Need help deprogramming my family.. pls read!

[jimmys]

Hi everyone,

 

I was a full-on Christian until 4 years ago. It really messed me up. The rest of my family are still Christians, and it is really messing them up. My brother driving himself crazy (to the point of nervous breakdowns) because he once "sinned against the holy spirit" and worries there can never be salvation for him. My mother can't deal with the world, has no friends and consoles herself by running into her room and reading the bible and praying (the same thing she used to do when my father would beat the shit out of us for no reason). My dad has an OK life, (apart from the problems Christianity have caused his wife/kids) and waves any accusation that he isn't a real Christian away by saying no man is perfect and God forgives him. All he does is watch Christian preachers on youtube. All day long.

 

I really need to do something before my mother or brother go totally mental and do real physical harm to themselves/each other. Just imagine the most dysfunctional household, and multiply it by 10. They aren't "Sunday Christians", they are full-on zealots. Growing up, everything led to hell, everyone outside church is evil and damned, and it's better to be poor and unsuccessful and a virgin on earth than to go to hell. 40 year old virgin? My brother. This religion has decimated our family. Before (until my early teens), we were normal and I have great memories of that. That was 25 years ago. After that, a whole collection of Chick tracts and scary documentaries ruled our minds and our lives.

 

I am open to suggestions, but I believe the key is my father and his belief that "there are no errors in the bible". My mother will wave away contradictions in the bible but my father will actually look at them and try to figure them out. Atheist books like Dawkins aren't soft enough and he would go on the defensive immediately. I was thinking of letting him read "Jesus, Interrupted", because it attacks the bible using the bible, rather than attacking Christians directly. What do you think, is there a better, softer one than that?

 

I would appreciate are some "iron clad" contradictions, where there is no room for interpretations. I would rather have 10 really good ones than 100 of varying rebuttability. The "take a staff" vs "take no staff" is very strong, even the rebuttal is very very weak

 

https://answersingenesis.org/contradictions-in-the-bible/a-staff-or-not/

 

Any other suggestions welcome, and thanks for reading my post!

 

-Jim

[Margee]

Welcome to Ex-c jimmys. So sorry you are mixed up in a religious family. It causes such pain for everyone. The sad thing is is that they all must be open to hearing  suggestions and it doesn't sound like it to me. Do they know you don't believe anymore?  Stay close to us so you don't lose it! Many good suggestions will come your way. Glad you are with us.

(hug)

[LogicalFallacy]

 

I would appreciate are some "iron clad" contradictions, where there is no room for interpretations. I would rather have 10 really good ones than 100 of varying rebuttability. The "take a staff" vs "take no staff" is very strong, even the rebuttal is very very weak

 

https://answersingenesis.org/contradictions-in-the-bible/a-staff-or-not/

 

Any other suggestions welcome, and thanks for reading my post!

 

-Jim

 

 

Hi Jim

 

Welcome to Ex-C. Coming from a fundy family who hand waves away everything I sympathise with you. I have reached the point where I no longer attempt to engage at religious conversations with them.

 

Regarding the quoted portion above, the short answer is there isn't any. You can dump facts on a Christian until they are buried in them and they will still say the earth is 6,000 years old, and evolution is a conspiracy to destroy God.

 

I'm currently debating a Christian regarding the Ezekiel prophesy against Tyre. This is probably the hardest prophesy in the bible to rebut, and in parts is so vague and allows for so much interpretation by either side that pinning either side down on facts is near impossible.

 

I'll post you a link later with contradictions

 

Regards

LF

 

 

[sdelsolray]

 

Hi everyone,

 

I was a full-on Christian until 4 years ago. It really messed me up. The rest of my family are still Christians, and it is really messing them up. My brother driving himself crazy (to the point of nervous breakdowns) because he once "sinned against the holy spirit" and worries there can never be salvation for him. My mother can't deal with the world, has no friends and consoles herself by running into her room and reading the bible and praying (the same thing she used to do when my father would beat the shit out of us for no reason). My dad has an OK life, (apart from the problems Christianity have caused his wife/kids) and waves any accusation that he isn't a real Christian away by saying no man is perfect and God forgives him. All he does is watch Christian preachers on youtube. All day long.

