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Goodbye Jesus

Bypassing Jesus: How can a Christian succeed?


Sight

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I'm here for a certain reason. Unlike my Christian brothers and sisters, I question everything. I want to know why things work, and how they work.

 

Simply put, who is successful here, and how can I "succeed"? Where's the money; the restoration; the recovery?

 

At the same time, if I see that non-Christians have no answer like actual Christians, I may have to retreat and pull back.

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Goodbye Jesus
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Money? Restoration? Recovery? What are you talking about?

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Money? Restoration? Recovery? What are you talking about?

 

I forget this is not a Christian server.

 

Alright, rephrase: How does one bounce back from years of failures, attempts at winning, and general running-in-circles? How does one rise from failure to success?

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I'm here for a certain reason. Unlike my Christian brothers and sisters, I question everything. I want to know why things work, and how they work.

 

Simply put, who is successful here, and how can I "succeed"? Where's the money; the restoration; the recovery?

...

Education

Patience

Hard Work

Education

Healthy Eating

Exercise

Education

Hobbies

Family

Education

Sex

Relaxation

 

and then add Balance.

 

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Education

Patience

Hard Work

Education

Healthy Eating

Exercise

Education

Hobbies

Family

Education

Sex

Relaxation

 

and then add Balance

 

Indeed. This lines up with my experience. The patience is the tough part. I also worked harder than most...recently, have leveraged a temp agency to get better quality jobs, but it's been tough. I exercise,  and I read like an animal. (Now, did you mean education as in "degrees" or education as in "read books and listen to successful people?")

 

The sex...unfortunately...I am both a nerd and an asshole. Haven't broken ground yet. The lack of money doesn't help either.

 

What can a guy who has nothing do to get back everything?

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I suspect you have much more than you think you have, intellectually, emotionally and physically.

 

Plan the work and work the plan.

 

Again, what's your hurry?

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What can a guy who has nothing do to get back everything?

 

First I would do a personal SWOT analysis. You need to know what you are good at and what you can do. You won't get anywhere trying to do something you are shit at, even if you really love it. Example: I love music and singing. However I'm tuneless and can't sing to save myself. Going into the music industry won't work for regardless of my enthusiasm - this is a weakness. However I am good at numbers and logic - these are my strengths and creates an opportunity.

 

Regarding being a nerd - nothing wrong with that, and some things you can't change. Being a self confessed arsehole - I'd suggest working on that because that will hinder everything else you are trying to work on. No one likes arseholes.

 

Add to that lots of hard work and you should start getting life back.

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I suspect you have much more than you think you have, intellectually, emotionally and physically.

 

Plan the work and work the plan.

 

Again, what's your hurry?

 

Ambition. Desire. Passion. In person, I am a very passionate forceful man. I am full of fire. I am a bloodhound. I fight.

 

 

 

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First I would do a personal SWOT analysis. You need to know what you are good at and what you can do. You won't get anywhere trying to do something you are shit at, even if you really love it. Example: I love music and singing. However I'm tuneless and can't sing to save myself. Going into the music industry won't work for regardless of my enthusiasm - this is a weakness. However I am good at numbers and logic - these are my strengths and creates an opportunity.

 

Regarding being a nerd - nothing wrong with that, and some things you can't change. Being a self confessed arsehole - I'd suggest working on that because that will hinder everything else you are trying to work on. No one likes arseholes.

 

Add to that lots of hard work and you should start getting life back.

 

On it. I will do a SWOT.

 

I will also work on being an arsehole. I wasn't always one.

 

As for hard work, I can keep at it.

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Ambition. Desire. Passion. In person, I am a very passionate forceful man. I am full of fire. I am a bloodhound. I fight.

 

 

 

None of these traits, as admirable as they might be in some situations (but not others), answers my question, "What's your hurry"?

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None of these traits, as admirable as they might be in some situations (but not others), answers my question, "What's your hurry"?

 

I want it all now. As a 28 year old, I want to be free. I dream of being free...free from trading time for dollars, free from having to kiss up to a boss, free from trying to run in circles. I want total control of my life, on my terms.

