appreciated. It helps think through the situation reading others perspectives on it.

10 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

 

     So I know this sounds horrible but in the long run it may be beneficial. In my area there are churches everywhere of all different denominations. I don't know how it is there but maybe you can fake it. Let your mom think you have accepted Jesus again but later on decide you want to try another.... "more relaxed" denomination. Then gradually go to church less and less. Then If your mom finds out your not going to church just tell her your trying to find another church you like better or (if she will accept this) you don't believe you have to go to church to worship God. You could always get up, get ready, and go to your favorite coffee shop or pub instead right? Lol. Maybe a two hour stroll in the park just enjoying nature or reading your current (input athiest author) book.

 

I'd like for this to work DB, but it won't in my situation. My church is a small family orientated fundamentalists independent church who thinks the denominational churches are the Foolish virgins from the parable in Matthew. (Except the Catholics who are the antichrist yo) So as much as I like this idea I can be certain it won't work.

 

I wish that we were part of a large congregation where my father is not the pastor - it would make getting out easier. I'd would be able to strike at the doctrines with disdain and abandon, show how wrong and foolish they are even from a biblical perspective, but because my father is the pastor I can't do that... well not without causing a shit storm. My group is essentially one of these little 'chosen' groups who the entire world is against. That kind of mentality makes it really hard to reason out of or slide away from.

 

 

10 hours ago, DarkBishop said:

     I know I may get a little rebuff from this suggestion, but its the only way (I can think of) to get out of church without causing your mom some severe mental trauma. It sounds like she is deeply indoctrinated and that she loves you immensely, other wise she wouldn't be having the reaction she has had. The thought of not being able to see her child in heaven is to much for her. I hope this helps...... sorry man wish I could think of something better.

 

Dark Bishop

Not rebuff my friend, its a good suggestion, it just won't work, but you'd have to know all my intricate details to realise that so thanks for the suggestions anyway.

 

 

10 hours ago, florduh said:

Sad situation hard for everyone. Sorry you've been burdened with this.

 

The bottom line is there are things you're not responsible for, nor do you always have control over them. One such thing is the way others respond to a given situation. The fact is, this is all on her and you have done nothing wrong. You simply can't share her beliefs and there's nothing you or she can do about that.

 

I can tell you that my own mother was quite the drama queen and when things didn't go her way she would try to manipulate others to do her bidding by even feigning illness. Just a thought.

 

Good luck.

 

Thanks florduh. Mum's definitely not feigning. She gets affected by things like this, and has down her whole life. I am sure most of it is stress/anxiety related. Daffodil mentioned anxiety and I agree - I also get panic attacks and I think that the 'stress' of this whole situation is having a negative effect on mum because she won't accept I don't believe. When you start rejecting stuff like this, if you have the propensity towards anxiety, it can rely stuff you up. That's why I'm so worried now at this time about saying I want to leave... again.

 

 

3 hours ago, Daffodil said:

I agree with florduh.  It is really hard to cut apron strings sometimes, and some family members make it especially difficult.  It sounds like she may have had an anxiety attack.  I have had a few of those and they really do feel like you are having a heart attack.  If she's not already getting checked for mental health issues, you might encourage her to.  Don't call it that, of course!  Just tell her you're concerned about her stress levels and that she might be able to get some help from a doctor.  

 

As florduh said, though, you're ultimately only responsible for yourself and your life is your own.  Do you really want to, with respect to DB, live a lie, even if only for a short while?  I would guess her extreme reactions are the result of you dropping a bomb on her.  I would suggest letting things quiet down, let her get used to the idea, and refuse to back down or capitulate.  If she really is a drama queen, then it is all an act and your steadfastness will force her to change tactics.  If she really is having panic attacks, then her issues are mental health related and there is nothing you can do about it but encourage her to get help.

 

Daffodil, no I don't want to live a lie which is why I came out and told the truth in the first place. I kind of agree with DB when he says it would have been better in hindsight to just 'backslide' the first time. However the die is cast.

