Same Sob Story, New Protagonist....but babies?

[ag_NO_stic]

Well. I'm looking at a blank blog post and it's seriously so overwhelming because they are so many different ways to start. I guess we'll go with "Once Upon a Time."

 

Once Upon a Time, my story started off like all flying spaghetti monster stories do. Grew up in the church, actually gave a shit about it and wanted to really live out and be able to defend what I believed. Followed the bread crumb trail towards truth straight down the rabbit hole, and here I am. It's the same thing you've read over and over. Niggling doubts for years and years, but I berated myself for my doubts and tried to be more fervent in prayers, more diligent in my "fruit of the Spirit tending," blah blah blah. Enter Matt Dillahunty and Dr. Ehrman. No way I can go back now, my eyes have been opened and I feel like the biggest fool on the planet for my wasted life thus far.

 

So now we come to family. It's the post I'm seeing over and over on this site as I browse through the pages. I could give you the "coming out" story to my parents, but who needs that drama. Fast forward to my marriage. Y'all, I seriously want to cry right now. I was raised not to believe in divorce and, even in all my confusion and hot/cold days, I still don't but not necessarily for religious reasons. I took my vows seriously, I take them seriously now. God didn't have a whole lot to do with why I got married in the first place, but now we're having the "kids" talk.

 

I love my husband, I am in love with my husband, I respect so many things about him. I don't have any desire or reason to leave him. But he wasn't raised the way I was, mine was much more fundamental. I got more "you should have known better" or "repent" parent talks than I can count, I was indoctrinated early on, the sin shame was real. I don't know what it's like not to feel guilty about "conviction of sin." His family went to church most Sundays and his parents taught him to be "moral" with the occasional "Jesus is the Reason for the Season" line thrown in for good measure. So he's still a "Christian" but it's ambiguous, laid back, and very chill. He doesn't really get "sin shame" or read the Bible often or anything, but he prays and believes Jesus died for his sins. Cue the biological desire to procreate. "What if I want to raise the kids in Church" or "What if I want to teach them religious holidays," etc.

 

I am adamantly, angrily against this. I don't want to teach my future children that BS, not while they're impressionable. I don't want to go to church, I don't want to take our kids there, I don't want to teach them that baby Jesus in the manger is why we celebrate Christmas, blah blah blah. I don't know what to do. It seems like a low blow to go "well then no kiddos for you, until you see the light." But I don't want to be unfair to kids. I'm "unequally yoked" haha....anyone have opinions on what happens with starting a family? I'm happy with my husband, we have such a healthy relationship (because he's NOT a diehard fundamentalist), we have hard talks about beliefs, but we've essentially agreed to disagree.....I don't want to be stupid. We are happy. Where do we go from here? Anyone been down this road and have any feedback?

[florduh]

Good luck with that.

 

Usually a compromise is reached. Perhaps you could set an age for a child to learn about ALL religions and start visiting various churches every other week. Discuss what was heard at the sermon and go over the tenets of that organization. It's just a starting point for negotiation. Frankly, I personally would never allow my child to be indoctrinated, particularly at a very young age. Exposed yes, indoctrinated NO. I see the responsibility to a child as greater than responsibility to any adult, even a spouse.

[Daffodil]

Well, it happened for us after we had kids, so my suggestions need to be taken in that light.  It's incredibly fortunate for you that your husband is not fundamental.  I am guessing that his church/denomination is of the more mainline variety?  If so, then there's MUCH more freedom in interpretation there.  They probably wouldn't mind much if the children are told that the Bible is a book of stories written by many people long ago who did not have all the scientific discoveries we have today and were just trying to make sense of what they saw around them.  I mean, that is the truth, so you wouldn't be lying!  You could then tell them that daddy and many other people believe that god is real, but that you and many other people don't believe that god is real.  I think letting them see that two people can believe very different things and still love and care for each other is one of the best ways you can demonstrate humanistic ideals to them.  I would definitely hide your anger from them, regardless of how much you seethe inside.  That anger comes from your experiences, not their's, and that would counteract the message that people can disagree and still love each other.  If they want to ask you about your experiences when they get old enough to handle it, then you can certainly tell them then.

