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Goodbye Jesus

Born-Again Christian who can think


Sight

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Hello everyone. Straight to the point...

I'm not here to share the gospel. I'm not here to talk Jesus.

Truth be told...I dont even care.

 

Why am I here?

Well, long story short:

 

- I've been banned from FOUR Christian Forums/Chatrooms.

- Most Christians, at least most online, are a bunch of idiots who dont know anything.

- There is only ONE question I had to ask, and NOT ONE CHRISTIAN BELIEVER could answer it:

 

Why do some Christians have tons of blessings and bear lots of fruit, and why do most Christians have no blessings, and bear NO fruit?

 

This is what I come here to seek. I want the OTHER SIDES opinion.

Again, I am not your typical Christian. I am a THINKING man...a lateral thinker...outside the box...the Christian you always HOPED to learn from.

 

What I hope...is that most of you arent dirt poor, broke, or in the same hole I am in. I am looking for successful individuals who have achieved some level of success in life. Being in a non-Christian environment, I expect that percentage to exponentionally increase.

 

That said, I hope our time together is productive.

Thank you.

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Hello Sight

 

Welcome to Ex-C.

 

May I suggest posting your question in General Christian Theological Issues?

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/forum/12-general-christian-theological-issues/

 

Then we can get right on in. I would suggest defining "blessings" and "fruit" from the outset so we have agreed upon understandings of what is being discussed.

 

LF

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Yes, please define "blessings" and "fruit".

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I forget this is a different foray for me. I also noticed I have a nice, bright Christian Believer badge under my name. Beautiful.

 

"Blessings" can be defined as instances of good fortune, reward, unmerited favor, bonuses, or general favoritism on the part of spiritual or metaphysical influence outside the means of physical labor.

 

"Fruit" is simply what one bears as a result of their character and efforts. Good character/efforts bears good fruit, bad character/efforts bears bad fruit.

 

While Christianity has its clarity on the subject, I speak in terms of metaphysics, which transcends all faiths.

 

Quite simply, I seek the truth. Christians are too stupid to explain the truth. I require collaboration with a different perspective to get closer to it.

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Quite simply, I seek the truth. Christians are too stupid to explain the truth. I require collaboration with a different perspective to get closer to it.

 

Define "truth" Or if you care to read BAA's post here, or the whole thread. You might find that the idea of truth is not so simple.

 

 

I take it when you say "Christians are too stupid to explain the truth" you are excluding yourself from that statement despite the fact you are Christian?

 

Do you believe the bible to be "true"? Because if we differ on that then our respective truths are not going to agree with each other.

 

PS, really rather than responding to me here in introductions you should open the topic in General Christian Theological Issues along with your definitions above or else this intro thread is going to turn into a discussion thread.

 

Alternately you can request mods shift the entire thread to General Christian Theological Issues.

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OK.

 

Thank you

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The simple answer to your original question is that historical evidence validates that God, Jesus, The Bible & Christianity all have human origins. The Bible is a collection of theological myths, Jesus is a fictional character in a fictional story, & the Roman's are responsible for the survival of Christianity.

 

I can refer you to a host of religious scholars & their books or you can watch a 2 hour YouTube video The Secret History of the Bible.

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The simple answer to your original question is that historical evidence validates that God, Jesus, The Bible & Christianity all have human origins. The Bible is a collection of theological myths, Jesus is a fictional character in a fictional story, & the Roman's are responsible for the survival of Christianity.

 

I can refer you to a host of religious scholars & their books or you can watch a 2 hour YouTube video The Secret History of the Bible.

 

Yes please. Thank you!

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...

"Blessings" can be defined as instances of good fortune, reward, unmerited favor, bonuses, or general favoritism on the part of spiritual or metaphysical influence outside the means of physical labor.

...

 

Can you provide evidence of these "spiritual or metaphysical influence(s)" which are causally linked to "good fortune, reward, unmerited favor, bonuses, or general favoritism"? 
  
