Jump to content
Goodbye Jesus

Fear of Death


whatisthisabout

Recommended Posts

Hi Everyone, I am new here.

 

Until I was 10, serious religious ideas were not part of my world. Then I moved and was swept up, by loving family members, into an evangelical Christian lifestyle. I was really into it. This lasted until I became a teenager, and started to see logical lapses in Christian thought. I came to view Christianity as repressive and unbelievable. Then in my early 20’s I got into Agnosticism. I started to get into people like Joseph Campbell, which lead me to an exploration and comparison of several different religious/spiritual ideas. It was all very overwhelming and I just went into a kind-of choice paralysis. I figured, who can possibly know, and left it at that for years. But within that conclusion, I always thought there was SOMETHING out there in the great beyond, I just didn’t know what. Eventually, I got into Richard Dawkins and the conclusion that there likely isn’t anything after death. We just end. And I started to wonder if that is…preferable, even though it is also terrifying. Could I accept it? How do others?

 

Sometimes I wish that I hadn’t ever been told of an afterlife. It’s devastating to lose. The hardest part to accept. The scariest loss.

 

When I was first introduced to the concept of heaven/hell (around 10 yrs. old) I was really freaked out. I cried all night. I laid in my bed, trying to imagine the concept of eternity. I tried to imagine being conscious FOREVER…and ever, and ever, and ever, and ever, and ever… I tried to pan it out and really imagine it….it scared me on a very, very deep level. Then I tried to imagine ceasing to exist, no more perception. And again, I was beyond terrified. I felt trapped and afraid.

I’m in my 30’s and I still feel this fear. I’m scared of dying. No, I’m down-in-the-depths-of-my-being TERRIFIED of the thought of letting go of my perception. My reality. My senses. Everything I know. I know it’s natural to fear death because we are programmed to survive. But how can I get calmer about this?

 

I started researching Near Death Experiences when my mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer and facing death. I wanted to understand what was going to happen to her. Some of the info out there just came across as…wacky. However, several things I read and saw seemed legitimately plausible. This is something I plan to research more. There is a new study out, with a really large number of participants, but I haven’t totally delved into that yet.

 

I am plagued by these thoughts consistently, and am feeling desperate to feel calmer and more accepting. 

 

Any advice about how to deal with this fear of letting go?

 

How do you deal with losing the comfort that religion can provide when considering death?

 

Do you think we cease to exist or go on in another form?

 

Do you think there is validity in NDE’s?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator

Welcome to Ex-C!

 

The fact is that nobody knows what happens to you after death. Not science, not religion, not NDE experiencers. We simply don't and can't know since nobody has actually come back from being dead to tell us. The comfort of a religious belief comes from accepting someone's guess as a fact.

 

All I know is that when I die, either 1. my consciousness will continue in one of the several different ways reported by NDEs, or, 2. I will not exist to experience anything at all and therefore never know the difference.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome, @whatisthisabout! I have found this community to be very welcoming, I hope you feel it too.

 

As for me, eternity used to freak me out too. Never ending is such a....weird, freaky concept. However, I never found comfort in heaven. My entire christian life, I dreaded death and going into heaven, because I thought it would be like never-ending church. To me, as I started to embrace not being a Christian anymore....I started for fear hell. To me, a complete lack of consciousness is a relief compared to eternal torment. I just think of it kind of like you not being aware before you were born. We were suddenly here, from nothingness, and we'll go back to nothingness, we won't even know. Like anesthesia or something. Just count from 10 to 1, 10.....9....8......7....sweet nothingness.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've looked at NDE but all research points to it being a function of the brain. What you find is that religious people will generally have an experience that matches what they've been taught. Muslims will meet Allah, Christians meet Jesus and Shinto's meet their ancestors.  The tunnel of light experience can be manually triggered by shock and people who are on the verge of fainting can see that effect.

People who have never been taught religion like African tribes never experience Jesus.  I believe it is a flood of endorphins and a short circuited brain pulling images together then trying to make sense of the overload.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome to the forum.  My thoughts are below.

 

...

Any advice about how to deal with this fear of letting go?

...

Not really.  My fear of death is practically non-existent, although I certainly do not want it to happen for a long time and I do not want it to be painful.

 

Each night you sleep is akin to death, at least in terms of losing consciousness.  If it is true we do not have an afterlife, then you will not experience or be conscious of anything after death.

 

...

How do you deal with losing the comfort that religion can provide when considering death?

...

 

I prefer reality over false comfort.

