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mwc

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     Anyone here actually mining this stuff?

 

          mwc

 

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PLEASE EXCUSE THE ANNOYING COMMERCIAL BREAKS IN THE CONVERSATION:

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And now, back to the regularly scheduled conversation...



BTC here.

 

kL

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More importantly - is anyone actually making money off it? I mean serious dough?

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I don't even understand the concept of this "stuff".

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I thought about it and looked into it for a while. But when I learned that the Chinese have supercomputer farms dedicated to nothing else but bitcoin mining, I gave up starting.

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     I'm just starting to look into this and it seems you guys, minus Kev apparently, have the same questions I do.  Beyond what it is I'm wondering is it worth doing?

 

     It looks like to me that you need ASICs to mine BT anymore.  That's a lot of sunk costs upfront.  I just started playing with LTC because it was really easy to get into and play around with but it looks like it's fairly impossible to ever make money mining it (unless you go the ASIC route and even then).

 

     So now I guess there's Etherium (and classic) and Zcash maybe Monero (many more but they don't look so good but maybe I'm missing something about them).  These all seem doable especially the last two.  I'm just not sure if it's worth the trouble.  I can build out the rig.  I can do that all day.  I've already seen and understand how to do that.  It's just whether or not it's really worth it?

 

     Lots of folks seem to recommend skipping the mining aspect and just buying altcoins outright.  Seems cheaper but less fun.  I know that "fun" isn't what it's all about but life is kind of shit otherwise.  But I can't let fun cost me a shit-ton of potential cash either.

 

     If anyone wants to pass along their wisdom feel free (or PM me if you don't want to let you trade secrets out ;) ).

 

          mwc

 

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MikeD said he was investing in Bitcoin a while back. Not sure if he's still in it. I just don't understand it well enough to know if it's cheap or not now, so I've avoided it. 

As for the mining, just a hunch here, but it seems to me it's like the gold rush days. Those early enough to stake good claims or those who bought out those claims did well, but the late comers scraped and sweated for just enough to break even or worse. Maybe that's not a fair comparison, but I have to wonder if all the easy money has already been made. 

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but I have to wonder if all the easy money has already been made. 

Exactly... From what I've gathered, with just the information provided here, in order for me to even get one, single bitcoin, I have to cough up $568.

 

Sorry but, I don't have that kind of money to just play around with. Let alone not having something material to show for it.

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MikeD said he was investing in Bitcoin a while back. Not sure if he's still in it. I just don't understand it well enough to know if it's cheap or not now, so I've avoided it. 

As for the mining, just a hunch here, but it seems to me it's like the gold rush days. Those early enough to stake good claims or those who bought out those claims did well, but the late comers scraped and sweated for just enough to break even or worse. Maybe that's not a fair comparison, but I have to wonder if all the easy money has already been made. 

     That's the thing.  I've looked at it that way but I don't know if that's a fair comparison or not.

 

     People tend to simply look at BitCoin.  And only that.  But there are others (several hundred of various degrees of value).  Etherium is one.  It just seems that BitCoin has become sort of the defacto currency that people trade with which I think is what gives it more value than the others.  You can get (buy/mine) other currencies and trade them for BT (and vice versa) which can be used for whatever.  Like any currency exchange.

 

     So even though BT might be expensive to acquire straight out it might be easier to simply mine other currencies then buy fractional shares of BT over time (or if it tanks whatever takes its place).  I have no interest spending thousands and thousands on ASICs to mine BT on the hopes of recovering those sunk costs.  That seem foolish and very much like a gold rush mentality.  Building a general purpose machine that I can adapt to mine low hanging fruit quickly is more what I have in mind.  Get in, get while the gettings good and move on to the next thing.  Just stay ahead of the curve.

 

     But all I really know is how all the hardware/software fits together for the most part.  I basically get all that.  I pretty much get the concept of how the whole thing works conceptually.  I don't understand how it is actually worth anything beyond the whole people want it to have value therefor it has value (which is essentially why anything has value but still).  It's roundabout this point where I'm having trouble connecting the dots and getting all the pieces to come together.  The tech I'm fine with.  How that tech translates into actual money, how that line is crossed, I'm on shaky ground.  How the wallets work.  How funds get transferred.  And so on.  That's crossing me up.  I get the concepts behind them but the execution is tripping me up.  It's like there's an "A" and "C" piece and I'm missing that "B" piece that will get me there so I'll know how it all comes together and whether it's worth it or not.

 

     I don't think I'm making all that much sense because it's still all sort of a jumble in my mind.  My wife thinks it's all a scam.  Given how I explain it I can't really blame her though I don't think it's a scam myself.