Are there cases where "good fortune, reward, unmerited favor, bonuses, or general favoritism" have explanations causally linked to something other than spiritual or metaphysical influence or physical labor, such as favoritism, tribalism, lottery choice, economic influences or employment contracts?

 

 

...
"Fruit" is simply what one bears as a result of their character and efforts. Good character/efforts bears good fruit, bad character/efforts bears bad fruit.
... 

Using the word you are trying to define within the definition itself is usually not helpful.  Here, you are using the word "fruit" to define the word "fruit".
 
Is it possible for someone with good character who expends good effort to cause harm, damage, suffering or calamity?  For example, say someone with good character is driving his/her car taking donations to a local charity but has a car accident causing injury to others.  What kind of fruit is that?

 

 

...
I speak in terms of metaphysics, which transcends all faiths.
... 

Says you.

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Yes please. Thank you!

 

Scholars I'd recommend would be Bart Ehrman, Robert M. Price, & David Fitzgerald. Their books are on Amazon & come in kindle additions. There are many more but those 3 have written enough to books to keep you busy for quite awhile.

 

And the video I referenced is worth 2 hours of your time. 

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Scholars I'd recommend would be Bart Ehrman, Robert M. Price, & David Fitzgerald. Their books are on Amazon & come in kindle additions. There are many more but those 3 have written enough to books to keep you busy for quite awhile.

 

And the video I referenced is worth 2 hours of your time. 

 

I will check them out.

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Scholars I'd recommend would be Bart Ehrman, Robert M. Price, & David Fitzgerald. Their books are on Amazon & come in kindle additions. There are many more but those 3 have written enough to books to keep you busy for quite awhile.

 

And the video I referenced is worth 2 hours of your time. 

Thank you. I, too, will see about this video myself.

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Thank you. I, too, will see about this video myself.

 

The video is linked in the General Christian Theological Issues, in the topic Secret History of the Bible

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"Why do some Christians have tons of blessings and bear lots of fruit, and why do most Christians have no blessings, and bear NO fruit?"

 

I'm no genius, but I think there is a simple and obvious answer to that.

 

We live in a random universe, people get what they get and not what they deserve. Christians and everyone else will sometimes find themselves catching a break, at other times not so much.

 

Bottom line, there is no magic and everyone has the same chance to reap good and bad.

 

That said, obviously one can take steps to reach a goal and improve the odds of success. One can also screw the pooch and very likely end up treading water in a cesspool.

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Well I can tell you the whole time I was "backsliding" and trying to answer the questions I had, I have been "blessed". When I was in the church it felt like there was an obstacle at every turn. I was on the verge of divorce and struggling to get by. Also felt like I was walking on eggshells in the church. I left the church, my wife and I grew closer while we were dabbling in what the world had to offer, (going to bars, drinking occasionally, we both started cussing, etc, even smoked a little reefer but my job drug tests so I stick with the alcohol occasionally on days off.) While I've been doing ALL of that I have moved to a job paying almost 7 dollars more on the hour than I was making, my wife and i have grown closer like I said before, I'm living in a nicer house, it seems like everything has just fallen into my lap almost. 

     Now I've deconverted and no longer believe in bible God. There have been no lightning bolts to strike my house, no plagues, God isn't chastising me, and he hasn't, made much of an effort to get me back. Therefore I am certain that their must be two possibilities. 

 

1. The God of the bible was orchestrated to keep mankind in check so that the governing powers could rule their people in the mind and not only by brute force. It is far less expensive and far easier to create a myth that people believe in to the point that they will not question you through fear of eternal damnation. They effectively brainwashed the world into governing themselves.

 

Or

 

2. If there is a God he doesn't like me and doesn't want me on his team. so he made my life hard while I was in church and is giving me blessing now that I'm out because this is what he wants me to do. That way he can make the devil poke me with a pitchfork while I roast in hell for all eternity....... (I think that makes him a sadist right?)

