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Goodbye Jesus

A challenge for Christians


whitehorse

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I think you should just leave quietly now, Stranger.  Shake the dust off your sandals, and all that.  There is nothing for you here.

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No.  

 

Stranger

 

Since you are clearly not interested in finding out what is true and how best to determine what is true (Because you think you have absolute truth) what are you doing here?

 

Are you hoping to get some lost souls to Christ? I can tell you that if God existed he would not send someone like you to do that because any god worth the title would know that we aren't going to accept someone telling us that the bible is the absolute truth because the bible says its the absolute truth. The reason we became Ex-Christian is because we found out the bible is not the absolute truth and we know this. Any god would also know this and would thus not use a circular argument predetermined to fail.

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No.  

 

Stranger

 

Nor can I.

 

Your position (the willful denial of physical evidence in favor of "spiritual" evidence) seems to be the same as practiced by William Lane Craig, as per the example in this link.

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http://www.rationalskepticism.org/general-faith/william-lane-craig-s-hypocrisy-and-science-denial-t38622.html

 

Dr. Craig, for the sake of argument let's pretend that a time machine gets built. You and I hop in it, and travel back to the day before Easter, 33 AD. We park it outside the tomb of Jesus. We wait. Easter morning rolls around, and nothing happens. We continue to wait. After several weeks of waiting, still nothing happens. There is no resurrection- Jesus is quietly rotting away in the tomb. 

I asked him, given this scenario, would he then give up his Christianity? Having seen with his own eyes that there was no resurrection of Jesus, having been an eyewitness to the fact that Christianity has been based upon a fraud and a lie, would he NOW renounce Christianity? His answer was shocking, and quite unexpected.

He told me, face to face, that he would STILL believe in Jesus, he would STILL believe in the resurrection, and he would STILL remain a Christian. When asked, in light of his being a personal eyewitness to the fact that there WAS no resurrection, he replied that due to the witness of the "holy spirit" within him, he would assume a trick of some sort had been played on him while watching Jesus' tomb. This self-induced blindness astounded me.

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Since there appears to be nothing you or Craig could witness with your senses that can change your mind, there can be no meaningful dialog between us.

 

Goodbye.

 

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Since you are clearly not interested in finding out what is true and how best to determine what is true (Because you think you have absolute truth) what are you doing here?

 

Are you hoping to get some lost souls to Christ? I can tell you that if God existed he would not send someone like you to do that because any god worth the title would know that we aren't going to accept someone telling us that the bible is the absolute truth because the bible says its the absolute truth. The reason we became Ex-Christian is because we found out the bible is not the absolute truth and we know this. Any god would also know this and would thus not use a circular argument predetermined to fail.

 

It's a forum.   If Christians are not allowed, then let me know.  Seems to me that we are in the category 'Lions Den'.  I am here because I saw your forum listed as I was looking for a forum.   I looked at it and saw the category 'Lions Den' and figured why not.   

 

Stranger

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It's a forum.   If Christians are not allowed, then let me know.  Seems to me that we are in the category 'Lions Den'.  I am here because I saw your forum listed as I was looking for a forum.   I looked at it and saw the category 'Lions Den' and figured why not.   

 

Stranger

 

Oh Christians are allowed, but most come with a purpose. Some seek dialogue, to understand, to learn, some to "save lost souls", some are searching for truth.

 

You on the other hand come here with no purpose, absolutely sure that you have the truth while admitting you care nothing for the truth, and are absolutely wrong about everything you have said without knowing it. To quote the bible:

 

@Stranger "You do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked."

 

You have nothing to offer, do not provide any reason for us to believe your unfounded assertions, and are willfully ignorant of the subject matter of that which you purport to uphold.

 

As BAA said, there can be no meaningful dialogue between us.

 

If you truly seek answers, or feel you have some evidence to share you are most welcome to discuss it. Until then your assertions and beliefs are meaningless.

 

Au reviour

LF
 

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I think you should just leave quietly now, Stranger.  Shake the dust off your sandals, and all that.  There is nothing for you here.

 

Astreja,

 

That is what the Stranger should do if he is not welcome in the Den.

But since the rules and guidelines clearly permit Christians to be here, he can argue that what you've suggested doesn't apply to him.  Also, it's unlikely that ALL the other members of Ex-C will unite and state as one that he will not be listened to.   Therefore, so long as someone is willing to engage him, he can argue that what you've suggested doesn't apply to him.  He can stay here for as long as he likes and there's nothing we can do.  

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Lion's Den Rules

Attention "True Christians™" and former Christians. 

This is the section of the board where Christian opinions, arguments, sermons and so on will be more-or-less tolerated. Aggressive evangelism is permitted in this section, but aggressive evangelists should be ready to be met by equally aggressive resistance. 

