sdelsolray Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Come now - your standards are too high. You wouldn't apply that to the claim that Julius Caesar was Emperor. i) and ii) are easily doable, iii) requires some financial savviness which is sadly lacking with my True Believers (TM) You need to up the quality of your tribe. $1,000,000 or no sky fairy status. I'm just the messenger. This was already claimed and verified from on high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stranger Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 So it was God's plan then for them to eat the tree and bring sin and death into the world? If it was part of his overall plan, then Adam and Eve were merely pawns, designed to serve a purpose. Well, yes. Stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stranger Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Ok. To clarify, you are a 6,000 year old, literal 6 day creationist? If so are you willing to examine if what you believe is actually grounded in reality? At this point rather than discussing Adam, Eve and Steve (I call the serpent Steve) we should probably discuss Genesis 1:1. Anyhow... "Indeed, I believe this was the best thing God could do." Why would you want to then worship a god that is less wise, loving and moral than that which he created? IF that's the best god could do? Judge ALL of humanity for Adam and Eves mistake after intentionally setting them up to fail? Who created evil? No. I have a differnet view of the creation. I hold to what is known as the 'gap theory'. Are you familiar? I call the serpent satan. As I said before, the best thing God could do was find us guilty in Adam. But God is not 'less wise'. That is your assumption or belief. You ask Who created evil? I ask is evil a creation? Or did it exist. Stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stranger Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Again, the text does not say spiritual death, nor does it refer to the serpent as Satan. Those are LATER concepts. Physically dying more than 900 years later doesn't quite fit the warning, either. As far as the last statement, research the evolution of the character Satan. Again, the Bible doesn't consist of just the book of Genesis. Stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Again, the Bible doesn't consist of just the book of Genesis. Stranger Genesis doesn't consist of any of the rest of the Bible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutrichuckles93 Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 No. I have a differnet view of the creation. I hold to what is known as the 'gap theory'. Are you familiar? I call the serpent satan. As I said before, the best thing God could do was find us guilty in Adam. But God is not 'less wise'. That is your assumption or belief. You ask Who created evil? I ask is evil a creation? Or did it exist. Stranger Your god says he created everything. That nothing existed before him but him (a ridiculous notion). Then that means he created the concept of evil. Your god claims to be all good, and yet he created the very concept of evil (aka, not good). How is that not counterintuitive, or just plain contradictory, on his part? Most Christians just wave that away as his ways being higher than our ways. That is not an acceptable answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stranger Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Genesis doesn't consist of any of the rest of the Bible. Genesis is part of the Bible. Not to be separated. Stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Genesis is part of the Bible. Not to be separated. Stranger It wasn't written as part of the Bible. I get it, though. I used to be just as indoctrinated as you appear to be. It's difficult to see the various books for what they are when you're conditioned to view them as parts of one whole "word of god." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stranger Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Your god says he created everything. That nothing existed before him but him (a ridiculous notion). Then that means he created the concept of evil. Your god claims to be all good, and yet he created the very concept of evil (aka, not good). How is that not counterintuitive, or just plain contradictory, on his part? Most Christians just wave that away as his ways being higher than our ways. That is not an acceptable answer. Nothing materially exists that is not created by God. Evil is nothing but an opposition to God. God created Lucifer. And Lucifer was a murderer from the begining. What I can say is that God created Lucifer knowing who he was. And He created him for His own purpose. Stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 No. I have a differnet view of the creation. I hold to what is known as the 'gap theory'. Are you familiar? ... Translated: I have may own set of Special Apologetics™ that I use. Aren't I special? Of course, they just contain more mere assertions and other logical fallacies. But they're really good mere assertions and logical fallacies. ... I call the serpent satan. ... Your indoctrination requires this of you. ... As I said before, the best thing God could do was find us guilty in Adam. ... I have not seen you make this statement before on this forum. Check you facts. Your infection of the Stockholm Syndrome is showing. Try to clean that up. ... But God is not 'less wise'. That is your assumption or belief. ... Just not in any way you can demonstrate. ...You ask Who created evil? I ask is evil a creation? Or did it exist. ... In addition to your homework assignment to study the term "non-sequitur", let's add to your homework the "false dichotomy fallacy". 