Why Do I Care?

[ag_NO_stic]

Hello, fellow ex-Christians. I just joined yesterday, but I've been creeping on the site for awhile as an anonymous reader and giving a lot of thought to various posts and testimonies I've read on here. Finally decided that if so many people are coming through on the other side of this after being actively vulnerable to people, might be my turn. I've already typed this question a few times and it didn't seem right, I can't seem to get into words what I'm trying to ask.

 

Anyway, my question is so simple and yet it feels so complex. I can acknowledge that there are so many factors that influence how I was essentially duped into believing for so long. Parental upbringing, society and everyone around me believing, the placebo effect and emotional neurotransmitters with regard to God's presence and prayer, fear of hell, confirmation bias, etc....I can answer the rationality question easily when others ask why I don't believe. So I want to know what I care so much? When Christians ask me why I have so much emotion behind this deconversion process, I honestly have no idea what to say. I don't know how to explain my passion for overcoming Christianity, or to explain why I feel such a deep sense of empathy for others when it, ultimately, should be a superficial recognition that I need social relationships to move forward biologically.

 

Why do I care whether or not God exists? Why do I care about feeling sure of what I believe? Why do I fly into such a state of bitterness when the topic of God comes up? My fundamentalist mother will say things like "It sounds like you're just fighting him" or "looks like you've still got some faith issues to work out" or whatever. Why do I care so much about other people if, scientifically, I should want natural selection to succeed with flying colors? As a Christian, I often used the whole "God has written his code of morality on your hearts" line. So where does my deep sense of injustice on other people's behalf come from? If it's truly just social conditioning, why does it feel so real in the deepest parts of me? Why do I still care about abortion and human life, why do I care if someone of a different race than me is the object of racism....Why do I want to be so over the top kind to other human beings if there isn't some greater.....thing out there?

 

Any thoughts appreciated, I feel so lost. "Just being happy" can't be it, that feels so pointless and superficial.

[Jeff]

Empathy doesnt require a deity or morality. 

Just self awareness and being able to put youself in their shoes mentally.

 

[TABA]

Welcome to our community, ag_NO_stic!  I'm glad you decided to reveal yourself to us: we have strength in numbers!  Of course it's also very typical to "lurk" for a while before announcing yourself; we pretty much all did that for a while in the beginning.

 

I'll take a stab at answering your questions, though it's not in my nature to be as concise as Jeff!

 

Why do we feel so strongly when we deconvert?  Why do we feel so strongly about a god that we don't believe exists, as Christians like to ask us?  Well, when you've believed in that god for decades, and believed that everything in life revolves around that god, and then you conclude it's not true, that is a Big Hairy Deal.  Especially if you were indoctrinated into that belief as a child (as I was), it is natural to feel strongly about it when the indoctrination starts to lose control of your mind and you realize the enormity of it.  Even if that indoctrination was done with the best, most loving will in the world, it is only natural to feel some degree of anger at the way your mind was manipulated.  Our minds, our brains, were 'hacked' by religious indoctrination.  I can say that for most of us though, the initial anger gives way to relief as we feel our minds emerging from the fog of faith, from the false 'knowledge' that was implanted in them.

 

As for why we care about others, as a species we evolved a sense of empathy with others, not just with other humans but often with non-human animals too.  We often make sacrifices, not just for our kin, but for strangers whose suffering we share in some way.  Other advanced species, like elephants, whales and dogs, seem to share this empathy.  Humans are capable of great compassion and great cruelty (both of which are often expressed as doing the will of a god).  As a species we are neither inherently good nor inherently evil.  We just are where evolution brought us, just as whales ended up with finger bones inside their fins and with vestigial leg bones buried inside their bodies.   

 

So I hope I kind of answered the questions you asked.  Even if I didn't, I do want you to feel welcome here and I hope you will be an active part of our community!

 

All the Best,

TABA

[ag_NO_stic]

 

 

I'll take a stab at answering your questions, though it's not in my nature to be as concise as Jeff!

 

 

Ha! I didn't ask very concisely, so it's a bit of a moot point. 

 

 

 I can say that for most of us though, the initial anger gives way to relief as we feel our minds emerging from the fog of faith, from the false 'knowledge' that was implanted in them.

