whitecloud

Fact or fiction

16 posts in this topic

How do Christians know they are saved, when they only have faith they are saved?

 

They don't know it as fact, they only believe they are saved. That's not the same as knowing something by evidence.

 

Hmm, weird.

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This always bothered me as well. It's like, well, technically you can never know FOR CERTAIN until you get "there."  It was just infuriating to wrap my head around, even without considering how each of the thousands of Christian sects is "the only true one."

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Belief and faith is, sadly, more convincing than actual facts.

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How do Christians know they are saved, when they only have faith they are saved?

 

They don't know it as fact, they only believe they are saved. That's not the same as knowing something by evidence.

 

Hmm, weird.

 

Christians do not "know" (in a gnostic sense) they are saved.  That's basic epistemology 101.  However, many theists pretend they know. They conflate and/or equate belief with knowledge.

 

The same applies elsewhere.  Collection of evidence does not necessarily lead to "knowing" either.  For example, I claim to know that evolution occurs (change in allele frequencies in populations over time) but I do not claim to "know" that the biological theory of evolution (or any scientific theory) is completely correct.

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This always bothered me as well. It's like, well, technically you can never know FOR CERTAIN until you get "there."  It was just infuriating to wrap my head around, even without considering how each of the thousands of Christian sects is "the only true one."

Yes, that's the mental dilemma I was demonstrating. I never knew knew I was saved, but had to hold fast to the belief it was saved.

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Belief and faith is, sadly, more convincing than actual facts.

Yes, that is sad.

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Christians do not "know" (in a gnostic sense) they are saved.  That's basic epistemology 101.  However, many theists pretend they know. They conflate and/or equate belief with knowledge.

 

The same applies elsewhere.  Collection of evidence does not necessarily lead to "knowing" either.  For example, I claim to know that evolution occurs (change in allele frequencies in populations over time) but I do not claim to "know" that the biological theory of evolution (or any scientific theory) is completely correct.

I understand that, that makes the faith argument worse.

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Narcissism.

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How do Christians know they are saved, when they only have faith they are saved?

 

They don't know it as fact, they only believe they are saved. That's not the same as knowing something by evidence.

 

Hmm, weird.

 

They don't know. They are pretending to know what they don't know.

 

To know you are saved you have to know that God is real, that Jesus was his son/himself and that you were predestined to be saved. That level of knowledge is god-like.

 

People are not really honest - they don't know, they only really really really believe.

 

In contrast I know gravity is real. When you can demonstrate god like you can demonstrate gravity then you will know god exists.

 

But for creationists it gets worse, much worse. Not only do they know they are saved, they reject all reality in favour of 'knowing' the world was created 6,000 years ago.

 

Here's the danger: Once you can reject obvious reality, then you can reject, in favour of the bible, any subject or issue of the day. You try to tell them facts and you keep getting a 404 error.

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I understand that, that makes the faith argument worse.

Religious faith is for cowards, the willfully ignorant, intellectual sloths, those with delusions of self-importance and/or those with emotional dysfunctions.

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^That about sums it up...

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They don't know. They are pretending to know what they don't know.

 

To know you are saved you have to know that God is real, that Jesus was his son/himself and that you were predestined to be saved. That level of knowledge is god-like.

 

People are not really honest - they don't know, they only really really really believe.

 

In contrast I know gravity is real. When you can demonstrate god like you can demonstrate gravity then you will know god exists.

And some really believe to the power of 10.

 

Makes no difference, he he he.

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Religious faith is for cowards, the willfully ignorant, intellectual sloths, those with delusions of self-importance and/or those with emotional dysfunctions.

Damn straight!

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They don't know. They are pretending to know what they don't know.

 

I wouldn't call it pretending. Well, I don't doubt that some pretend, but pretending means they know that they don't know but lie about it, which I strongly suspect is not the case for most of them. They're not pretending; they're simply brainwashed.

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I wouldn't call it pretending. Well, I don't doubt that some pretend, but pretending means they know that they don't know but lie about it, which I strongly suspect is not the case for most of them. They're not pretending; they're simply brainwashed.

 

Ok how about this: They don't know. They are deluded into thinking they know what they don't know.

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Ok how about this: They don't know. They are deluded into thinking they know what they don't know.

Yeah, that's a good one: Let me try.

 

What they believe, they think they know, and what they think they know is never enough to stop believing. 

 

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