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stranger Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 It wasn't written as part of the Bible. I get it, though. I used to be just as indoctrinated as you appear to be. It's difficult to see the various books for what they are when you're conditioned to view them as parts of one whole "word of god." It was written as the Word of God, which would make it part of the Bible. Stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Your god says he created everything. That nothing existed before him but him (a ridiculous notion). Then that means he created the concept of evil. Your god claims to be all good, and yet he created the very concept of evil (aka, not good). How is that not counterintuitive, or just plain contradictory, on his part? Most Christians just wave that away as his ways being higher than our ways. That is not an acceptable answer. Correction, it is certain theists (humans with certain religious beliefs) that claim their god is all good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stranger Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Translated: I have may own set of Special Apologetics™ that I use. Aren't I special? Of course, they just contain more mere assertions and other logical fallacies. But they're really good mere assertions and logical fallacies. Your indoctrination requires this of you. I have not seen you make this statement before on this forum. Check you facts. Your infection of the Stockholm Syndrome is showing. Try to clean that up. Just not in any way you can demonstrate. In addition to your homework assignment to study the term "non-sequitur", let's add to your homework the "false dichotomy fallacy". Sorry, I don't do homework assigments. Stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator LogicalFallacy Posted June 15, 2017 Moderator Share Posted June 15, 2017 1) No. I have a differnet view of the creation. I hold to what is known as the 'gap theory'. Are you familiar? 2) I call the serpent satan. 3) As I said before, the best thing God could do was find us guilty in Adam. 4) But God is not 'less wise'. That is your assumption or belief. 5) You ask Who created evil? I ask is evil a creation? Or did it exist. Stranger 1) Yes I have heard of gap theory. It the theory that you use because your brain won't allow you to read the bible literally while at the same time accepting modern science. Therefore in order to over come the cognitive dissonance you come up with a massive span of time between verses in chapter 1 (gap theory), based on nothing, that allows you to keep your bible and science. BAA will be better suited to delve into this further. Interestingly we have been discussing this issue in the science forum for some time. I look forward to seeing BAA and a Christian converse about it. 2) Would you consider Satan/Serpent evil? 3) And as I said, Gods best is atrocious 4) I also assume people like TRP, Josh, BAA, sdelsolray are wiser and more knowledgeable than I am. Why? Because what they post is generally of a nature of ideas etc I hadn't thought of. They obviously, at this point, have some greater wisdom and knowledge than me. Conversely when I read a "wise" God's holy book that is riddled with falsehoods, failed prophesies and is just plain wrong I can safely assume that God is less wise than me. 5) Before the creation of anything what was there? Cheers LF 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Sorry, I don't do homework assigments. Stranger Yes, you don't do homework. And you are proud of that. Likely, your brain was not allowed to develop properly and it atrophied in your youth due to the intense religious indoctrination to which you were exposed, as well as subsequent years of peer pressure to remain compliant and subservient. These stifled your curiosity, your rationality and your humanism. All you are left with are mere assertions of infantile, primitive and empty religious dogma and associated hollow and myopic apologetics. Of course, your most likely consider yourself special, with privileged access to your imaginary Sky Fairies and The Truth™. Others, including myself, would conclude you are a peddler of nonsense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutrichuckles93 Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Nothing materially exists that is not created by God. Evil is nothing but an opposition to God. God created Lucifer. And Lucifer was a murderer from the begining. What I can say is that God created Lucifer knowing who he was. And He created him for His own purpose. Stranger So god created his own opposition, you say? That is exceedingly idiotic. What possible reason could god have for creating someone whose sole purpose is to perform evil? If god despises evil, why would he create what could only dole out evil? Just for shits and giggles? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ ficino ♦ Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Of course, your most likely consider yourself special, with privileged access to your imaginary Sky Fairies and The Truth™. Sidney Morgenbesser, late philosophy prof at Columbia, had a few riddles. What's the first rule of Jewish epistemology? Your mother has privileged access to the truth. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 So god created his own opposition, you say? That is exceedingly idiotic. What possible reason could god have for creating someone whose sole purpose is to perform evil? If god despises evil, why would he create what could only dole out evil? Just for shits and giggles? Apologetics typically only address the present contradiction/question/fallacy and do not "think ahead" about the ramifications of the introduction of the apologetic itself. This requires invention of a new apologetic to handle the fallout of the previous one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stranger Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 1) Yes I have heard of gap theory. It the theory that you use because your brain won't allow you to read the bible literally while at the same time accepting modern science. Therefore in order to over come the cognitive dissonance you come up with a massive span of time between verses in chapter 1 (gap theory), based on nothing, that allows you to keep your bible and science. BAA will be better suited to delve into this further. Interestingly we have been discussing this issue in the science forum for some time. I look forward to seeing BAA and a Christian converse about it. 2) Would you consider Satan/Serpent evil? 3) And as I said, Gods best is atrocious 4) I also assume people like TRP, Josh, BAA, sdelsolray are wiser and more knowledgeable than I am. Why? Because what they post is generally of a nature of ideas etc I hadn't thought of. They obviously, at this point, have some greater wisdom and knowledge than me. Conversely when I read a "wise" God's holy book that is riddled with falsehoods, failed prophesies and is just plain wrong I can safely assume that God is less wise than me. 5) Before the creation of anything what was there? Cheers LF 1.) Good, I look forward also. 2.) Yes 3.) Your opinion 4.) Your assumption. 5.) God Stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stranger Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Yes, you don't do homework. And you are proud of that. Likely, your brain was not allowed to develop properly and it atrophied in your youth due to the intense religious indoctrination to which you were exposed, as well as subsequent years of peer pressure to remain compliant and subservient. These stifled your curiosity, your rationality and your humanism. All you are left with are mere assertions of infantile, primitive and empty religious dogma and associated hollow and myopic apologetics. Of course, your most likely consider yourself special, with privileged access to your imaginary Sky Fairies and The Truth™. Others, including myself, would conclude you are a peddler of nonsense. No, I just don't do homework assignments. Stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stranger Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 So god created his own opposition, you say? That is exceedingly idiotic. What possible reason could god have for creating someone whose sole purpose is to perform evil? If god despises evil, why would he create what could only dole out evil? Just for shits and giggles? It served His purpose. Stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutrichuckles93 Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Apologetics typically only address the present contradiction/question/fallacy and do not "think ahead" about the ramifications of the introduction of the apologetic itself. This requires invention of a new apologetic to handle the fallout of the previous one. I'm beginning to notice the trend with that. I see that Stranger has closed off his mind and is committed to what he believes no matter what logic against it is thrown his way. "His purpose" and all that. Nothing can refute "I believe" or "His purpose" once one has decided so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 No, I just don't do homework assignments. Stranger Sure thing, Sparky. Show us more about how good and proud you are at being passive-aggressive and how good and proud you are at ignoring reality. You have an audience, at least for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdelsolray Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 I'm beginning to notice the trend with that. I see that Stranger has closed off his mind and is committed to what he believes no matter what logic against it is thrown his way. "His purpose" and all that. Nothing can refute "I believe" or "His purpose" once one has decided so. I suspect his brain is actually wired differently due to early childhood environmental factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stranger Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 Sure thing, Sparky. Show us more about how good and proud you are at being passive-aggressive and how good and proud you are at ignoring reality. You have an audience, at least for now. Reality? And you say you have a grasp of 'reality'? Stranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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