 

I certainly won't tell mum she might be having mental health issues lol - that might be just as bad lol

 

I have been letting them get used to the idea for 6 months. I constantly tell them I don't believe - my mother is in real denial because when I tell her that to her face she says of course you believe. The question is, how long to I "let them get used to it'? 6 months, a year, 3 years. 10? My father keeps repeating that "we are on a journey together". Again a sign of unacceptance. He believes God is using me for a greater purpose. I can't quite bring myself to tell him we are not on a journey together as he thinks, and there is no reason for me to be attending church. *Sigh* If I had my sisters temperament I might have said that a while ago.

 

 

Thanks again for the thoughts peeps, it actually helps just venting a bit bout he whole situation.

[Daffodil]

I'm glad you're sharing this, LF, it's very interesting to see different families reactions.  I would say that if it's been several months and they just refuse to engage you and your decisions with any respect that anyone else would give to another thinking/feeling person, then it's time to just refuse to engage them when they bring it up.  Shut the conversation down as soon as they start it, with "I don't think you are respecting me as an individual with my own thoughts, and so I will not talk about this with you."  Leave the room if you have to to get their attention, but don't continue in these discussions if they won't engage you with respect.  Love them, speak with the respect due to them as your parents, but refuse to talk about any of it until they treat you as an individual.

[☆ DarkBishop ☆]

Hollow out a bible big enough four your E-reader of choice, sit in the back pew, and politely read your non-Christian book of choice in disguise LOL. Your good until some nosey patron decides to sneak up behind you to see what your doing. Then you may be tarred and feathered for desecrating the sacred and Holy word of God.

 

DB

[Margee]

LF, With your 'coming out', you have changed your parents perception of you, and you are now classified in a  group of people they may not understand....they may even fear you. Non-believers in god are very scary to the firm believer. (I once thought atheists were evil people) They cannot even fathom that someone may not believe , let alone their own son. So this is really hard on them too.

 

Set an example by continuing to be  honest and kind. Show them that you are the same person. Also understand that you have every right to your own opinions, and that you are not responsible for how your parents react to this. Realize how brainwashed they are and remain as patient as you can. You can try to help them understand your positions and your reasons, but you are not obligated to fix their distress. Everyone has to take care of their own emotional well-being. if they see you as a upright, sincere person with good moral principles, this has the potential to ease a lot of their worries and they may very well just take to praying for you. There is no road map with this dilemma, this is a bumpy ride and you're going to have to feel this out in the dark. (but we're right here to be a 'light' for you!) Don't stress if you stumble or encounter roadblocks. Keep reverting to the basic principles.... kindness, gentleness, honesty, critical thought and you will get through this somehow. Hang in there my friend.

 

((hug))

[Guest]

I have found that the best way to tone down my fundy mom is to ask her why she doesn't trust her own faith (and her own god) when it comes to me. This is pretty easily accomplished with her because she believes in predestination. Therefore I am a robot following god's ultimate plan for me anyway. That aside I SO agree with comments that you are not responsible for the reaction of others. You have one life to live. Don't waste time deliberating how to ensure loved ones will react to your sane decisions. Set limits while remaining kind and loving. The more they see that they can control you, the more they'll attempt to do so. (Thats my 2 cents anyway).

[TABA]

I think Burnedout's suggestion of moving to another part of the country is sound.  You are in your thirties, right?  You need to establish your own life independent of your parents.  If not now, when?  I realize that moving doesn't solve your problem by itself, but putting physical distance between you and your family/church would surely help you.  

 

Since your parents and church believe that pretty much everybody else is Lost, how do they go through life knowing that the people they pass on the street every day are likely bound for Hell?  Are they OK with that?  Or do they have such a narrow social circle that they avoid meeting the Hellbound folk as much as possible?

 

I wish I could offer you more help, I really do.  You only have one life.  It's yours to live.  I wish you the very best.  You have been a valuable addition to our community.  You deserve better than this.  

[florduh]

Quote

The more they see that they can control you, the more they'll attempt to do so.

Faithfulless went right to the heart of the matter. This is all you need to know. It's just a damn shame that someone would actually become ill upon failing to exert control.