 

In Christianity, this isn't possible. Many are called to lay down their life for Christ...that is, to give up the desires of self for the sake of accepting Jesus Christ and entering into relationship with him. While some can do that, some, like me, arent sold on it.

 

But to answer "What's my hurry?" ... great question, btw...no one ever asked me that...

I just want it all. I know it exists. I know people who HAVE IT. I want to be able to own it.

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I want it all now. As a 28 year old, I want to be free. I dream of being free...free from trading time for dollars, free from having to kiss up to a boss, free from trying to run in circles. I want total control of my life, on my terms.

 

In Christianity, this isn't possible. Many are called to lay down their life for Christ...that is, to give up the desires of self for the sake of accepting Jesus Christ and entering into relationship with him. While some can do that, some, like me, arent sold on it.

 

I just want it all. I know it exists. I know people who HAVE IT. I want to be able to own it.

 

Right. I'm going to have to be harsh here and tell you that you can't have it all now. What you can do is take steps to further your goals, but the only time you are truly free is when you are dead. Welcome to life!

 

So why don't you give up Christianity? What is there for you? You don't want to follow the tenants of Jesus anyway. Seems to me a bit pointless want to be free while at the same time surrendering your life to God. That's a bit paradoxical isn't it?

 

Why do you believe in God? I'd start there. Many of your major decisions will flow on based on if you believe in God or not, and if you have no good reason to believe in god then you have no good reason.

 

I take "it" is money, wealth, fame, fortune etc. People quite often get all that, they have all that, and the are as miserable as fuck and some commit suicide.

 

Most people who are successful didn't just get it all now. Not the self made success - the inherited successes are a different story. It's easy to make money if you are given millions from the start.

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Right. I'm going to have to be harsh here and tell you that you can't have it all now. What you can do is take steps to further your goals, but the only time you are truly free is when you are dead. Welcome to life!

 

So why don't you give up Christianity? What is there for you? You don't want to follow the tenants of Jesus anyway. Seems to me a bit pointless want to be free while at the same time surrendering your life to God. That's a bit paradoxical isn't it?

 

Why do you believe in God? I'd start there. Many of your major decisions will flow on based on if you believe in God or not, and if you have no good reason to believe in god then you have no good reason.

 

I take "it" is money, wealth, fame, fortune etc. People quite often get all that, they have all that, and the are as miserable as fuck and some commit suicide.

 

Most people who are successful didn't just get it all now. Not the self made success - the inherited successes are a different story. It's easy to make money if you are given millions from the start.

 

I understand. Life is an eternal struggle, Christian or not Christian. A quotation from Matthew 5:45 NASB - for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.

 

Interesting question...my whole aspect is to seek the truth. Indeed, the aspect of self vs God seems to be foreign. I had followed them in pursuit of the truth. The truth seems to be in the total denial of self. I may have said I was a "genius" of some sort in my intro thread, but in the end, we all die, and return to dust. I keep having faith, so to speak, because I feel, in my spirit, that I have not yet found the truth.

 

As to why I believe in God? I frankly do not have any concise, valid reason. I will not pretend to be a bible thumper (I never liked them)...it all comes down to truth. Something, or someone created life. To say God does not exist, in of itself, is a choice of belief, thus rendering Atheism a paradox. At the very least, Agnosticism should be the unbeliever's standard...there IS something out there, that is beyond justification of empirical evidence. Metaphysics...is what the nonbelievers would describe the study of the spiritual and temporal aspects of life.

 

But I reiterate...I am not here to spread the gospel, thump the bible, or convert anyone. You are here because you choose to believe what you believe, and I respect your choice. I have yet to fully reconcile my own perspectives.

 

I, myself, continue to believe, because of my desire for the absolute truth. True Christianity also acknowledges the historical books of Judaism, specifically the Torah (First five books of the Christian Old Testament) and the Tanakh (Rest of the Christian Old Testament). Islam is ridiculous, plain and simple. This, for me, leaves Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Mythology, Gnosticism, and the Mystic faiths as points of reference (For your consideration, you can say God doesn't exist, but LUCIFER/SATAN definitely does, and those of Satanic cults or Luciferian secret societies dominate all levels of government and business. Just a thought for consideration. I do not worship Lucifer/Satan).