An occasionally heated response is allowed and sometimes even encouraged. However, all posters to the Lion's Den are still expected to adhere the general rules of decorum as delineated in the Forum Guidelines. In other words, conversations in the Lion's Den are intended to be permissively unrestrained without devolving into repetitious verbal abuse. Those who are identified as repeatedly abusive -- in this section or any section of this website -- may be suspended or banned from posting without notice. 

Note: In view of the fiery nature of the discussions which occur in the Lion's Den, only those with a fairly thick skin should participate. 

 

 

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Astreja,

 

That is what the Stranger should do if he is not welcome in the Den.

But since the rules and guidelines clearly permit Christians to be here, he can argue that what you've suggested doesn't apply to him.  Also, it's unlikely that ALL the other members of Ex-C will unite and state as one that he will not be listened to.   Therefore, so long as someone is willing to engage him, he can argue that what you've suggested doesn't apply to him.  He can stay here for as long as he likes and there's nothing we can do.  

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Lion's Den Rules

Attention "True Christians™" and former Christians. 

This is the section of the board where Christian opinions, arguments, sermons and so on will be more-or-less tolerated. Aggressive evangelism is permitted in this section, but aggressive evangelists should be ready to be met by equally aggressive resistance. 

An occasionally heated response is allowed and sometimes even encouraged. However, all posters to the Lion's Den are still expected to adhere the general rules of decorum as delineated in the Forum Guidelines. In other words, conversations in the Lion's Den are intended to be permissively unrestrained without devolving into repetitious verbal abuse. Those who are identified as repeatedly abusive -- in this section or any section of this website -- may be suspended or banned from posting without notice. 

Note: In view of the fiery nature of the discussions which occur in the Lion's Den, only those with a fairly thick skin should participate. 

 

 

 

@BAA,

 

But but but The Bible is THE Ultimate Instruction Book for a True Christian -- certainly more authoritative than some ol' dumb policy of  an infidel website such as Ex-C.  Stranger is violating his own holey buybull's instructions:  :49:

 

If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet.  -- Matt 10:14
 

 

 

 

 

 

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@BAA,

 

But but but The Bible is THE Ultimate Instruction Book for a True Christian -- certainly more authoritative than some ol' dumb policy of  an infidel website such as Ex-C.  Stranger is violating his own holey buybull's instructions:  :49:

 

If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, leave that home or town and shake the dust off your feet.  -- Matt 10:14
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hear you, buffetphan.

 

But  it's my understanding that the verses concerning Christians leaving a place are conditional instructions.  On the condition that you are not welcome - shake the dust off your feet and leave.   On the condition that nobody will listen to your words - shake the dust off your feet and leave.  Therefore, either of those conditions have to be fulfilled in the Den for the Stranger to obey this instruction.

 

But since the Den is open to Christians, how can he be unwelcome?

And unless everyone here is united in not listening to him, then someone must be willing to listen to him.  Do you see how it works now?  So long as the Den remains open to Christians, the Stranger is welcome.  So long as even one person is willing to listen to him, then he need not leave.

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

 

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Stranger serves a purpose as long as he wants to be here. He's showing the lurkers how batshit crazy Christians can be. He only hurts his own purpose with the ignorant nonsense he posts.

 

 

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Stranger serves a purpose as long as he wants to be here. He's showing the lurkers how batshit crazy Christians can be. He only hurts his own purpose with the ignorant nonsense he posts.

 

 

 

In that case, it would be best if he never left.

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It's a forum.   If Christians are not allowed, then let me know.  Seems to me that we are in the category 'Lions Den'.  I am here because I saw your forum listed as I was looking for a forum.   I looked at it and saw the category 'Lions Den' and figured why not.   

 

Stranger

 

Oh, you're definitely allowed to stay, Stranger, unless you start breaking rules (which, to the best of my knowledge, you have not done).

 

The damage you're doing to Christianity with your posts is actually rather amusing to watch.  I was just giving you a heads-up based on Matthew 10:14, as Buffetphan pointed out.

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Oh, you're definitely allowed to stay, Stranger, unless you start breaking rules (which, to the best of my knowledge, you have not done).

 

The damage you're doing to Christianity with your posts is actually rather amusing to watch.  I was just giving you a heads-up based on Matthew 10:14, as Buffetphan pointed out.

 

Application can be made to (Matt. 10:14) concerning the Christian, but in reality, the Church hadn't begun yet.  And these verses (10:5-15) pertain to the preaching the gospel of the kingdom.  Which is a different gospel.  And note verses (5-6) that it was only to the house of Israel.  Whereas the Christian gospel goes throughout the whole world.   But I believe the principle can still be applied.   