[MOHO]

15 hours ago, Faithfulless said:

I have found that the best way to tone down my fundy mom is to ask her why she doesn't trust her own faith (and her own god) when it comes to me. This is pretty easily accomplished with her because she believes in predestination. Therefore I am a robot following god's ultimate plan for me anyway. That aside I SO agree with comments that you are not responsible for the reaction of others. You have one life to live. Don't waste time deliberating how to ensure loved ones will react to your sane decisions. Set limits while remaining kind and loving. The more they see that they can control you, the more they'll attempt to do so. (Thats my 2 cents anyway).

 

WOW!

That explains a few things.

What wimpy puss-ball I've been.

[LogicalFallacy]

On 5/2/2017 at 11:47 AM, ExPCA said:

 

I want to say:      

Proceed out of the church -  something you clearly want to do. Be kind, communicative, and receptive. But your convictions do not have to align with your mom's convictions. Her health issues are not caused by you, but by her.

 

After my personal experiences with asshole helicopter parents (mom who got cancer a year after I left her bitchyness and the roman catholic church):

While it is true that your convictions do not have to align with your mom's and that her health issues have nothing to do with you... Maybe consider staying in the church for the social and emotional support for yourself... if nothing else to keep your sense of self and sanity. Treat it as a social and religious experiment. Test others and test yourself. Motivate yourself to get better in other areas of life - health and weight loss, career, relationships, reading things that will help you move forward and help you with your frustrations.

 

Just some thoughts, man. Religion and appeasing family members are not all that life is about. Hope this helps in some way.

 

Hi ExPCA

 

Re your fist line, that's something I want to do - and soonish. The issue for me staying in church is that its is not social and emotional support - its the opposite. We have two reasons for this: First I'm introvert so pretty much prefer my own company, or the intellectual company of a few others. Second is that when I'm with them and I know we disagree, and I hear the pastor teaching them creation 'science' it really upsets me and I can't 'let it go'. Hence much emotional discomfort. 

 

Definitely looking at other areas of my life - I love science, ancient mythology etc so I have been doing a lot of catching up. Relationships is something that I want to work on but at the same time terrified of. All contacts are in church, and telling an introvert to go out meet people is.... well scary lol. So yeah, certainly need to work on that.

 

Thanks for you thoughts!

 

 

On 5/2/2017 at 0:08 PM, DarkBishop said:

Hollow out a bible big enough four your E-reader of choice, sit in the back pew, and politely read your non-Christian book of choice in disguise LOL. Your good until some nosey patron decides to sneak up behind you to see what your doing. Then you may be tarred and feathered for desecrating the sacred and Holy word of God.

 

DB

 

Hey DB, Haha, church is too small - I'd be spotted by the pastor pretty much instantly. Love the idea though - so tempted. Hollow it out and take in Dawkins "The God Delusion"

 

On 5/2/2017 at 1:14 PM, Margee said:

LF, With your 'coming out', you have changed your parents perception of you, and you are now classified in a  group of people they may not understand....they may even fear you. Non-believers in god are very scary to the firm believer. (I once thought atheists were evil people) They cannot even fathom that someone may not believe , let alone their own son. So this is really hard on them too.

 

Set an example by continuing to be  honest and kind. Show them that you are the same person. Also understand that you have every right to your own opinions, and that you are not responsible for how your parents react to this. Realize how brainwashed they are and remain as patient as you can. You can try to help them understand your positions and your reasons, but you are not obligated to fix their distress. Everyone has to take care of their own emotional well-being. if they see you as a upright, sincere person with good moral principles, this has the potential to ease a lot of their worries and they may very well just take to praying for you. There is no road map with this dilemma, this is a bumpy ride and you're going to have to feel this out in the dark. (but we're right here to be a 'light' for you!) Don't stress if you stumble or encounter roadblocks. Keep reverting to the basic principles.... kindness, gentleness, honesty, critical thought and you will get through this somehow. Hang in there my friend.