 

I really need to do something before my mother or brother go totally mental and do real physical harm to themselves/each other. Just imagine the most dysfunctional household, and multiply it by 10. They aren't "Sunday Christians", they are full-on zealots. Growing up, everything led to hell, everyone outside church is evil and damned, and it's better to be poor and unsuccessful and a virgin on earth than to go to hell. 40 year old virgin? My brother. This religion has decimated our family. Before (until my early teens), we were normal and I have great memories of that. That was 25 years ago. After that, a whole collection of Chick tracts and scary documentaries ruled our minds and our lives.

 

I am open to suggestions, but I believe the key is my father and his belief that "there are no errors in the bible". My mother will wave away contradictions in the bible but my father will actually look at them and try to figure them out. Atheist books like Dawkins aren't soft enough and he would go on the defensive immediately. I was thinking of letting him read "Jesus, Interrupted", because it attacks the bible using the bible, rather than attacking Christians directly. What do you think, is there a better, softer one than that?

 

I would appreciate are some "iron clad" contradictions, where there is no room for interpretations. I would rather have 10 really good ones than 100 of varying rebuttability. The "take a staff" vs "take no staff" is very strong, even the rebuttal is very very weak

 

https://answersingenesis.org/contradictions-in-the-bible/a-staff-or-not/

 

Any other suggestions welcome, and thanks for reading my post!

 

-Jim

 

You are in a difficult situation through not fault of your own.  Fortunately, you realize this, which is 50% of the your battle right there.  As to solving the other 50%, most of that has to do with your family members, their dysfunctions and your desire to help them.  Although this is not what you might expect, I suggest you simply take the high road...morally, ethically, intellectually, emotionally and psychologically.  Appropriate actions and words will do this.  Be an example of a good human being.  Disclose what is important (to you) in life.  Help your brother alone.  Your parents might be too far gone.  Plan your separation and self sufficiency for both yourself and your brother.  He'll appreaciate it.

[Guest]

 

 

You can dump facts on a Christian until they are buried in them and they will still say the earth is 6,000 years old, and evolution is a conspiracy to destroy God.

 

I couldn't agree more with this.  In my humble opinion, its not really your responsibility to deprogram your family, nor should you assume the responsibility of being the police officer, trying to prevent them from doing harm to themselves or each other.  You can plant some seeds of doubt, maybe give them some books to read but then you have to walk away. If your family starts to lose it emotionally, try to keep the upper hand by remaining calm, cool and collected. And if you need to, call professionals to assist in dealing with any physical threats.  For your own sanity it sounds like you need to remove yourself from such a toxic environment.  In the end, the only person you can control is you.

I found the book , "Trusting Doubt" by Valerie Tarico to be more of a soft approach that examines the cognitive dissonance related to how immoral and unjust the God of the bible is. 

My heart goes out to you.  I hope you and your family get the help you need. 

[Tsathoggua9]

I think the best thing to do is just slowly disengage with them. You don't have to abandon your family; just find other non-religious people to pal around with.

Develop other interests and broaden your horizons. Live your own life! You can visit them and talk about non-religious matters from time to time. Attempting to directly de-convert a hard-line fundamentalist is a foolhardy proposition. Perhaps eventually, one of them might begin to doubt, But you can't count on that happening...

[midniterider]

 

Jim,

 

There is nothing you can do unless they want to do something.  That simple.  The best you can do is be close by, but don't allow it to suck you in and ruin your life.  You can't help someone unless you are secure.  That is why airlines tell passengers if there is a loss in air pressure that causes the masks to drop from the ceiling, to put yours on first THEN help the person next to you.  You cannot help someone unless you are breathing first.  Likewise, you need to be sure you are realtively healthy before you can help them be healthy. 

 

I'm with B.O. on this. My first priority would be self preservation. If they are convicted in Christ right now why would they want to read a book debunking religion?

[Rounin]

It's great that you're trying, and I support you 100% on that, but it could turn out to be as difficult to change their mind as changing your mind would be for them, so be prepared for an uphill battle.

Your brother sounds like he could first and foremost use help from a highly qualified mental health professional. Is it possible that you could suggest that to him first?