 

...

Do you think we cease to exist or go on in another form?

...

 

I have seen no empirical evidence which would support such wishful thinking.

 

...

Do you think there is validity in NDE’s?

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "validity".  There are certainly near death experiences.  However, the truth value of some folks who have had them seems highly suspect.  In addition, mundane scientific explanations seem to cover them quite well.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator

Welcome to Ex-c whatisthisabout. So glad you decided to join us. And thank you for sharing. What you shared was also one of my biggest fears. And losses. I somehow wanted to live forever. Doing what?, I don't know? But heaven was supposed to be Heaven and I understood that it was going to be a real good thing! So for many years, I just accepted that at the time of my own death (which I always dreaded and still do) I would at least have a wonderful reunion with all the loved ones who had already, ''crossed over'' and meet god and we would all live happily ever after forever and ever in a place with golden streets.

 

The gang here at Ex helped me with accepting the fact that it may not happen.That we may become 'nothing' after we are gone. They helped me to understand that when I went to sleep at night, it was like death in a way. While sleeping, I don't even realize that I exist until the alarm goes off in the morning. I remember 2 operations in which the surgeons cut my body from bellybutton up to my chest and across from hip to hip and because I was under anesthesia and unconscious, I did not feel a thing. (I sure did when I woke up though!! lol) They also pointed out that I hadn't been here on earth for billions of years and I did not know the difference. I don't even remember being a newborn!

 

So I had to grieve my own death and I did through many tears. I read a book one time written by the Stoics. They prepare themselves for death at any given moment. They never leave their friends or family without a big hug because they understand that life can be taken from you in a second. There was an exercise I had to do in this book and that was to completely imagine my own funeral with all the people I knew saying goodbye to me. I also had to say goodbye to myself. I had to say goodbye to beautiful green trees, flowers, my career, the blue skies, etc... (basically, anything or anybody I was going to miss here on earth) It was a very emotional exercise but I did it. And since I did this exercise, I appreciate everything so much more. I'm still afraid of how I'm going to die, but not afraid to be dead. Being afraid to die is totally normal.

 

 And besides, it has already been said that nobody knows what it's really like or if there is something after. We'll have to wait and see. And as far as I am concerned about all the NDE's, if I see white lights and a beautiful tunnel with lovely gardens, that would be an awesome way for the brain to shut down. My sister died of a brain aneurysm years ago and I was tortured by her death until I watched this brain scientist, Jill Taylor, who told her own story of when she had a stroke. It comforted me that my sister may have felt the same ecstasy that this doctor did. It's a really good (short) video to watch about NDE.

 

 I hope you learn to be OK with this issue. I understand fully that it's a hard one. You're going to be OK. It just takes time to work through all this.

((hug))

 

 

 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi, whatisthisabout! Welcome from me, too.

 

I liked Lucretius' On the Nature of Things. It is a poem about the philosophy of Epicurus. Epicurus taught that at bottom, all that exists are atoms moving at random through the void. You and I are collections of atoms, with very fine soul atoms moving the heavier atoms to make our brains and limbs work. Some day the collections that are "us" will dissolve, and those atoms will become parts of other things. There will be no "you" to mourn over its death. It will be just like the days of Hannibal in Carthage. Neither you nor I are smitten with grief that we were not alive then! We won't be alive at some future time, and it will be just the same.

 

So that gave me some help.

 

In the meantime, we have friendship, the wonder of discovery, the aim to make some contribution in the world. Some little pieces will go on, and that's pretty good, if those pieces are good.

 

I don't know that I could stand to think of existing FOREVERRRR

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Margee, thank you so much. I deeply appreciate you taking the time to craft such a meaningful message. I cried, a lot, when I read it. You really helped me. I feel you really understand what I have been struggling with.

 

I’ve been sort of doing the exercise you mentioned, in a drawn out way. I keep saying goodbye to the world around me and solidifying my acceptance of the loss. I occasionally say goodbye to myself. And, I feel more at peace. I feel more accepting. More free to let go. I think the idea of existing forever, is actually a lot scarier than not existing at all. I feel relief for the first time in…years actually. I cannot express enough my gratitude for your kind, sincere words.

 

I feel freer these past few days. And, more appreciative of life. I have been obsessed with the fear of death since my mother died a few years ago. I actually watched her die for three days and it was really traumatic. Ironically, she was incredibly brave and I was left with so much fear. Before this, I was someone who mostly avoided thinking of death, as much as possible. I had not really been closely touched by it either. No one dear to me had died, until my mother.