 

INDEED, you are also right...people get money, wealth, and power, and hate their lives even more. As you say, so it is.

 

The only successes are self-made successes. The ones who inherited money...the trust fund babies and such...lose it in one to two generations, most of the time. You didn't hear it from me...but the Vanderbilts are an example of a family line that lost their wealth in three generations. 

 

 

So why am I here? I want a different opinion. To your defense, you all are smarter than 95% of most typical Christians. As another reminder, I was BANNED from four different Christian forums/chatsites, and I'm a born again Christian.

 

What do ex-christians and "alternate" believers view success as? 

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If the Christian definition of success is to become like Jesus, how can this be done by bypassing him?

 

 

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Something, or someone created life.

 

Are sure you are not simply appealing to a 'god did it' argument here? Our best scientific hypothesis at this point are pointing towards complex chemical reactions as the cause of life, not a prime mover existing beyond the cosmos.

 

 

 

 

To say God does not exist, in of itself, is a choice of belief, thus rendering Atheism a paradox. At the very least, Agnosticism should be the unbeliever's standard...there IS something out there, that is beyond justification of empirical evidence. Metaphysics...is what the nonbelievers would describe the study of the spiritual and temporal aspects of life.

 

There are many types of atheist - I'm an agnostic atheist by definition, but don't identify with the atheist movement due to the various problems associated with it. 

 

Saying there is something out there is an assertion that requires justification. Nothing has been found thus far.

 

Regarding choice of belief. Herein you are wrong. You don't choose to believe something. You either believe something or you don't. If you think you can simply choose your beliefs then try and choose to believe that a pink unicorn exists in your back yard. Try as you might, choose all you like, you don't truly believe that. The best you can do is make believe which is a dishonest position to hold. Note I used an absurd example to stress my point, however people can truly believe the most absurd things. That's doesn't mean they chose to believe them.

 

Peter Hitchens once asked in a debate "Why would you choose to believe in a purposeless chaos...? Peter Millican's reply was a gem:

 

 

 

 

 

But I reiterate...I am not here to spread the gospel, thump the bible, or convert anyone. You are here because you choose to believe what you believe, and I respect your choice. I have yet to fully reconcile my own perspectives.

 

Note we don't mind you bible thumping... we actually enjoy a good bible thumper at times :) 

 

Regarding choice of belief see my points above.

 

 

 

 

I, myself, continue to believe, because of my desire for the absolute truth. True Christianity also acknowledges the historical books of Judaism, specifically the Torah (First five books of the Christian Old Testament) and the Tanakh (Rest of the Christian Old Testament). Islam is ridiculous, plain and simple. This, for me, leaves Zoroastrianism, Hinduism, Mythology, Gnosticism, and the Mystic faiths as points of reference (For your consideration, you can say God doesn't exist, but LUCIFER/SATAN definitely does, and those of Satanic cults or Luciferian secret societies dominate all levels of government and business. Just a thought for consideration. I do not worship Lucifer/Satan).

 

I would say at a certain level all religions are ridiculous. And the historical books of the Torah are not very historical. There are many great resources on this subject if you are interested?

 

 

 

So why am I here? I want a different opinion. To your defense, you all are smarter than 95% of most typical Christians. As another reminder, I was BANNED from four different Christian forums/chatsites, and I'm a born again Christian.

 

The why's or wherefores of you being banned on other forums are of little concern here. So long as you follow the rules you are allowed to post here.

 

Are we necessarily smarter, or have we simply thrown off the yoke of ignorance and engaged our critical faculties to look for truth rather than simply swallowing what is told to us?

 

You keep repeating that you are a born again christian - we here are Ex-C. Why should it matter what kind of Christian you call yourself? You can't prove you are "born again", whatever that may mean to you. You no doubt have some tale to tell like every other 'born again' christian so realize from my point of view... and possibly others here being born again or not makes little difference to us. It's just a label Christians put on themselves because of words Jesus supposedly said. There's no general agreement on what born again is, or how to get born again. All we have a some vague words, purportedly of Jesus, written over 60 years after his death in a Gospel that is decidedly different from the rest.