 

Although my preference personally would be like florduh's - not ever taking them to church - I do think there is a benefit to them getting a little education in what people believe so that they can develop their own critical thinking skills in determining what makes sense and what does not.  I know an atheist family here whose kids never set foot in a church as they were growing up, and their teenage daughter got sucked into going to church by her friends.  Whether her parents had ever sat her down and explained why they were atheist, I don't know, but I think it would definitely have helped in that situation.  

 

As to negotiating having kids, I would tell your husband that it is only fair that if he insists they go to church with him, that you get to tell them what you do and don't believe.  You don't have to go to church with them, and when they are old enough to decide what they believe, they are free to stay home with you if they so choose.  Point out that you want the children to be strong, independent, critical thinkers able to make their own decisions with confidence and not just adopt whatever their parents believe.  And I would suggest to you that you promise him that if the kids choose to believe in god, you will not get in their way.  Despite what you believe and what you have gone through, that is YOUR story, not theirs.  They have a right to write their own story, too.  I suspect that if you are open and honest with them as they grow up, and your husband is as well, they will be more likely to follow in your footsteps than in his.  

 

Sorry if I got a little preachy at the end!  Good luck to you!  ?

[ag_NO_stic]

 

Well, it happened for us after we had kids, so my suggestions need to be taken in that light.  It's incredibly fortunate for you that your husband is not fundamental.  I am guessing that his church/denomination is of the more mainline variety?  If so, then there's MUCH more freedom in interpretation there.  They probably wouldn't mind much if the children are told that the Bible is a book of stories written by many people long ago who did not have all the scientific discoveries we have today and were just trying to make sense of what they saw around them.  I mean, that is the truth, so you wouldn't be lying!  You could then tell them that daddy and many other people believe that god is real, but that you and many other people don't believe that god is real.  I think letting them see that two people can believe very different things and still love and care for each other is one of the best ways you can demonstrate humanistic ideals to them.  I would definitely hide your anger from them, regardless of how much you seethe inside.  That anger comes from your experiences, not their's, and that would counteract the message that people can disagree and still love each other.  If they want to ask you about your experiences when they get old enough to handle it, then you can certainly tell them then.

 

Although my preference personally would be like florduh's - not ever taking them to church - I do think there is a benefit to them getting a little education in what people believe so that they can develop their own critical thinking skills in determining what makes sense and what does not.  I know an atheist family here whose kids never set foot in a church as they were growing up, and their teenage daughter got sucked into going to church by her friends.  Whether her parents had ever sat her down and explained why they were atheist, I don't know, but I think it would definitely have helped in that situation.  

 

As to negotiating having kids, I would tell your husband that it is only fair that if he insists they go to church with him, that you get to tell them what you do and don't believe.  You don't have to go to church with them, and when they are old enough to decide what they believe, they are free to stay home with you if they so choose.  Point out that you want the children to be strong, independent, critical thinkers able to make their own decisions with confidence and not just adopt whatever their parents believe.  And I would suggest to you that you promise him that if the kids choose to believe in god, you will not get in their way.  Despite what you believe and what you have gone through, that is YOUR story, not theirs.  They have a right to write their own story, too.  I suspect that if you are open and honest with them as they grow up, and your husband is as well, they will be more likely to follow in your footsteps than in his.  

 

Sorry if I got a little preachy at the end!  Good luck to you!  ?

 

I don't think I could possibly thank you enough for this. This is seriously so so so helpful, it makes a lot of sense. I saw something that resonated with me on another thread, I think Geezer posted it (sorry, don't know how to link it to this reply yet...), but he mentioned that he loved his wife more than he hated religion. While I still have a ton of anger, for sure, I love my husband so much more. I guess the confusion lies in how much love I will have for our children that will translate into NOT wanting them to be poisoned by religion. What you say makes so much sense though, again, thank you.

 

 

Good luck with that.

