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mwc

Virtual currencies

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     Well, it took some work but I've got my test rig going.  I had a hell of a time finding a suitable GPU.  They're rare as hens teeth.  But I stumbled across one today.  I tried putting it into my Linux box but the power supply was too weak so I crammed it into my desktop.  Unfortunately, that throws my numbers off a bit since it's a power hog, unlike the other box but I'll have to fiddle with the numbers to account for that.

 

     Anyhow, it's currently mining away.  I'm going to let it go awhile to see what sort of numbers I get but unlike my earlier test it looks like I'm now slightly ahead of the curve just like I thought I should be.  I've got to see if this holds up and how payouts work.

 

          mwc

 

Are you mining Bitcoin or something else? 

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Are you mining Bitcoin or something else? 

     Bitcoin is pretty much a non-starter without investing in custom ASICs.

 

     I'm thinking of trying my hand at Ethereum, Ethereum Classic and Zcash.  Right now I'm just giving Ether a try.  I just need something to actually work and hopefully transfer something to the corresponding wallet so that I can see things are set up good enough to keep going.

 

     Anyhow, the numbers I'm seeing look like they're going to need a day or so to stabilize.  They look okay on my side but on the pool side they look way low (but moving which is why I think it just needs time).

 

          mwc

 

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     Ether really shot up today.  From around $280 to $360.

 

     Anyhow, I've mined a sweet 0.01396 worth now.  I have to wait until I've mined 0.05 for a payout (the minimum for the pool I'm in) to my wallet so I'm roughly a quarter of the way there.  Until then I won't know for sure that the whole setup is working.

 

     At this rate my test shows that, all things considered, I'm pulling in more than I'm paying out (for this task since I'm not including existing expenses like internet for example).  Not a lot but I'm ahead.

 

          mwc

 

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Ether has basically gone up 500% in just about a month.  It's quite impressive and it's value is approaching that of BTC on a market cap basis, but I can't figure out why it deserves that valuation being that it's only been around a couple of years and doesn't have the adoption of BTC.   I really think it's all based on hype, which is why I have been hesitant to buy any.    These coins are kind of like the stock market though, one coin gets run up then eventually traders take profits and rotate their money into another coin and run that one up.  So once profit taking on ETH starts I wouldn't be surprised to see it drop 40% in a hurry.

 

Now Dash is being run up... I was just looking at that one yesterday and was thinking of buying...

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Ether has basically gone up 500% in just about a month.  It's quite impressive and it's value is approaching that of BTC on a market cap basis, but I can't figure out why it deserves that valuation being that it's only been around a couple of years and doesn't have the adoption of BTC.   I really think it's all based on hype, which is why I have been hesitant to buy any.    These coins are kind of like the stock market though, one coin gets run up then eventually traders take profits and rotate their money into another coin and run that one up.  So once profit taking on ETH starts I wouldn't be surprised to see it drop 40% in a hurry.

 

Now Dash is being run up... I was just looking at that one yesterday and was thinking of buying...

 

What are the spreads like on these? I imagine some of the trading is thinner than the pink sheets market, making it difficult to get in or get out near the ask. BTC seems like it would be a lot better as it has enough recognition that it's probably seeing some decent trading volume. The smaller currencies have to have serious OTC risk. 

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What are the spreads like on these? I imagine some of the trading is thinner than the pink sheets market, making it difficult to get in or get out near the ask. BTC seems like it would be a lot better as it has enough recognition that it's probably seeing some decent trading volume. The smaller currencies have to have serious OTC risk. 

 

Believe it or not, the bigger coins are liquid enough that I have seen the spread as tight as one penny between bid/ask.    I would say the average spread is probably $5 between bid/ask.  The biggest spread i've seen on Bitcoin is probably $20 which really isn't that big considering the price.  And that was during a selloff.  That's when I have really paid attention to Bitcoin liquidity is when there's bad news of some sort and a panic (like a hacking or like when China suddenly halts bitcoin withdraws), and there was still enough buy side liquidity to make getting out pretty easy. 

 

Check out this site, (Poloniex), which shows the major coins along with live charts, order book and sales.  This is the site I go to most often for cryptocurrency data, its the best:

 

https://poloniex.com/exchange#usdt_btc

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By the way, unlike the stock market the cryptocurrency market is truly 24/7/365 so you can trade when you can't sleep :P

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The Plusses and Minuses of Bitcoin and Blockchain

If bitcoin is dying as I suggested, it’s making one heck of a final stand!