 

((hug))

 

Thanks Margee

 

All great advice as is usual from you. The only thing I'd say is now sadly I think my parents and I differ greatly on what is moral and what is not, and what is acceptable and what is not... and what causes societies problems and what helps. When they express some views I simply remain quiet... though I sometimes feel that by being quiet I contribute to people being less tolerant... all to make it so I'm not cooked in the fire.

 

 

 

On 5/2/2017 at 1:58 PM, Faithfulless said:

I have found that the best way to tone down my fundy mom is to ask her why she doesn't trust her own faith (and her own god) when it comes to me. This is pretty easily accomplished with her because she believes in predestination. Therefore I am a robot following god's ultimate plan for me anyway. That aside I SO agree with comments that you are not responsible for the reaction of others. You have one life to live. Don't waste time deliberating how to ensure loved ones will react to your sane decisions. Set limits while remaining kind and loving. The more they see that they can control you, the more they'll attempt to do so. (Thats my 2 cents anyway).

 

I challenged by father with something like what you did - I said the bible says God sends a delusion and blinds eyes - so isn't it possible that my eyes are blinded by God and that you agree? He had to agree.

 

Your last three sentences are gold - thank you.

 

On 5/2/2017 at 11:28 AM, Burnedout said:

 

You are young.  Take a job in another part of the country away from home.  You are not in such a large country that you could not be home in a few hours.  Start looking for employment that matches your skills and education then go for it.  That will free you from being home and all you have to do is put up with the occasional phone calls from them with the occasional guilt trip lines that you can calmly ignore.  It will also give them an excuse to tell church members that you just got a good job in another part of the country. 

 

 

On 5/2/2017 at 10:20 PM, ThereAndBackAgain said:

I think Burnedout's suggestion of moving to another part of the country is sound.  You are in your thirties, right?  You need to establish your own life independent of your parents.  If not now, when?  I realize that moving doesn't solve your problem by itself, but putting physical distance between you and your family/church would surely help you.  

 

Since your parents and church believe that pretty much everybody else is Lost, how do they go through life knowing that the people they pass on the street every day are likely bound for Hell?  Are they OK with that?  Or do they have such a narrow social circle that they avoid meeting the Hellbound folk as much as possible?

 

I wish I could offer you more help, I really do.  You only have one life.  It's yours to live.  I wish you the very best.  You have been a valuable addition to our community.  You deserve better than this.  

 

Hi BO and TABA

 

I have had this idea - I was actually thinking of going back to uni and studying another area of knowledge... then I stop and think about how long it took to get by BBus and I think nah too much. It's possible - it means a major shift and I just really moved into my current house. My time frame was more in 3-5 years when I'm settled down and not dealing with all this - so move because I want to explore, not move to escape. Does that make sense?

 

TABA - the social circle is very small - primarily a few people within the church - so not even the entire church as small as it is (like 25 people small... and one of them is an atheist!) I actually want to ask, but consider it unwise to do so, what they think heaven will be like knowing I'm in hell? If they know then it won't be too heavenly - if they don't know well why the hell worry about my 'eternal destination' now?

 

Here's another thought, off topic: Some Christians believe that there will be no sad memories in heaven - which means any memory of loss will be gone... which means you won't remember what made life special on earth... which makes me ask: What's the purpose? They say Oh without god there is no purpose in living. Well with god there is no purpose in living! If you get a pass you end up in heaven without fully knowing why!!! (Unless you remember everything... in that case think of me long enough to make a memory... and try not think about me being in hell) Oooh I'd like to say that to them...... what a nuclear bomb that would be.

 

Thanks to all who have responded thus far - so good to have someone to talk to about problems. Talking to myself just isn't the same

 

[Lilith666]

First of all - I know your family's tactic of asking you to "give god a chance" was a while ago, but I must point out that that reasoning makes no sense. Why should you start from the position of assuming that biblegod deserves a chance? I realize that Christians have been taught to think like this thanks to their idea that Christianity is objectively the center of everything, but if you take out Christianity and replace it with any other belief system, the mindset is illogical. Would you look at, say, Islam by first "giving Allah a chance"?