 

 

What do ex-christians and "alternate" believers view success as? 

 

For me personally, success in its broadest sense is being content with your life. If you are content you have need of nothing, and you are at peace with yourself. Do I consider this some metaphysical spiritual statement? No, its simply a case of reaching a state of being.

 

PS BAA's question is pertinent and I find your thread title an oxymoron: A christian bypassing Jesus? Christianities entire foundation is Jesus. Take out the foundation and you have nothing.

 

However, I believe you can take the good bits out of Christianity and use them to inform your worldview. I see nothing wrong with that. So you could bypass both, but still retain the gems.

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To add to what LF said, I don't think there is any singular definition of success. What I consider successful in my life may not to another. You said you were ambitious, so my thoughts on success: roof over my head, bills paid, can afford luxaries if I want them, ample money in the bank, and seeing my retirement investments doing well - after struggling my entire life growing as a poor person, I made a conscious decision to make sure any future family I had would not have to go through what I did growing up. 

 

But that is only what I consider successful. For an ambitious person, that may only be considered being content and not "grabbing life by the horns" as they say. 

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Perhaps delving into some Alan Watts might put you on a path to contentment.

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Sight,

 

Could you please provide links to the four Christian forums/chatsites you were banned from and also declare the identities/user names you operated under in them?

 

I ask because rather than just accepting the above from you on faith, I'd like to verify your claim with evidence.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

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Sight, as another 20-something who is working hard towards success, I need to say sometimes life just isn't fair. Sometimes people who work hard don't reap rewards, sometimes you can do your best and still get knocked on your fucking ass. There's not a set outcome and you can't just do x and y to reach z. Sometimes you're going to be poor and at rock bottom and scraping to get by. It's not God's will, it's just the way it is.

 

That said, I don't think you can reach success on your own. For me it's being able to provide for someone who I love and cherish with all my heart so she doesn't have to work. She's my motivation and inspiration and that keeps me going. But it's not just her, I have other people who help me too. No one is successful without a network of people who have helped them in other ways. You might be able to have that by not being an asshole ;) 

 

Bottom line is you need to break out on your own and start defining success for yourself and then working towards that. You may or may not get there but it's a lot easier once you have that.

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You know what...forget you guys.

 

I dont need to prove anything to you. Dont worry about who I am and where I come from. 

 

I dont need to do ANYTHING for you. I dont need to cowtow to you. I dont need to report to you. If you're all going to approach me with a "better than you" attitude, then terminate my account now. I came here to find out information from YOU ALL. I dont need to answer to ANY of you.

 

We're done here folks.

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Quod gratis asseritur, gratis negatur.

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If you're all going to approach me with a "better than you" attitude

 

I haven't seen anyone do that here. Perhaps you're being overly sensitive to people simply not agreeing with your religion?

 

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You know what...forget you guys.

 

I dont need to prove anything to you. Dont worry about who I am and where I come from. 

 

I dont need to do ANYTHING for you. I dont need to cowtow to you. I dont need to report to you. If you're all going to approach me with a "better than you" attitude, then terminate my account now. I came here to find out information from YOU ALL. I dont need to answer to ANY of you.

 

We're done here folks.

Fine by me. We already have more than our fair share of geniuses here already.

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I forget this is not a Christian server.

 

Alright, rephrase: How does one bounce back from years of failures, attempts at winning, and general running-in-circles? How does one rise from failure to success?

 

First you'll have to define failure, success, winning, etc. These terms mean different things to different people, and what one person might consider success another might think is a failure. 

 

Until everyone understands your definition for those terms, your question is fairly meaningless.

 

"I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." -- Thomas A. Edison
 

 

  

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You know what...forget you guys.

 

I dont need to prove anything to you. Dont worry about who I am and where I come from. 

 

I dont need to do ANYTHING for you. I dont need to cowtow to you. I dont need to report to you. If you're all going to approach me with a "better than you" attitude, then terminate my account now. I came here to find out information from YOU ALL. I dont need to answer to ANY of you.

 

We're done here folks.

 

Tough guy.

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