WLC on the Rise of New Atheists

[LogicalFallacy]

 

I think they are blinding themselves to the fact that the vast majority of atheists are atheist because they don't find good reasons to believe in any Gods. I think a rise in popular moment will help growth because as others realize they are not alone they feel encouraged to 'come out'. What WLC doesn't discuss is the large undercurrent of doubt in God that exists in those who don't call themselves atheist, and even in the christian community.

 

The other thing that beggars belief is the concern with the rise of atheism. Jesus said "many are called, few are chosen" "As it was in the days of Noah where few were saved". Jesus makes it plain that he expected Gods chosen to be few in number. Thus I am surprised that Christians bewail the loss of numbers of Christians rather than proclaiming that this is actually a sign of the end where few would be saved.

[disillusioned]

 

 

The other thing that beggars belief is the concern with the rise of atheism. Jesus said "many are called, few are chosen" "As it was in the days of Noah where few were saved". Jesus makes it plain that he expected Gods chosen to be few in number. Thus I am surprised that Christians bewail the loss of numbers of Christians rather than proclaiming that this is actually a sign of the end where few would be saved.

 

I know quite a few Christians who argue, as you suggested they ought, that this is a "sign of the times". But I've also heard it said many times that Christianity is growing like never before, so who knows? 

[LogicalFallacy]

 

 

I know quite a few Christians who argue, as you suggested they ought, that this is a "sign of the times". But I'very also heard it said many times that Christianity is growing like never before, so who knows? 

 

But is actually hardcore belief in God growing? I'm sure bible literalism is falling.

 

Christianity, Islam, Hinduism are all growing for one very simple reason. It has nothing to do with truth, its called population mechanics. But Christians won't admit this. People aren't coming to god because its true, they are born into it and never leave.

[♦ ficino ♦]

I've been following stats on church attendance, baptisms, etc. for some years now. As far as I know, polls and surveys from different organizations, even Christian ones like Barna, agree that church attendance and affiliation is falling at a faster rate. The Southern Baptist Convention has been increasingly worried. Over on Roll To Disbelieve, Captain Cassidy posts frequently on how the numbers look. Cf. e.g. today's:

 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/rolltodisbelieve/

[disillusioned]

The people in my life who make such claims are generally talking about places that are far away. Ten to fifteen years ago it was always China that they were talking about. Nowadays it's the middle east. I think it's almost indisputably the case that in the west religiosity is fading, but the believers that I know take comfort in the "fact" that in the world as a whole, Christianity is growing at an unprecedented rate.

[JadedAtheist]

From what I've read it seems like Christianity is blossoming in all parts of Africa and China while it withers away in the west.

 

I'd have to hear his talk to get more context of who he is referring to specifically, but while I don't think he's wrong that pop culture is helping normalise atheism in the US, I think it's just slander saying the accomplishments of pop culture figures are basically ridiculed by their peers, if by pop culture figures he refers to Dawkins, NDT and Lawrence Krauss (just to name a couple off the top of my head). 

 

The problem here is WLC is rather US centric, in the western world the US stands out in its religiousity. Atheism may be becoming normalised in the US now thanks to certain figures and their efforts, but it's been the norm elsewhere for far, far longer.

[disillusioned]

 

 

The problem here is WLC is rather US centric, in the western world the US stands out in its religiousity. Atheism may be becoming normalised in the US now thanks to certain figures and their efforts, but it's been the norm elsewhere for far, far longer.

 

Agreed.

[OrdinaryClay]

 

 

I think they are blinding themselves to the fact that the vast majority of atheists are atheist because they don't find good reasons to believe in any Gods. I think a rise in popular moment will help growth because as others realize they are not alone they feel encouraged to 'come out'. What WLC doesn't discuss is the large undercurrent of doubt in God that exists in those who don't call themselves atheist, and even in the christian community.

 

The other thing that beggars belief is the concern with the rise of atheism. Jesus said "many are called, few are chosen" "As it was in the days of Noah where few were saved". Jesus makes it plain that he expected Gods chosen to be few in number. Thus I am surprised that Christians bewail the loss of numbers of Christians rather than proclaiming that this is actually a sign of the end where few would be saved.

I agree with you.

[♦ ficino ♦]

When did Wm Lane Craig make the above video clip? I tried to find it on his website but could not. I did see that he's been dismissing the "new atheists", and saying that academic philosophers pooh-pooh them, for at least a decade now.

[♦ ficino ♦]

 

From what I've read it seems like Christianity is blossoming in all parts of Africa and China while it withers away in the west.

 

I'd have to hear his talk to get more context of who he is referring to specifically, but while I don't think he's wrong that pop culture is helping normalise atheism in the US, I think it's just slander saying the accomplishments of pop culture figures are basically ridiculed by their peers, if by pop culture figures he refers to Dawkins, NDT and Lawrence Krauss (just to name a couple off the top of my head). 

 

The problem here is WLC is rather US centric, in the western world the US stands out in its religiousity. Atheism may be becoming normalised in the US now thanks to certain figures and their efforts, but it's been the norm elsewhere for far, far longer.

The Southern Baptists report yet another year of declining number of baptisms, members and people attending church. They do report more churches. So ... more churches, fewer people? Not a success pattern for a franchising operation.

 

http://www.bpnews.net/49005/acp--churches-up-in-2016-baptisms-membership-decline

[Aries256]

On 6/9/2017 at 1:40 PM, LogicalFallacy said:

 

But is actually hardcore belief in God growing? I'm sure bible literalism is falling.

 

Christianity, Islam, Hinduism are all growing for one very simple reason. It has nothing to do with truth, its called population mechanics. But Christians won't admit this. People aren't coming to god because its true, they are born into it and never leave.

People are born athiest, then the virus of religion gets hammered into their head under threat of severe punishment from the parents. In islamic countries it’s even worse, its be islam or be tortured, and or die a horrible death. In some ways that’s why any spread or increase in xtianity or islam happens, via force.