 

LF, your mother's issues are not your problem. It doesn't matter if she has anxiety, if she rolls on the floor and shows her eye-whites, if she puts herself in the hospital with a heart attack and dies. Not because her feelings and health don't matter, but because getting worked up about your de-conversion is her choice. I'm not saying it to be insensitive; I'm saying it because it's the truth. Your beliefs that you don't wield over anyone else are your business, and whatever other people - no matter who they are - choose to think or feel or do about your beliefs is their business. If they choose to make themselves miserable, so be it. Next time your mother flops on the floor sobbing about you going to hell, quietly look down in pity and say, "I'm sorry you feel that way." If your family continue to manipulate you (which is what it's called when they hold your mother's problems over your head to guilt you back into their religion), set boundaries, walk away if that's what it takes to keep from allowing yourself to be controlled. Remember that you cannot make others happy. You don't owe anyone your life trying to accomplish something that only they can do for themselves.

[Ellinas]

There is a bottom line on this.

 

Your life to live.  Not your parents' lives to live through you.

 

Parents have a habit of trying to pressurize their children to follow the values and beliefs they see as appropriate.  I actually saw this from the other end of the spectrum, so to speak, when my CofE parents reacted to my turning to fundie Christianity.  It was painful, but I stuck to my guns and they had no option but to accept it.

 

I doubt that they would approve of my paganism either, if they were still around and aware of it.

 

As to isolation, have you no hobbies or interests that might lead you into contact with groups or clubs of people with similar interests?

[Lilith666]

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 9:58 PM, Faithfulless said:

The more they see that they can control you, the more they'll attempt to do so.

HELL YES!

[LogicalFallacy]

On 5/5/2017 at 7:48 AM, ExPCA said:

 

That plan makes a lot sense. I'm introverted and intellectually-inclined too. In my experiences, it's the quiet and thoughtful people that take the cult seriously that get hurt the most. Mainly because all pastors, elders, and church spies are all conceited assholes who don't listen. 

 

I left the church 6 months ago and am still confused and, well, pretty messed up emotionally. It's excruciating with all the guilt and pain of being essentially excommunicated from a church. Lots of good days, but the times when I'm alone are really rough.

 

The first advice I got here on ExC was to find new community and social groups, which is difficult. Ugh good luck!

 

I understand ExPCA. I'm like that, sometimes I'm all good ready to take on any Christian dumb enough to utter the phrase God Bless, other times just really worried about my situation. Like Margee says its a long process and you don't just leave and everything's hokey. I hope we both in time find new lives and heal fully.

 

Re finding social groups - I know right. You are a shy introvert - go make new friends (Me in my shell) New friends? Where, How? Shit being pretty much isolated for my development years hasn't helped. My intellectual capabilities seems fine... social capabilities.... ick 

 

On 5/7/2017 at 9:35 AM, Lilith666 said:

First of all - I know your family's tactic of asking you to "give god a chance" was a while ago, but I must point out that that reasoning makes no sense. Why should you start from the position of assuming that biblegod deserves a chance? I realize that Christians have been taught to think like this thanks to their idea that Christianity is objectively the center of everything, but if you take out Christianity and replace it with any other belief system, the mindset is illogical. Would you look at, say, Islam by first "giving Allah a chance"?

 

I know, I know I know. It was, um yeah. Dumb. I asked them why God needed a chance - wasn't my best 1/3 of life enough? I did it not because I'm giving God a chance, but for them to get over it emotionally... which seems to be working like a sieve holds water.

 

On 5/7/2017 at 9:35 AM, Lilith666 said:

 

LF, your mother's issues are not your problem. It doesn't matter if she has anxiety, if she rolls on the floor and shows her eye-whites, if she puts herself in the hospital with a heart attack and dies. Not because her feelings and health don't matter, but because getting worked up about your de-conversion is her choice. I'm not saying it to be insensitive; I'm saying it because it's the truth. Your beliefs that you don't wield over anyone else are your business, and whatever other people - no matter who they are - choose to think or feel or do about your beliefs is their business. If they choose to make themselves miserable, so be it. Next time your mother flops on the floor sobbing about you going to hell, quietly look down in pity and say, "I'm sorry you feel that way." If your family continue to manipulate you (which is what it's called when they hold your mother's problems over your head to guilt you back into their religion), set boundaries, walk away if that's what it takes to keep from allowing yourself to be controlled. Remember that you cannot make others happy. You don't owe anyone your life trying to accomplish something that only they can do for themselves.