 

This gives me a lot of hope. It's really easy to get really down about how much I'm disappointing my family. Knowing that the anger begins to dissipate is comforting. Are you ever taken seriously? Like, has your family accepted that you're not coming back? Because I know this is so much different than all the other times  I "doubted." I get "God is using this to grow you" constantly...

[florduh]

Welcome to Ex-C.

 

Many people wrestle with the paradox of not believing yet being emotionally manipulated by "God stuff." Why would we care?

 

Well, it's quite settled for me regarding the nonexistence of Biblegod. What DOES exist is an army of believers who want to force feed me and you their thousands of versions of Christianity. I don't argue against or despise some being who doesn't exist, but sometimes I must take on the very real believers trying to make all our lives miserable. Illegitimi non carborundum.

[Margee]

Welcome to Ex-c ag_NO_stic. So glad you decided to join us! You sound like you've always been a caring person. 'Over-caring' can be really hard on those of us who don't want to hurt anyone. It was really hard on me when I got a lot of rejection from the church when I left. I didn't want to feel like an outcast, but I did. I was disagreeing (with the doctrine) and when you disagree with people, sometimes it doesn't go over very good. You hang in there. Sometimes we just have to ''let go with love'' and get on with our new journey. Deconverting was the thing that helped me the most with people pleasing. Today, I find it to be the biggest freedom in the world not having to have everyone's approval.

 

Looking forward to hearing more from you!

 

((hug))

[★ Citsonga ★]

 

It's really easy to get really down about how much I'm disappointing my family.

 

You are not the source of their disappointment. Their disappointment stems from their own expectations of you. Don't beat yourself up over their expectations. There's nothing wrong with you arriving at your own conclusions and just genuinely being yourself. After all, you are the best you that you will ever have.  

 

[ag_NO_stic]

 

Well, it's quite settled for me regarding the nonexistence of Biblegod. What DOES exist is an army of believers who want to force feed me and you their thousands of versions of Christianity. I don't argue against or despise some being who doesn't exist, but sometimes I must take on the very real believers trying to make all our lives miserable. Illegitimi non carborundum.

 

You do have a point, the anger is definitely directed at people who are condescending with what I've decided to believe and who look at being reasonable and rational as "thinking highly of myself, being selfish, and prideful." I had to google the Latin, haha. I'll try to keep that in mind, that's awesome. 

 

 

Welcome to Ex-c ag_NO_stic. So glad you decided to join us! You sound like you've always been a caring person. 'Over-caring' can be really hard on those of us who don't want to hurt anyone. It was really hard on me when I got a lot of rejection from the church when I left. I didn't want to feel like an outcast, but I did. I was disagreeing (with the doctrine) and when you disagree with people, sometimes it doesn't go over very good. You hang in there. Sometimes we just have to ''let go with love'' and get on with our new journey. Deconverting was the thing that helped me the most with people pleasing. Today, I find it to be the biggest freedom in the world not having to have everyone's approval.

 

Looking forward to hearing more from you!

 

((hug))

 

I'm experiencing a lot of hurt too, but I'm not getting rejection yet because people still think God will bring me back and that he's using this as a test for my faith. So they are nice because they are hopeful and "investing" in me. I guess we'll see what happens as time passes and things don't change. I'll be interested to see if my people pleasing tendencies get better with this process. Also ((hug)) 

 

 

 

You are not the source of their disappointment. Their disappointment stems from their own expectations of you. Don't beat yourself up over their expectations. There's nothing wrong with you arriving at your own conclusions and just genuinely being yourself. After all, you are the best you that you will ever have.  

 

 

I hear what you're saying, it is on them. I just hate that I am at complete peace with my "soul" and they have to deal with fear on my behalf. I care about my family, I hate what it's doing to them. I just can't ever go back, my eyes have been opened.

[♦ Fuego ♦]

It is one of my greatest frustrations to watch some of my family stubbornly fundamentalist and intent on making their kids even more so. Having been where they are and now being out, I want to see them all find this freedom. But the bro-in-law comes from generations of very stubborn people and it shows in his belief. He will do it because it is The Way that has been laid out for him. I know that he's seen things that disturb him, but he seals them off. I know he has doubts, all believers do. I honestly don't know what he would be without the faith since it defines his life. But... he deserves freedom like the rest of us. He deserves, and his family deserves to not have a lie pushed on them constantly, telling them that being human is bad, that being normal is evil. So I feel anger towards the faith and towards their unbending fundy mindset that is defining their kid's lives. I think that is a normal emotion.