 

          mwc

 

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Exactly... From what I've gathered, with just the information provided here, in order for me to even get one, single bitcoin, I have to cough up $568.

 

Sorry but, I don't have that kind of money to just play around with. Let alone not having something material to show for it.

     I'm pretty sure a single BitCoin is closer to $3000 now.  It's really shot up recently.  Yep, $2786.97 according to Google just now.  You should have bought it at $586.

 

          mwc

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As I see it, any new crypto currency is still WAY too new.  Unless you can drop $10K, $50K, or more and not lose sleep at night, then go ahead, but as I see it, you might do better at the casino table in Vegas.  

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     I'm pretty sure a single BitCoin is closer to $3000 now.  It's really shot up recently.  Yep, $2786.97 according to Google just now.  You should have bought it at $586.

 

          mwc

 

If Bitcoin ends up winning the race and becomes the new currency that replaces dollars, etc..., it's probably still wildly cheap. But the risks are enormous. There are no barriers to other crypto-currencies taking over. And, what if some smartass figures out a way to hack it? It will go to zero overnight. Folks smarter than me and who know a lot more about it than me don't seem to think it's hackable (at least as I understand it), but... 

I hope it's (crypto) successful. I'd love to see governments lose their power to control the money supply. It would be a mind-blowing, life changing, world-changing development. 

 

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If Bitcoin ends up winning the race and becomes the new currency that replaces dollars, etc..., it's probably still wildly cheap. But the risks are enormous. There are no barriers to other crypto-currencies taking over. And, what if some smartass figures out a way to hack it? It will go to zero overnight. Folks smarter than me and who know a lot more about it than me don't seem to think it's hackable (at least as I understand it), but... 

I hope it's (crypto) successful. I'd love to see governments lose their power to control the money supply. It would be a mind-blowing, life changing, world-changing development. 

 

     As I understand it all there's nothing really to hack.  It's a giant decentralized ledger that stores transactional data.  If you alter that information you destroy the chain.  So all transactions are written into this ledger.  You can pretty much go look at them if you're so inclined.  Think about it sort of along the lines of a video Torrent.  The video is not on any one computer but bits of the video are spread out out lots of computers.  If anyone were to alter their piece for some reason that piece fails the checksum and is no longer useful as a part of the torrent.  Now, torrents work differently so this is just a way to visualize the overall concept.

 

     Your personal account(s) could be stolen.  You have a key (or keys) that are associated with you (your stuff).  And you send transactions into/out of these.  But you can't spend without the key pair (a private key).  So if you lose your private key it's like losing your wallet full of money.  You're stuck.  If you know your key you can still see your information in the ledger, you or anyone can still  deposit funds into this account, but you can't do anything with it since there's no way to verify it's yours.  It's a one way ticket at this point.  A hacker could obtain your private key and gain access to your stuff that way. 

 

     I think there's also ways they could technically take over large enough portions of the currency so as to manipulate it but that's harder to do.  I wouldn't say impossible but probably not something that would happen in the near future.

 

          mwc

 

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As I see it, any new crypto currency is still WAY too new.  Unless you can drop $10K, $50K, or more and not lose sleep at night, then go ahead, but as I see it, you might do better at the casino table in Vegas.  

     You have some of the same reservations I have.

 

     On the other hand, sometimes it's fun, and profitable, but fun nonetheless to take a gamble on something like this.

 

          mwc

 

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I started using BTC somewhat early, trying still another investment toy. It's had serious ups and downs, and at this time one hellova unfettered rise.

As for the mining sports, no I do not. BTC does offer a method with my suppliers overseas to be paid r i g h t now instead of when the check clears.

 

Works OK, bought low, sat on mine when panic hit, letting BTC do its things with cash that was not in any danger of a hard loss.

 

kL

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     So no miners?  At least so far.

 

     I tried mining LiteCoin with a few spare cycles over the past few days (since I always leave my PC on) and it worked but was far from profitable.  At the rate I was going I was mining myself into debt.  But it was fine for showing me how it all sort of worked.  I got it going on my system and then others to see how they all worked together.  LiteCoin just isn't worth mining however.  It's easy to get going though so there's that.

 

     Just tried switching to EtherClassic and things fell apart.  My hardware isn't up to snuff.  Looks like I'd need to make a hardware investment just to test things out there.  It's not about CPU but GPU and I have a modest GPU (and more GPU's is really the name of the game here).

 

     But when testing things out I'm not too concerned with all these things.  I'm trying to just wrap my mind around everything.