 

Stranger

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Application can be made to (Matt. 10:14) concerning the Christian, but in reality, the Church hadn't begun yet.  And these verses (10:5-15) pertain to the preaching the gospel of the kingdom.  Which is a different gospel.  And note verses (5-6) that it was only to the house of Israel.  Whereas the Christian gospel goes throughout the whole world.   But I believe the principle can still be applied.   

 

Stranger

Apologetics, made up stuff, self serving interpretation, opinion and more assertions.... anything else?

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I don't know about anyone else, but I'd happily take a Bob Dylan lyric or three about now...

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"In the Book of Spiderman, Spiderman claims that the Book of Spiderman is non-fiction and the absolute truth and that the reader needs to follow Spiderman's rules and precepts. Therefore I trust the Book of Spiderman and worship Spiderman as my Lord and Savior."

 

Would the sentence above be incorrect? If I can use circular reasoning to believe in something with no evidence then why would it need to be Jesus Christ? Any Savior I can imagine would be equally viable.

 

...

 

Stranger is a brick wall for Jesus. He indicated that the reason he believes is because he believes. I was also armed with that same weak defense of my faith when I was a Christian. When all else fails whip out the "Oh yeah! Well I'm gonna believe in Jesus no matter what!" You can't piss off your imaginary 'friend.' He might kick your ass. :) Fear based religions suck.

 

I would suggest disengaging him or at least purchasing a soft pillow to bang your head against.

 

This may not be the best time for this but what the heck...

 

Hey Stranger, I don't really believe in Jesus anymore (ex-Pentecostal) but I COULD BE WRONG. Jesus could be real and all that stuff in the bible could be right. I admitted I could be wrong. Without fear. Can you take a moment and entertain the idea that you could be wrong? Just say, "Jesus isn't real" or "Jesus might not be real" and I bet nothing happens. Then go back to believing that Jesus is real again. Take a 60 second break from Jesus now and then. I bet Jesus won't even respond (because he never does). Of course if your church mates get wind of that, they might go apeshit but I'm about 100% sure Jesus could care less.

 

When I got baptized he never appeared at the picnic to eat ribs, make a speech, didn't even pop into my head and say, "Thanks, buddy."

After a decade of church, prayer, bible reading, not one visit in the flesh (or by any sensory vision) by Jesus. Nope.

When I got tired of feeling guilty for sinning against Jesus and said "bye bye now" he did not appear and try to talk me out of it. No communications whatsoever. Nada. What a waste of time and money. Something to think about.

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"In the Book of Spiderman, Spiderman claims that the Book of Spiderman is non-fiction and the absolute truth and that the reader needs to follow Spiderman's rules and precepts. Therefore I trust the Book of Spiderman and worship Spiderman as my Lord and Savior."

 

Would the sentence above be incorrect? If I can use circular reasoning to believe in something with no evidence then why would it need to be Jesus Christ? Any Savior I can imagine would be equally viable.

 

...

 

Stranger is a brick wall for Jesus. He indicated that the reason he believes is because he believes. I was also armed with that same weak defense of my faith when I was a Christian. When all else fails whip out the "Oh yeah! Well I'm gonna believe in Jesus no matter what!" You can't piss off your imaginary 'friend.' He might kick your ass. :) Fear based religions suck.

 

I would suggest disengaging him or at least purchasing a soft pillow to bang your head against.

 

This may not be the best time for this but what the heck...

 

Hey Stranger, I don't really believe in Jesus anymore (ex-Pentecostal) but I COULD BE WRONG. Jesus could be real and all that stuff in the bible could be right. I admitted I could be wrong. Without fear. Can you take a moment and entertain the idea that you could be wrong? Just say, "Jesus isn't real" or "Jesus might not be real" and I bet nothing happens. Then go back to believing that Jesus is real again. Take a 60 second break from Jesus now and then. I bet Jesus won't even respond (because he never does). Of course if your church mates get wind of that, they might go apeshit but I'm about 100% sure Jesus could care less.

 

When I got baptized he never appeared at the picnic to eat ribs, make a speech, didn't even pop into my head and say, "Thanks, buddy."

After a decade of church, prayer, bible reading, not one visit in the flesh (or by any sensory vision) by Jesus. Nope.

When I got tired of feeling guilty for sinning against Jesus and said "bye bye now" he did not appear and try to talk me out of it. No communications whatsoever. Nada. What a waste of time and money. Something to think about.

 

Apparently you wasted you time.   Sorry for  your loss.

 

Stranger

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Apologetics, made up stuff, self serving interpretation, opinion and more assertions.... anything else?

 

Just read above./

 

Stranger

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Just read above./

 

Stranger

 

Well it finally looks like the Christian has run out of stuff to make up.

 

Cheers bud, come at me when you have something more.

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