 

I think my biggest problem is physiological. Both in that I am trying to reduce emotional discomfort for all... however seems to be sacrificing my own to do so. The other I think is a fear of leaving fully and having an unknown future. I'm not afraid of being alone, in fact I like it, but at the same time am afraid of it... weird yeah? I also like to know the future... like I plan stuff.... I know what I'm doing and when I'm doing it. Spontaneity does not become me. Probably something of a hangover from having no real social development through my teen/ early twenty years. (Well at least I can analyse myself lol)

 

On 5/7/2017 at 9:39 AM, Ellinas said:

There is a bottom line on this.

 

Your life to live.  Not your parents' lives to live through you.

 

Parents have a habit of trying to pressurize their children to follow the values and beliefs they see as appropriate.  I actually saw this from the other end of the spectrum, so to speak, when my CofE parents reacted to my turning to fundie Christianity.  It was painful, but I stuck to my guns and they had no option but to accept it.

 

I doubt that they would approve of my paganism either, if they were still around and aware of it.

 

As to isolation, have you no hobbies or interests that might lead you into contact with groups or clubs of people with similar interests?

 

Actually that kinda burns, cause I think deep down, where I don't like to admit this because of the implications, but I have been living my parents lives at least in some part. And the fact that I'm still being told that I'm an "important part of the ministry" and that "god is using me" would seem to support this parents living through me and influencing me though life decisions. But I don't want to admit that - I can't go up to them and say you know this and that, that's mainly your influence and I didn't really want to do that even though its been beneficial. ("That" being certain life decisions like jobs etc)

 

On 5/7/2017 at 9:44 AM, Lilith666 said:

HELL YES!

 

Amen sisters!

[Lilith666]

14 hours ago, LogicalFallacy said:

I think my biggest problem is physiological. Both in that I am trying to reduce emotional discomfort for all... however seems to be sacrificing my own to do so. The other I think is a fear of leaving fully and having an unknown future. I'm not afraid of being alone, in fact I like it, but at the same time am afraid of it... weird yeah? I also like to know the future... like I plan stuff.... I know what I'm doing and when I'm doing it. Spontaneity does not become me. Probably something of a hangover from having no real social development through my teen/ early twenty years. (Well at least I can analyse myself lol)

The way your family acts is a good reason to stop caring whether they're emotionally-discomforted about your beliefs. Manipulation and self-imposed victimhood mean loss of the right to consideration.

 

As far as fear of an uncertain future, that uncertainty is going to be there whether you believe in Jesus or not. Belief only provides a false sense of security. It also requires you to "lean not on your own understanding" (what a stupid phrase. People rely on their own knowledge and wisdom all the time. Christians just like to feel extra-spiritual by repeating it) which can lead you into unsavory situations if you happen to decide to trust the bible over your own experience and common sense. Essentially, you will feel safer while being less safe because you're in danger of trusting an ancient book to do your thinking for you.

[disillusioned]

I'd say just stop going. Don't make a big deal of it. Just find something else to do on Sunday mornings. If they want to talk about it, then that's up to them, but you do not need to explain yourself again. And you are not responsible for how your family reacts. You didn't make them believe. That's their issue to get through. I know it sounds harsh, but there's only some things you can solve. Do what you need to do for you. Don't be cruel about it, but don't play games either.

[LogicalFallacy]

What do you say to parents who think that their way of raising you was the best and only way? (Fairly isolated from the world from ages 12-24ish). They think they did a really good job and don't realise that lack of interaction in that time affects people. Sure thy 'kept me from the world', and I didn't do drugs and stuff... but I also find it hard to talk to and interact with people. Sure part of it is I'm introvert - but that's only got to do with energy states around people. I'm realising that once on my own, I really have no idea what to do once I'm outside my supportive bubble. Kind of peeves me off, but at the same time I know it is no use causing angst by brining up the subject... not when there are bigger issues to deal with.