 

If NDE’s are simply the brain shutting down, It does seem like an alright way to slip into unawareness. Most people report a free, euphoric, peaceful feeling…and they usually don’t want to return to their bodies. I hope I have that experience. And, that when I reach there, I will want to go, and it will feel irresistible.

 

But for now, I feel the calmness I was searching for when I posted on this forum. Thank you so much for this place to explore these ideas and fears.

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

"To me, a complete lack of consciousness is a relief compared to eternal torment. I just think of it kind of like you not being aware before you were born"

 

I had such a hard time getting here. I have gotten so much relief from just reading the replies from this post and I am so grateful. I generally feel "out of place" because most people believe that there is definitely something beyond, like 83% of people according to a PEW research study. Some of my most loved and trusted family members are Christians and this is not a conversation I can have with them. Also, people don't generally like talking about death. I really appreciate your perspective on how unappealing it actually is to consider being conscious eternally... especially in never-ending church ;) 

It's been a years long process to turn my mind around and I'm glad to be facing this finally. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I had such a hard time getting here. I have gotten so much relief from just reading the replies from this post and I am so grateful. I generally feel "out of place" because most people believe that there is definitely something beyond, like 83% of people according to a PEW research study. Some of my most loved and trusted family members are Christians and this is not a conversation I can have with them. Also, people don't generally like talking about death. I really appreciate your perspective on how unappealing it actually is to consider being conscious eternally... especially in never-ending church ;) 

It's been a years long process to turn my mind around and I'm glad to be facing this finally. 

 

I just.....*shudder* I would think about how anxious I was to get out of church and go to lunch. Never ending worship, praying...."excusing my french" lol. No thanks.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have a view of death that is divergent from anything I've seen here so far.  We die a little every day as bits and pieces of ourselves go away.  I mean this literally (death at the cellular level) to metaphorically (there are places, objects, and people who are part of us that disappear forever).  Our life is a symphony of mortality that builds up to that final measure, our ultimate demise.  I was also dead from the time of the big bang to the union of a sperm and egg.  It is the default state we will be in for all but this infinitesimal sliver of time.  It is perfect neutrality as non existence is neither painful or pleasurable, good or bad.  I've given this much thought over the last few years after realizing that there probably isn't an afterlife.  The peace that I drawn from this is greater than being at the mercy of a capricious deity.  It certainly beats the infinite church service scenario that Ag_NO_stic describes.

Indeed, I find Christians to be greedy in this regard.  They can't be content with this precious sliver of consciousness they've been served.  They feel the need to consume it for eternity. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Indeed, I find Christians to be greedy in this regard.  They can't be content with this precious sliver of consciousness they've been served.  They feel the need to consume it for eternity. 

 

This has long bothered me about "heaven." Be selfless for ultimate gain.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I am plagued by these thoughts consistently, and am feeling desperate to feel calmer and more accepting. 

 

Any advice about how to deal with this fear of letting go?

 

How do you deal with losing the comfort that religion can provide when considering death?

 

Do you think we cease to exist or go on in another form?

 

Do you think there is validity in NDE’s?

It took me a couple years to fully get over all the ways Christianity fucked me up, some things were easier than others and death was surprisingly one of them (the fear of going to hell was an issue for a while, and getting over that was the key to me not worrying about death). My advice isn't advice as it is telling you the saying "time heals all wounds". It's been like 7 or 8 years since I left now and it feels like it all happened to a different person. This is quite the contrast to when I was first leaving and thought that God hadn't elected me to salvation (I was a Calvinist) and that he was going to go all Hebrews 8 on my ass.

 

As for what happens when we die and to the validity of NDEs: I don't think anything happens when we die, I think once we're dead that's it. We popped into existence out of the ether, and back into it we go in death. That said, since I've left Christianity I've felt a deeper connection to other people and other lifeforms in a way that I guess like I feel like we're all interlinked. I sometimes feel like I am getting the hint of "there's more", but I know this is more the emotional side of my brain coming into play here. As for NDEs, maybe there's something to them, but I think not.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Welcome WITA. As others have noted death is nothing to fear. There is no hell or heaven. We all symbolically die every night when we go to sleep. Death is just an eternal sleep. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

I was also dead from the time of the big bang to the union of a sperm and egg.  

I have been so consumed with considering what is going to happen to me after I die, that I haven't considered this other side of it. It's such a significant part.