 

          mwc

 

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I haven't mined any coins, but i've traded both ETH and BTC.  At one point last year I had 40 BTC, but sold 30 in January when it tanked when all of the hard fork drama started.  Now I regret selling, but I still have 10 which I am holding.

 

As for ETH, I was in at way back before the hard fork (had 350 coins I was buying around $8).  That I sold when it was hacked around $14'ish Iand the DAO (distributed autonomous organization) was disbanded.  At that time ETH seemed like a flop, but then after the hard fork it re-grouped and got it's shit together and now is north of $250.  Ouch I sold a bit early I would say :(.

 

As for BTC I think it's going way higher.  People will say it's a bubble, blah blah but i've traded in and around two bubbles (dot com and real estate), so I have enough experience to believe this is not a bubble, at least not at the moment.  The entire BTC market cap is only about 35 billion, which is tiny.   And I still run into people daily that wouldn't buy BTC or any other alt coin if you gave them the money free.  They don't understand it and think it's for hackers, drug dealers, terrorists and pornographers.   That is not the sentiment of a bubble, where the average joe is desperately putting stock and real estate downpayments on their credit cards to get in on the action, like they did in previous bubbles, lol.  When people start doing that with bitcoins, then maybe I would be concerned about a bubble.  That is years away, IMO.

 

I am holding my 10 BTC for the long haul, it's clearly in a bull market on steadily increasing volume so I see no reason to sell.

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     So what's the best(?) way to get your money in/out (ie. convert altcoin to USD)?  How's this all work?  Any pointers?

 

          mwc

 

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Here Lauren Southern gives her views on crypto currency. She is interested because its a people controlled currency, not government. I'd imagine Lauren is right up BO's alley with many of her views :D (Mine too)

 

 

 

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     So what's the best(?) way to get your money in/out (ie. convert altcoin to USD)?  How's this all work?  Any pointers?

 

          mwc

 

 

You can use a exchange the buy BTC or ETC like Coinbase or Gemini in the US (I have accounts with both but prefer Gemini because the fees are much lower).  But you can't trade the alts on Coinbase or Gemini.  If you want to trade alts I think you have to buy BTC  first and then send them to an online wallet, then send those to an exchange like Poloniex since you can't fund those with USD you have to fund them with BTC.  You may be able to send BTC to an online wallet from Coinbase but not totally sure, for some reason I was thinking you could not do that on Gemini.  

 

I actually want to start trading alts on Poloniex (that seems to be the best exchange), but it's a bit of a pain in the ass funding the account so I haven't done it yet.  I think many of these exchanges don't take cash because then they would be subjected to a lot stricter government control, so they don't.   If I figure it out anytime soon like in the next couple weeks i'll let you know. 

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You may be interested in reading this:

 

The Natural Buyers of Bitcoin are Ransomare Victims?

 

That's the allegation made this morning, allegedly: The natural "buyers" of Bitcoin are the victims of ransomware attacks.

Well, if that's the driver of said "value" then the operation of such an "exchange" is economically indistinguishable from operating a continuing criminal enterprise -- that is, Racketeering. [Snipped]

 

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=232109

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You may be interested in reading this:

 

The Natural Buyers of Bitcoin are Ransomare Victims?

 

That's the allegation made this morning, allegedly: The natural "buyers" of Bitcoin are the victims of ransomware attacks.

Well, if that's the driver of said "value" then the operation of such an "exchange" is economically indistinguishable from operating a continuing criminal enterprise -- that is, Racketeering. [Snipped]

 

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=232109

 

How do you make ransomware disappear?  Go after what makes it profitable.

 

Using the same line of reasoning ~ how do we make all for-profit crimes disappear ~ if we simply seize and abolish the use of all cash worldwide then all crimes involving usd, pesos, yuan, yen, rubles, rupees, drachma, rial, deutche mark, and all other forms of cash will cease 'cos the bad guys won't be able to profit.  Brilliant :58:

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     Well, it took some work but I've got my test rig going.  I had a hell of a time finding a suitable GPU.  They're rare as hens teeth.  But I stumbled across one today.  I tried putting it into my Linux box but the power supply was too weak so I crammed it into my desktop.  Unfortunately, that throws my numbers off a bit since it's a power hog, unlike the other box but I'll have to fiddle with the numbers to account for that.

 

     Anyhow, it's currently mining away.  I'm going to let it go awhile to see what sort of numbers I get but unlike my earlier test it looks like I'm now slightly ahead of the curve just like I thought I should be.  I've got to see if this holds up and how payouts work.

 

          mwc

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