It reminds me of the actor Paul Reubens’ death scene in the campy classic, Buffy the Vampire Slayer.” (He’s…still… dying…)

But I stand by my premise.

 

The exact things that make bitcoin attractive – anonymity, ease of transfer from one party to another, lack of government oversight, accessible in any country without capital controls, not subject to banking regulations – are denounced by national governments. [Snipped]

https://economyandmarkets.com/markets/gold/rodney-johnson-plusses-minuses-bitcoin-blockchain-2/

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     I woke up and had 0.049...<some odd number> of Ether in my wallet.  That translates to $18.99 as of right now (remember it fluctuates all the time).

 

     So it worked.  Yay.

 

          mwc

 

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     I woke up and had 0.049...<some odd number> of Ether in my wallet.  That translates to $18.99 as of right now (remember it fluctuates all the time).

 

     So it worked.  Yay.

 

          mwc

 

 

If it's earning a net profit, what would it take to ramp up the returns? Can you rig one computer to mine multiples of what you're doing now? Would you need to have more than one computer? Seems if you can work out a few bugs and figure out how to do this as efficiently as possible, you can design your own money tree. Isn't that what is going on in China? (Think I read that in this thread earlier)

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If it's earning a net profit, what would it take to ramp up the returns? Can you rig one computer to mine multiples of what you're doing now? Would you need to have more than one computer? Seems if you can work out a few bugs and figure out how to do this as efficiently as possible, you can design your own money tree. Isn't that what is going on in China? (Think I read that in this thread earlier)

     Yes to pretty much all of these.

 

     The problem is finding the parts.  People have created large farms of these things and there's a dearth of parts right now.  I lucked into my GPU that I started to test with.  It was a returned part otherwise there were literally none on the shelf.  I've checked both online and brick and mortar and it's essentially the same story.

 

     I have ramped up a bit using less capable parts I've been able to find.  I have computers that I leave on 24/7 already so after I could see things playing out close to the numbers I expected I drove around and bought up the cards I could find (not many...they're not in stock as I explained) and shoved them into my other systems then added them to my mining pool.  Now, a couple of higher power cards could easily outrun them all but beggars can't be choosers and all that but the everything works out to about the same.  My current ROI on the new parts will be about 100 days since I'm using existing systems that I've had for several years so I'm not going to bother digging out those old expenses to figure them in.  If I build from scratch that will be a little longer of course but I can't work that out until I know what I'm going to build and I'm still working that out given current stock.

 

     I'm hoping to get something a rig built within the next week or so.  It will take over for the desktops.  Then I imagine I'll go around adding cards back into the desktops, wash, rinse, repeat, until I can get a more steady supply of parts or the whole thing turns to crap.  I'm just betting it holds for at least a year so I can recoup my investment.  I can always switch out to mining another currency too now that I understand the basics (it's just a matter of getting things switched over and configured).

 

          mwc

 

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Something to consider about virtual currencies held in uS:

Congress submits bill making it illegal to hold cash, Bitcoin, or other assets outside of a bank without informing them in writing

 

By The Daily Economist

 

Just as the War on Drugs was never actually about slowing down or stopping the import and use of illegal narcotics, so too was the spurious War on Terror not about stopping individuals or groups from inciting violence for political means.  In fact, we already know that U.S. agencies have funded, trained, and armed the very terror groups that are supposedly on the FBI’s Terror Watch List when they supported them in the taking over of Libya, and in the attemp to take over Syria.

 

So the question then has to be asked… what are the purposes behind the ideological wars against drugs and terror really all about?  Well, since the real victims going back to the 1970’s when the War on Drugs was instituted by President Richard Nixon have been the millions of Americans incarcerated for victimless crimes, and the billions of dollars seized without a trial in what is known as Civil Forfeiture, then it is fairly obvious who these wars were really focused against.

 

And since the advent of the Patriot Act, which hasn’t stopped a single terrorist or terror event following the terror attacks on 9/11, the ability of Americans to do as they please with their own money has been stymied in the government’s attempt to monitor and regulate every single transaction individuals choose to conduct.

 

However, with the rise of cryptocurrencies, and the new fears coming out that decentralized virtual money could actually start or magnify a financial crisis, Congress on May 25 has submitted a bill making it illegal, and placing individuals subject to asset confiscation and imprisonment, for anyone to have a medium size amount of cash, Bitcoin, etc… outside of a bank without telling the government how much you have, where you have it, and why you have it through the filling out of new Federal forms.