 

I'm leaning more to option 1 but you know to each there own. Lol

 

Best Regards,

 Dark Bishop 

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To keep those in check is absolutely right. The use of a fictitious being was noticeable after my own time of moving through the book of what I once believed, and is what can be seen as of current lacks any signs of change. In fact, the usage of God most will truly use as that common excuse in why things have come up, the book of First Timothy on a person suffering alongside God. .but with what achievements? My father gave me this verse that I mentioned previously though as devoted as he'd kept himself. .no one should hear words uttered like being on the 'struggle bus'. Your tithes are paid, you have your family, you're pointlessly shutting in while pacing back and forth overnight in church to pray in hopes that things change; not knowing that it's a natural thing as anyone with common sense would soon realize once they've grasped themselves in seeing who they are.

 

We live in a random universe, people get what they get and not what they deserve. Christians and everyone else will sometimes find themselves catching a break, at other times not so much.

Self credibility becomes very poor because of that strengthened source of indoctrination no matter how many times church is attended or whom they're listening to be it podcasts or anyone religious so very much is this agreeable which could also tie into why 'Prayer Changes Things' can be seen. Ridiculous but it's. .what they believe yes? Each time are Christians placed on that counterbalance with us non-believers but forever will they deny what is often called 'claims' when in truth it's their losses on time.

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I recognize where you are because I was there about 6 months ago, before I denounced Christianity. Unfortunately, "Christians are too stupid to answer...." was the beginning of the beginning for me. Not implying anything other than "priding yourself in rationality" usually takes a certain course. Welcome to our board! :)

 

Hopefully I'm understanding your question enough to give my two cents. Why do some Christians have tons of blessings and bear lots of fruit, and why do most Christians have no blessings, and bear NO fruit? My answer would be: "Your terminology is 'Christianese'" for the natural life course. It's hard to answer your question using your terminology when I no longer believe in endless "blessings" and "good fruit," consequences are just the result of your actions and life status. You have a test on Monday? Study. Or don't. Then suffer the consequences. If you get an "A" it's because you studied, not because the Lord blessed you. As for the fruit, as soon as I recognized that I didn't need a God to tell me that murder was wrong; that people can determine individually (and as a society) that it is wrong based on basic empathy and the desire to live peacefully and keep our species going, I was done. As a Christian, I was taught that I needed an objective morality that went beyond subjective morality, and this was "written on my heart." Then why do so many people go against what was "written on their hearts?" Is it "sin"? Or is it maybe that morality is socially constructed and that explains why third world cultures murder people just fine. If you study cultural psychology for 5 minutes, the social influence on morality is undeniable.

 

As a Christian, I was quick to assign "blessings" to something that probably was the result of choices I made. A Christian could look at a car accident and says "God spared me" or "God is testing my faith by allowing suffering." Or if they get a promotion at work, "The Lord has blessed me and answered my prayers." A Muslim may say the same of their deity, and so on. Someone who does not believe in a deity isn't going to see it as a blessing or the result of bad fruit, it's just "Shit happens" or "My hard work paid off." I did the time, got the job. I worked hard and reaped the "fruit" of my labor. I hope this makes sense. I no longer say "The Lord blessed me," it's just something that happened that I have to deal with. Are all of these people you know belonging to another similar demographic? Are "most Christians you know" of a similar social class, race, or location? Maybe they are trying to explain away the hand life dealt them.

 

Anyway, yeah. Read Bart Ehrman for SURE, his books have been life changing for me. I started with THIS ONE, but you can read any of his stuff. Watch Matt Dillahunty with "The Atheist Experience". Or Sam Harris or Christopher Hitchens or Richard Dawkins on Youtube. They might say things you disagree with sometimes (like your fellow Christians now), but their rationality is attractive to you for a reason. Sorry for the length of the post, I just kept going haha.