 

 

It is perfect neutrality as non existence is neither painful or pleasurable, good or bad. 

This is surprisingly comforting. Uncomplicated and a relief. There was a time when I doubted I would ever be able to see nonexistence as desirable, and accept it as my destination. But I have really woken up and now see that it is so much more desirable than the alternative. 

 

 

The peace that I drawn from this is greater than being at the mercy of a capricious deity.

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

It took me a couple years to fully get over all the ways Christianity fucked me up

It’s been surprising to see just how deeply Christianity influenced me. And, to see how many subtleties of Christian thought remained embedded in my behaviors for years after rejecting it. I would say that the most significant ways in which Christianity f’d me up are:

 

Made me a “change agent”…always wanting to help people around me become some better version of themselves. I must have been so obnoxious. Finally, I have learned to just let people be who they are.

 

Magical thinking. Faith. Growing up around evangelicals taught me how to accept ideas without evidence. I can’t even begin to describe how disastrous this has been for my critical thinking skills. I’m so embarrassed for my young self, who accepted some very bizarre ideas as truths…because it felt right.

 

My sexuality. When I was young, sex was like the WORST thing that I could do. All these bizarre unnatural restrictions were in place. Sex was fear, shame, bad. I wish someone had explained to me that sex is enjoyable, natural, and fun.

 

 

since I've left Christianity I've felt a deeper connection to other people and other lifeforms in a way that I guess like I feel like we're all interlinked.

I have definitely been feeling this lately. I actually value life more as an Atheist. I feel like a fog has lifted and I see the world around me more clearly. For me, knowing that this isn’t forever makes me appreciate the experience even more.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...
On 6/17/2017 at 3:16 PM, JadedAtheist said:

It took me a couple years to fully get over all the ways Christianity fucked me up, some things were easier than others and death was surprisingly one of them (the fear of going to hell was an issue for a while, and getting over that was the key to me not worrying about death). My advice isn't advice as it is telling you the saying "time heals all wounds". It's been like 7 or 8 years since I left now and it feels like it all happened to a different person. This is quite the contrast to when I was first leaving and thought that God hadn't elected me to salvation (I was a Calvinist) and that he was going to go all Hebrews 8 on my ass.

 

As for what happens when we die and to the validity of NDEs: I don't think anything happens when we die, I think once we're dead that's it. We popped into existence out of the ether, and back into it we go in death. That said, since I've left Christianity I've felt a deeper connection to other people and other lifeforms in a way that I guess like I feel like we're all interlinked. I sometimes feel like I am getting the hint of "there's more", but I know this is more the emotional side of my brain coming into play here. As for NDEs, maybe there's something to them, but I think not.

JadedAtheist I couldn’t find a way to reply to you directly but wondered how you managed to “get over” your fear of hell?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a really good question. Thank you for asking because it provokes deep thought. I enjoyed reading all the responses you got as well. So, thank you to everyone. Fascinating stuff. 

 

I look at things differently from some. From what I have observed, some ex-Christians and non religious folks subscribe to the idea that modern science answers all their tough questions now. The hard corps atheist camp. Science books are the new bible. If a scientist says it, it’s true. That is the new default. They are to be trusted because after all, they wouldn’t lie or deceive us for personal gain or have ulterior motives like a religious leader would. Or would they?

What’s important to realize is the Big Bang is in fact a theory. Evolution is a theory. They are also very safe. In our society, you can’t rock the boat too much, can’t have the masses having free thought and all. But none the less, they are educated theories and scientists best guess as to origins based on study and data. It’s the alternative to religious origins. Regardless whether they are true or not they don’t answer what happens when we die or if consciousness lives on. There are other theories such as intelligent design (without religious overtones). But due to religious phobia you can’t discuss this theory openly without ridicule, but it’s out there. Christians love this one and they have soiled it by trying to draw ridiculous conclusions that the “intelligence” is somehow Jesus lol. But again, just a theory. It also doesn’t answer your question about death either.  

Currently, there are two dominant voices in the room, Atheists and Religious folks. I tend to think there is a little bit of truth in all of it. I’m more in the middle but to simplify it, I’m in the atheist camp. I lack belief in “gods” or “God” in the personal sense. However, I have no problem whatsoever acknowledging that there is or could-have-been intelligence of some form that assisted in our existence (universe, earth, life etc). What that is I don’t know. Hell, there are quantum physicists who believe we are living in some form simulation inside a multi universe . That shit is a lot of fun to read about. Again, theory. 