 

Usually a compromise is reached. Perhaps you could set an age for a child to learn about ALL religions and start visiting various churches every other week. Discuss what was heard at the sermon and go over the tenets of that organization. It's just a starting point for negotiation. Frankly, I personally would never allow my child to be indoctrinated, particularly at a very young age. Exposed yes, indoctrinated NO. I see the responsibility to a child as greater than responsibility to any adult, even a spouse.

 

Yeah, the indoctrination thing is a problem for me too. The thing is, I think Christianity actually relies on "indoctrination" to keep people, because if I had only "been exposed" with the threats of hell and sin, I don't know that I would have ever believed it. I think the "some people believe in God, Daddy does and Mommy doesn't" is a really interesting way to expose them to the beliefs of Christianity (and other religions with deities).

[TABA]

You have been given very sound and wise advice by Florduh and Daffodil.  All I can do is reinforce some of their points.  

 

You don't want to drive either your husband or your kids deeper into Christianity by an angry or demeaning approach to religious faith.  Anything you can do to steer him - and especially your kids - toward as liberal as possible a version of Christianity should lessen the effects of indoctrination. 

 

While indoctrination is bad, exposure to different religions and gods is very important.  It helps them see the various gods as the cultural constructs that they are.  They should learn how in ages past people came up with god beliefs to explain the world and they should be aware that those beliefs are receding in the modern world. 

 

Anyway be thankful at least that your husband is relatively laid back about religion.  Who knows, if he sees you as a happy unbeliever who has peace and purpose without a god, he just might end up deconverting too.  It happens...

[readyforchange]

 

I am adamantly, angrily against this. I don't want to teach my future children that BS, not while they're impressionable. I don't want to go to church, I don't want to take our kids there, I don't want to teach them that baby Jesus in the manger is why we celebrate Christmas, blah blah blah. I don't know what to do. It seems like a low blow to go "well then no kiddos for you, until you see the light." But I don't want to be unfair to kids. I'm "unequally yoked" haha....anyone have opinions on what happens with starting a family? I'm happy with my husband, we have such a healthy relationship (because he's NOT a diehard fundamentalist), we have hard talks about beliefs, but we've essentially agreed to disagree.....I don't want to be stupid. We are happy. Where do we go from here? Anyone been down this road and have any feedback?

 

Maybe a compromise would be after each time your husband takes your kids to church, your kids must spend an equal amount of time with you, explaining what they learned in church and then listening to your opinion/perspective on what they were taught.  This might help them see things from a different perspective and help their critical thinking development. 

[ag_NO_stic]

 

Anyway be thankful at least that your husband is relatively laid back about religion.  Who knows, if he sees you as a happy unbeliever who has peace and purpose without a god, he just might end up deconverting too.  It happens...

 

There's a time when I would have said I'd pray for it.....now it's just cross my fingers and hope he sees the irrationality of it all. I just suggested last night that we study the history of the Bible together, so he can learn what has convinced me. The emotional nature of it is what is so hard for some to overcome.

 

 

 

Maybe a compromise would be after each time your husband takes your kids to church, your kids must spend an equal amount of time with you, explaining what they learned in church and then listening to your opinion/perspective on what they were taught.  This might help them see things from a different perspective and help their critical thinking development. 

 

That's a great idea! I am a huge fan of developing critical thinking lol

[Riversong]

I love the above advice. I think the key is not teaching your kids the exclusivist claims of Christianity. I think it creeps in so early. Even this last year, I had a book out on the table by Desmond TuTu called "God is not a Christian."  My 7-yo was really puzzled by the title. How could God not be a Christian??  I was in the process of doubting and could at least say that people in other cultures have different religions and that it is ok. Clearly, until then, we had quietly communicated the pervasive Christian worldview that Jesus is the only way. I agree that it's key that your husband doesn't even understand the issues that you are bringing up. I think that if Christianity lite brings you friends at church and a general moral compass, that seems workable for raising kids together. If he respects and understands where you are coming from. 

 

Good luck!