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Well I can tell you the whole time I was "backsliding" and trying to answer the questions I had, I have been "blessed". When I was in the church it felt like there was an obstacle at every turn. I was on the verge of divorce and struggling to get by. Also felt like I was walking on eggshells in the church. I left the church, my wife and I grew closer while we were dabbling in what the world had to offer, (going to bars, drinking occasionally, we both started cussing, etc, even smoked a little reefer but my job drug tests so I stick with the alcohol occasionally on days off.) While I've been doing ALL of that I have moved to a job paying almost 7 dollars more on the hour than I was making, my wife and i have grown closer like I said before, I'm living in a nicer house, it seems like everything has just fallen into my lap almost. 

     Now I've deconverted and no longer believe in bible God. There have been no lightning bolts to strike my house, no plagues, God isn't chastising me, and he hasn't, made much of an effort to get me back.

 

 

Don't you see?  Satan has clearly rewarded you with sinful pleasures and the illusion of happiness and safety, all the better to lure you further away from the protection of the Good Shepherd.

 

If, on the other hand, your deconversion had been accompanied by misery and bad fortune, that would have been clear evidence of the inevitable wages of sin and apostasy.

 

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Don't you see?  Satan has clearly rewarded you with sinful pleasures and the illusion of happiness and safety, all the better to lure you further away from the protection of the Good Shepherd.

 

If, on the other hand, your deconversion had been accompanied by misery and bad fortune, that would have been clear evidence of the inevitable wages of sin and apostasy.

 

 

Lol. I think I need to have a beer with the ole devil then. He has given me more than the other guy then. If only his church didn't have a bunch of weirdos in it lmao.

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It never made sense to me why a Christian would say "The Lord spared me from the tornado" or something like that. What about the innocent children who maybe were not spared?

 

The Bible does say, however, "For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust." (Matthew 5:45)

 

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So many questions but very little defenses.

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Hello everyone. Straight to the point...

I'm not here to share the gospel. I'm not here to talk Jesus.

Truth be told...I dont even care.

 

Why am I here?

Well, long story short:

 

- I've been banned from FOUR Christian Forums/Chatrooms.

- Most Christians, at least most online, are a bunch of idiots who dont know anything.

- There is only ONE question I had to ask, and NOT ONE CHRISTIAN BELIEVER could answer it:

 

Why do some Christians have tons of blessings and bear lots of fruit, and why do most Christians have no blessings, and bear NO fruit?

 

This is what I come here to seek. I want the OTHER SIDES opinion.

Again, I am not your typical Christian. I am a THINKING man...a lateral thinker...outside the box...the Christian you always HOPED to learn from.

 

What I hope...is that most of you arent dirt poor, broke, or in the same hole I am in. I am looking for successful individuals who have achieved some level of success in life. Being in a non-Christian environment, I expect that percentage to exponentionally increase.

 

That said, I hope our time together is productive.

Thank you.

I've got you beat by a long shot, but at least half the time I just asked to GET banned. There may be a few left that I've never joined and they are the very inactive ones.

 

MOST Christians are idiots, and most of them are rotten fruit.  I'm sick and tired of them condemning me for believing different.  I can't say I've ever made any friends on those forums because I typically disagree with their theology and eschatology, and they didn't like it when I would challenge and even debunk their views. I put time, research, and effort in my replies,  I just leave most forums with people who come back with one or two line sarcastic replies.  They're not worthy of my time so I leave.  If I told you my screen names I think you would recognize me.

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LoL how ironic. You don't like it when your bullshit is debunked either SMH. This guy.......

 

 

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LoL how ironic. You don't like it when your bullshit is debunked either SMH. This guy.......

 

 

Show me where I came across like a sarcastic ass?  And show me where I've been debunked by people who don't believe in prophecy or even know what a hermeneutic is!

 

 

 

 

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LoL how ironic. You don't like it when your bullshit is debunked either SMH. This guy.......

 

 

Besides that big guy.  I don't expect to last here.  I don't take a whole lot of shit from shit people and there's already enough shit in the neighborhood.

 

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