 

Rant over.

 

[nutrichuckles93]

For introverts such as myself and Logical Fallacy, it's near impossible for us to "just do it." It's ingrained in our personality, indoctrinated or no, to feel more at home within ourselves. It can be hard for a more extroverted type to understand. We can't be told to "just do it" when it comes to social situations. Just saying.

[Lilith666]

 

For introverts such as myself and Logical Fallacy, it's near impossible for us to "just do it." It's ingrained in our personality, indoctrinated or no, to feel more at home within ourselves. It can be hard for a more extroverted type to understand. We can't be told to "just do it" when it comes to social situations. Just saying.

Various personality types enjoy different styles of socializing. Personally, I would hate going to a bar, with all the noise and crowds and bad lighting; I much prefer one-on-one conversations or doing something together. LF, try out different things and see what appeals to you. I don't know how often you get out or where you go, but you might like to start with something that won't be overwhelming, like going to a café, maybe chat with some of the regulars. Bring a book you enjoy, give someone a chance to ask you about it. I was sitting around (in a cubicle, not a bistro, but anyway) yesterday and asked the guy across from me how he liked his London travel guide book, and it turned out he was pretty interesting to talk to about stuff like where we want to travel and British TV shows. If you end up with a lot of anxiety about social interaction, or feel like there's something you need to work out, consider going to a counselor or support group while continuing to try to broaden your experiences and meet new people.

[LogicalFallacy]

This announcement brought to you by Fallacious News Media:

 

Alright the storm is here!

 

So I've been getting headaches and saying to parents I'm not going to church. Well mum just questioned that so I told her I don't want to go. Meeting up after church for a talk.

 

I hope this goes down well - its kinda impromptu... I was going to write to them as I'm shocking at getting thoughts out when speaking... I kinda do a FREEZE moment. Will update you folks.

 

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@Lilith666 Thanks Lilith. Good suggestions!

[sdelsolray]

 

This announcement brought to you by Fallacious News Media:

 

Alright the storm is here!

 

So I've been getting headaches and saying to parents I'm not going to church. Well mum just questioned that so I told her I don't want to go. Meeting up after church for a talk.

 

I hope this goes down well - its kinda impromptu... I was going to write to them as I'm shocking at getting thoughts out when speaking... I kinda do a FREEZE moment. Will update you folks.

 

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.

.

 

@Lilith666 Thanks Lilith. Good suggestions!

 

Good luck.  Taking the time to write to your parents about things (and perhaps having some here help edit the writing before delivery) is a good idea.  That way, you can organize and articulate your thoughts and feelings and communicate them without worry.

[LogicalFallacy]

Hi all

 

Well lunch went surprisingly well.

 

I fired off a quick email outlining my basic thoughts on leaving church and it was read before we met up for lunch. So Dad had noticed in the last few weeks I wasn't exactly happy in church and was going to talk to me anyway at some point, meanwhile I was meaning to write to him. Mum jumped the gun on us both asking if I wanted to be going to church this morning. 

 

So basically they have accepted the situation and support me in leaving church. We didn't actually talk an awful lot, just that I was leaving church but we still loved each other etc. I don't envision from their reactions that I'm going to get an awful lot of kick back from anyone else in the family. The writing was on the wall so to speak so its probably not surprising to them. I was expecting much more protest with them being fundies, but they might be more liberal than they are willing to admit, or just realise that souring family relationships when it won't change my 'spiritual' outcome is not going to help.

 

I'll keep you posted on any other updates, but for now I feel light a burden has lifted... ironically, and feel I can being the long journey of healing and figuring out more my worldview and hopefully taking some advice and meeting people. I guess I'm now officially Ex-Christian...?  

 

Thank you all so much for all your great advice and help. I couldn't have done it without all the encouragement and I'm happy to call Ex-C my second home. I don't plan on becoming inactive

 

LF