[disillusioned]

I'm not sure that trying to force them to see that you are right is going to work. I'd say let them know you're out and explain why, and then leave it alone. Make your life better. Maybe they'll realize that the reason you're happier than them is that you're not a Christian. Let your light shine, and all that.

[Riversong]

I think the above posts are great. I agree that it is not your responsibilty to save your family. In all likelihood, it will not change them and it will place a huge burden on you. I'd second the suggestion of seeing if any of you are able to get into therapy. It could help you in expectations/boundaries/etc and them with their own issues. 

 

Best of luck!  

[jimmys]

Wow! Thank you all so much for your replies and support, it really means a lot. I wasn't expecting it.

 

I have told my family that I am no longer a Christian.. and I can't deal with them anymore. They are trying to cut me off from everything. My dad said the better off someone is, the less they need God. So I think that's exactly what they are doing, hoping my life turns so bad I will realize I need God.

 

The problem is I am seriously ill. Only because I had a serious accident and suddenly had lots of time to actually read the bible and criticisms thereof that my eyes were opened, which led to me realizing I'd wasted my life on this garbage. Now that I'm free from the prison of belief, I can't enjoy life because I am in constant physical pain. THE IRONY!

 

Thanks so much again to each of you for replying! Therapy would be great, all of us in a room with a counsellor would help a lot.

 

You people are awesome.

[MOHO]

 

Wow! Thank you all so much for your replies and support, it really means a lot. I wasn't expecting it.

 

I have told my family that I am no longer a Christian.. and I can't deal with them anymore. They are trying to cut me off from everything. My dad said the better off someone is, the less they need God. So I think that's exactly what they are doing, hoping my life turns so bad I will realize I need God.

 

The problem is I am seriously ill. Only because I had a serious accident and suddenly had lots of time to actually read the bible and criticisms thereof that my eyes were opened, which led to me realizing I'd wasted my life on this garbage. Now that I'm free from the prison of belief, I can't enjoy life because I am in constant physical pain. THE IRONY!

 

Thanks so much again to each of you for replying! Therapy would be great, all of us in a room with a counsellor would help a lot.

 

You people are awesome.

 

 

@jimmys,

Welcome to intellectual freedom.

Now get better so you can enjoy more of it.

[Tsathoggua9]

 

Wow! Thank you all so much for your replies and support, it really means a lot. I wasn't expecting it.

 

I have told my family that I am no longer a Christian.. and I can't deal with them anymore. They are trying to cut me off from everything. My dad said the better off someone is, the less they need God. So I think that's exactly what they are doing, hoping my life turns so bad I will realize I need God.

 

The problem is I am seriously ill. Only because I had a serious accident and suddenly had lots of time to actually read the bible and criticisms thereof that my eyes were opened, which led to me realizing I'd wasted my life on this garbage. Now that I'm free from the prison of belief, I can't enjoy life because I am in constant physical pain. THE IRONY!

 

Thanks so much again to each of you for replying! Therapy would be great, all of us in a room with a counsellor would help a lot.

 

You people are awesome.

 

I'm sorry that they reacted in this fashion. But at least you are now free, and know that you can go your own way. Do you have something to take for the pain?

[★ Citsonga ★]

I maxed out my "likes" for the day already. Bummer.

 

 

I have told my family that I am no longer a Christian.. and I can't deal with them anymore. They are trying to cut me off from everything. My dad said the better off someone is, the less they need God. So I think that's exactly what they are doing, hoping my life turns so bad I will realize I need God.

 

That is quite childish, but it's not surprising. Why can't they see that a "God" would be able to know what would bring you back to him and would be capable of orchestrating it himself? The fact that your father feels the need to go to extreme measures to intervene on his own seems to imply that he subconsciously knows that his "God" won't actually do anything. 

 

 

The problem is I am seriously ill. Only because I had a serious accident and suddenly had lots of time to actually read the bible and criticisms thereof that my eyes were opened, which led to me realizing I'd wasted my life on this garbage. Now that I'm free from the prison of belief, I can't enjoy life because I am in constant physical pain. THE IRONY!

 

That is so sad to hear. I can't imagine what it's like to be in constant pain. Hopefully the prospects are good for a full recovery.