 

When believers act condescendingly to me, they get as clear a truth-blow as I can deliver. I want to plant seeds that will find roots in their doubts and spring to life eventually. I don't want to behave angrily toward ANY of them, because that turns them off (as it would anyone). I want to deliver the reality that their imaginary friend is no more real than Thor or Zeus or Spiderman, and that their results back up that reality. I long for them to question honestly and not settle for bullshit excuses. God made promises, but fails to keep them. Why? Why do we say that we have an intimate relationship with someone who never speaks or intervenes? On and on and on...

[ag_NO_stic]

 

It is one of my greatest frustrations to watch some of my family stubbornly fundamentalist and intent on making their kids even more so. Having been where they are and now being out, I want to see them all find this freedom....... he deserves freedom like the rest of us. He deserves, and his family deserves to not have a lie pushed on them constantly, telling them that being human is bad, that being normal is evil. So I feel anger towards the faith and towards their unbending fundy mindset that is defining their kid's lives. I think that is a normal emotion.

 

This is also true. I think it's SO frustrating to consider how they are viewing me for trying to be rational. I'm trying not to get angry, I don't want to turn them off....I just don't understand why they would worship a being that is bragging about casting me into eternal torment. 

[Margee]

 

 

This is also true. I think it's SO frustrating to consider how they are viewing me for trying to be rational. I'm trying not to get angry, I don't want to turn them off....I just don't understand why they would worship a being that is bragging about casting me into eternal torment. 

 

Because they don't see you as being 'rational' hon. They see you as being rebellious or 'blinded by the devil' and are angry that you won't open your eyes to this. When I finally told the pastors wife that I was a non-believer (she had been my friend for many, many years) she blatantly told me that I was purposely choosing to go to hell after 'knowing the truth'. Of course our friendship ended over this. This is how brainwashed people are. That's what you have to recognize. 9/10, it's a no-win situation.

 

((hug))

[ag_NO_stic]

 

 

Because they don't see you as being 'rational' hon. They see you as being rebellious or 'blinded by the devil' and are angry that you won't open your eyes to this. When I finally told the pastors wife that I was a non-believer (she had been my friend for many, many years) she blatantly told me that I was purposely choosing to go to hell after 'knowing the truth'. Of course our friendship ended over this. This is how brainwashed people are. That's what you have to recognize. 9/10, it's a no-win situation.

 

((hug))

 

I'm sorry I'm so late in responding to you, I definitely overlooked your response somehow. I hear what you're saying, I just have a teeny bit of hope since I used to be there and believe that. They used to love telling me: "Ever since you were a baby you've questioned things, like "why does a green light mean go and not red, you just have to come to terms with not having the answers." As if I was some kind of anomaly. One can hope they'll see it.

 

((double hug))

[★ Citsonga ★]

 

It is one of my greatest frustrations to watch some of my family stubbornly fundamentalist and intent on making their kids even more so. Having been where they are and now being out, I want to see them all find this freedom. But the bro-in-law comes from generations of very stubborn people and it shows in his belief. He will do it because it is The Way that has been laid out for him. I know that he's seen things that disturb him, but he seals them off. I know he has doubts, all believers do. I honestly don't know what he would be without the faith since it defines his life. But... he deserves freedom like the rest of us. He deserves, and his family deserves to not have a lie pushed on them constantly, telling them that being human is bad, that being normal is evil. So I feel anger towards the faith and towards their unbending fundy mindset that is defining their kid's lives. I think that is a normal emotion.

 

When believers act condescendingly to me, they get as clear a truth-blow as I can deliver. I want to plant seeds that will find roots in their doubts and spring to life eventually. I don't want to behave angrily toward ANY of them, because that turns them off (as it would anyone). I want to deliver the reality that their imaginary friend is no more real than Thor or Zeus or Spiderman, and that their results back up that reality. I long for them to question honestly and not settle for bullshit excuses. God made promises, but fails to keep them. Why? Why do we say that we have an intimate relationship with someone who never speaks or intervenes? On and on and on...

 

Not all believers have doubts, unfortunately. Otherwise, great post.