Is the US a Christian Nation?

[Bedouin]

There has been much discussion as to whether or not the United States was founded upon Christian principles, such as they are. 

 

Most secular people often cite a quote by John Adams where he stated “The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,"  and the 1st amendment to the constitution "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

 

Thomas Jefferson, in his letter to John Adams, dated April 11, 1823 states, "The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. ... But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding..."

 

However, it can't be questioned that the vast majority of those that came to North America were, in fact, Christian.  After all, they were from Western Europe, specifically England, which I think we can all agree was a Christianized nation, albeit split from Roman Catholicism, in the form of the Church of England, which was equally dogmatic with the Protestant flavor.

 

In my opinion, the United States was populated by Christians at it's inception, and, further, this wasn't disputed by the "founding fathers."  Slavery was accepted within the precepts of the Christian bible.  Women were relegated to no role, again, within the precepts of the Christian bible. 

 

My argument therefore is, that the United States is in fact founded upon Christian principles.  It can't be argued that Jewish, Islamic, Buddhist...etc., etc., guided the young nation.

 

Thoughts?

[MOHO]

Bedouin,

We've all experienced the claim of separation between church and state in some form or another. Many of us had it drilled into us beginning in grade school and continuing in the public school system.

 

According to all about history dot org ( http://www.allabouthistory.org/separation-of-church-and-state.htm ) there is no official verbiage in the constitution specifically building a wall between government and people's beliefs but, according to the aforementioned article it does say...

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

 

Also in the article Thomas Jefferson wrote a letter to the Danbury Baptists mentioning a wall of separation. In addition many came here from Jolly Old England seeking refuge from persecution for their religious beliefs that were not in line with the Church of England. Still further in order to get the document signed, and a nation declared, certain concessions had to be made and certain topics ignored.

 

It is my opinion, from consuming numerous writings on the topic of getting America's original pioneers to agree on stuff, that basing our constitution on xanity, or any religion, was touched upon - then tabled. I'm thinking both sides of this argument felt they could win out after several years of politicking.

 

I think this is why there is much debate over church and state but, most recently, legislation and court decisions have upheld the separation.

 

As far as who founded the nation goes - I guess one could say Quakers from England had a huge hand in it. But things change. Often for the better!

 

 

 

 

 

[Geezer]

I think the most that can be said is that Christianity is currently the dominant religion in the United States. I don't think it would be accurate to say the United States is a Christian nation though. 

[Wertbag]

I think you would have to define what a Christian nation even is.  You mention tenants of the bible such as slavery and the suppression of women, but those values are not solely Christian, with both of those things practiced throughout the world.  The 10 commandments stated rules already laid down and in use prior to the bible, the holidays and traditions all appear to have been blended with pagan and other religions.

So what is distinctly Christian about any Western country?  If Christianity is not state supported, not recognised as the state religion and not given preference over other religions then why should it be considered special?

Democracy exists without Christianity, human rights and morals exist without Christianity, laws and punishment exist...  So yes you can say the majority of the population are Christian, but I don't see anything new or original that it brings that would shape a country. 

[sdelsolray]

6 hours ago, Bedouin said:

...

My argument therefore is, that the United States is in fact founded upon Christian principles.  It can't be argued that Jewish, Islamic, Buddhist...etc., etc., guided the young nation.

 

Thoughts?

 

You apparently assume (in your argument) that the Christian religion has "principles" that (i) the other religions you mention do not have and (ii) are exclusive to the Christian religion.

 

Please demonstrate those assumed premises with actual evidence.

 

Thank you.

[L.B.]

Short answer: Yes.

 

Slightly longer answer: If by "Christian nation" you mean that the white male elite who run our country behind the scenes you see on TV happen to be self-professed 'evangelical Christians', almost to a man, then yes.

 

If you think that the religio-political worldview of a bunch of selfish billionaire warmongers has any validity, spiritually speaking, because of their obvious ascendancy, you're fooling yourself.

 

The would-be emperors of today are the Constantines of old - using a religion (a superstition mixed with socio-political influence) to maintain control while still keeping up the appearance of being your "brother".

[Tsathoggua9]

I don't think that the nation was founded on "Christian principles" -- it would be more accurate to say that it was founded on "Enlightenment principles".

Nevertheless, most of the population subscribed to some sort of Christian beliefs....

[Bedouin]

13 hours ago, sdelsolray said:

 

You apparently assume (in your argument) that the Christian religion has "principles" that (i) the other religions you mention do not have and (ii) are exclusive to the Christian religion.

 

Please demonstrate those assumed premises with actual evidence.

 

Thank you.

 

sdelsolray, you are of course correct.  Perhaps my use of the word "principles" was a bit misguided.  It's true that the tenets of Christianity are duplicated in the other two major religions, and many that preceded them.

 

Nevertheless, in the US, Christians claim the right to legislate based upon their particular views, citing that the nation was founded by and for Christians.  Europe seems to have moved away from religious legislation, as have, I think, Canada and Australia.  Only the US appears to hanging onto religion as a guiding principle (aside from some of the Islamic middle-eastern nations).

 

Today, for instance, is the "national day of prayer," here, and the current occupant of the white house intends to sign an executive order allowing Christians to participate in the denial of rights and services to those that are perceived as living a lifestyle contrary to their views as acceptable behavior, as well as allowing churches to expressly comment on political matters without fear of losing tax-exempt status.

 

The US was founded by those that hated the fact that they had to pay the Crown for their hard work, forced to sell their goods at whatever price the British decided they wanted to pay.  Religion was a distant second...in my opinion.  So, why, now, are so many convinced that Christianity is the state religion?

[florduh]

I thought the Jews were supposed to be in charge of everything. Damn. Learn something new every day!

[Vigile]

If by xian principles you are referring to slavery, then maybe you could make a case, but the Bill of Rights, the Constitution, etc... were founded on the principles of the Enlightenment, which was a clean break from the dark xian ages. 

[Vigile]

4 hours ago, florduh said:

I thought the Jews were supposed to be in charge of everything. Damn. Learn something new every day!

 

It's actually not the Jews, but Satan, that devious warlock. 

 

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/post/rick-wiles-trump-is-being-blackmailed-to-do-the-bidding-of-the-satanic-dark-state/

 

Trump Is Being Blackmailed To Do The Bidding Of The Satanic ‘Dark State’

[★ Citsonga ★]

 

Here is an interesting piece with several valid points that surprisingly comes from FoxNews:

 

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2015/03/05/america-is-not-christian-nation.html