..snipped rest of VERY topic article

kL

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^^^kinda took the fun out of it, huh?^^^

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Something to consider about virtual currencies held in uS:

Congress submits bill making it illegal to hold cash, Bitcoin, or other assets outside of a bank without informing them in writing

 

By The Daily Economist

 

Just as the War on Drugs was never actually about slowing down or stopping the import and use of illegal narcotics, so too was the spurious War on Terror not about stopping individuals or groups from inciting violence for political means.  In fact, we already know that U.S. agencies have funded, trained, and armed the very terror groups that are supposedly on the FBI’s Terror Watch List when they supported them in the taking over of Libya, and in the attemp to take over Syria.

 

So the question then has to be asked… what are the purposes behind the ideological wars against drugs and terror really all about?  Well, since the real victims going back to the 1970’s when the War on Drugs was instituted by President Richard Nixon have been the millions of Americans incarcerated for victimless crimes, and the billions of dollars seized without a trial in what is known as Civil Forfeiture, then it is fairly obvious who these wars were really focused against.

 

And since the advent of the Patriot Act, which hasn’t stopped a single terrorist or terror event following the terror attacks on 9/11, the ability of Americans to do as they please with their own money has been stymied in the government’s attempt to monitor and regulate every single transaction individuals choose to conduct.

 

However, with the rise of cryptocurrencies, and the new fears coming out that decentralized virtual money could actually start or magnify a financial crisis, Congress on May 25 has submitted a bill making it illegal, and placing individuals subject to asset confiscation and imprisonment, for anyone to have a medium size amount of cash, Bitcoin, etc… outside of a bank without telling the government how much you have, where you have it, and why you have it through the filling out of new Federal forms.

..snipped rest of VERY topic article

kL

     Boo!  Because I'm really starting to get the hang of mining this shit.  My current setup is paying out a little bit every 40 hours (give or take) and I'm in switching into ramp-up mode (as I can find parts which are still rare as hens teeth).

 

     Wasn't looking to avoid taxes.  Was looking to avoid getting fucked though.

 

          mwc

 

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I've got a pretty powerful rig. I know nowadays GPUs are the main driving force, but I'm curious about the cost/benefit here. I have an NVIDIA GTX 1080, and cranking that out 24/7 would mean I would need to be earning double digits per day to make I profit since electricity is so expensive here. That said, I wouldn't mind doing it for a little while just for some shits and giggles.

 

EDIT: missed the word "mind"

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I've got a pretty powerful rig. I know nowadays GPUs are the main driving force, but I'm curious about the cost/benefit here. I have an NVIDIA GTX 1080, and cranking that out 24/7 would mean I would need to be earning double digits per day to make I profit since electricity is so expensive here. That said, I wouldn't doing it for a little while just for some shits and giggles.

     A quick look at the numbers for that card shows me you'd probably lose money with it if you mined Ether (I'm not going to say I'm the final word here, you'd need to figure that out yourself, but I'm leaning hard toward losing money but if you just want some Ether without "paying" fiat currency then consider this to be the cost to get some...it would take you over a year to mine 1 Ether running 24/7 if I looked up the right card and Ether is switching from Proof of Work to Proof of Stake within that time so you'll likely never get there).

 

     There may be some other coin that it would be better suited to mine but I didn't look around.

 

          mwc

 

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So I decided to actually crunch the numbers a bit, and worst case scenario isn't as bad as I had thought. Powering my desktop all day every day would work out being about $5 a day. Still, that means I'd need to earn > $5 per day to cover my electricity costs. Of course, the real benefit here is the future valuation of the money you earn so immediate pay off isn't necessary and working at a loss now could pay out in the long run. 

 

 

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So I decided to actually crunch the numbers a bit, and worst case scenario isn't as bad as I had thought. Powering my desktop all day every day would work out being about $5 a day. Still, that means I'd need to earn > $5 per day to cover my electricity costs. Of course, the real benefit here is the future valuation of the money you earn so immediate pay off isn't necessary and working at a loss now could pay out in the long run. 

     I think your card only has about 4 MH/s for Ether so you're looking at earning under a dollar a day if you run it flat out.  And that card alone is pulling 180 watts.  Those two things alone put you into the red.  But if you're hedging against a future gain, like I said, there's nothing wrong with just giving it a go.  Keep in mind that every time a new DAG is released (every few days) your hashing power diminishes.  So you'll need to up your game just to tread water or your losses will increase.

 

     But don't let me dissuade you.  Do what I did and test it out to see how the numbers work on your system and go from there.  I'd like to know how it plays out for someone else.

 

          mwc

 

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