My point is you should keep your mind open and never stop exploring the endless possibilities of life and what it all means. Question EVERYTHING. Don’t stop at one thing and say “ahh ha that’s it.” Keep pushing. 

 

I find consciousness fascinating. It’s the last frontier so to speak. We simply don’t understand how it fully works or came to be. But there it is none the less. Look, everyone has an agenda. Everyone. You’ve already been fooled once by Christianity. Therefore you are succeptable to being deceived. As am I. So I don’t label myself saying I’m now atheist, deist, agnostic, agnostic deist, etc etc etc. I’m a fucking human. That’s what I am. A non religious Human lol. And I don’t have all the answers. No one does. They guess. They make shit up. Yes they literally make shit up. 

 

In my opinion, death should not be feared. It’s a part of life. Without death there is no life. Without life, there is no death. So if life is an adventure, death is also an adventure. For me, death is the ultimate adventure. And that to me is exciting. Keep an open mind and think positive. Fear enslaves. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Aaron81 said:

If a scientist says it, it’s true. That is the new default. 

That's why there is peer review.  It is not one person's idea automatically accepted as truth but any idea being confirmed by multiple independant sources.  All ideas need to be tested and verified, regardless of the scientist, this is the default.

 

11 hours ago, Aaron81 said:

What’s important to realize is the Big Bang is in fact a theory. Evolution is a theory. ... There are other theories such as intelligent design (without religious overtones). But due to religious phobia you can’t discuss this theory openly without ridicule, but it’s out there. Christians love this one and they have soiled it by trying to draw ridiculous conclusions that the “intelligence” is somehow Jesus lol. But again, just a theory. ... Hell, there are quantum physicists who believe we are living in some form simulation inside a multi universe . That shit is a lot of fun to read about. Again, theory. 

You make the common mistake of mixing the colloqual term "theory", that is just an idea someone has, with the scientific term "theory", that is an idea that has undergone peer review, testing, experimentation and has been verified as correct.

In science an idea is a hypothesis, no more than an untested thought.  It has to undergo extensive confirmation via multiple scientific disiplines to be upgraded to a theory.  So yes the big bang is a scientific theory, as is evolution, however intelligent design is only a hypothesis as it fails to hold up to testing.

So there is nothing to stop people talking about the ID hypothesis, no such religious phobia holding people back.  It is in fact a subject that has been debated for decades, had countless books written about it and has millions of believers.  What you may find is simple burn out on the subject.  It has in fact been argued for so long with no new evidence and a lot of bad science, that people are sick of rehashing the same old debates.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@@Wertbag My intention was to highlight the fact that we don’t have factual answers to origins or what happens when we die. We have theories. We have had several theories on how the moon was formed as well. Peer reviewed theories. I want to say they have changed the moon theory like 4 times. 

Therefore, in my OPINION, it would be beneficial to keep an open mind and continue exploring all possibilities.The fact that you felt it more important to snipe me instead of answering this woman’s question is very telling. Yea dude I get it, evolution and the Big Bang are widely accepted. I wasn’t advocating for intelligent design or simulation theories. I was simply pointing out he fact that there are in fact many theories on origin and life. I don’t give a shit if you like them or not or if they have a current peer review. The way modern science is advancing who knows what theories we will have in the future. 

When someone is struggling with fear of death they probably aren’t looking to a science book for comfort. Maybe some are but I didn’t sense that from her question. I said a hell of a lot more than what you highlighted and you seemed to have skipped over the main point I tried to highlight. Which was to keep an open mind and continue to search. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderator
On 10/9/2018 at 9:56 AM, Kat34 said:

JadedAtheist I couldn’t find a way to reply to you directly but wondered how you managed to “get over” your fear of hell?

 

Did you watch the TED talk on the 2nd post by Margee? 

 

Our current conversation has gone to the esoteric and exoteric aspects of religion, which tend to contradict one another. These are not different than what's happening between the two hemisphere's of the brain. What she is describing is the right as esoteric and all encompassing minded, and the left exoteric and focused on bringing the whole down to a finite perception. In short, the heaven and hell situation is dualistic, it's a pair of perceived opposites. One thing here, another thing over there. That is the product of the human left hemisphere brain in action. That's the, as it were, non-spiritual side of the brain

 

Just take that in for a moment.

 

We're looking right at how the bible is not only man made and full of inconsistent and contradicting concepts, but specifically WHY something produced by human minds would amount to inconsistent concepts between an all encompassing view (right hemisphere) tossed in along side not all encompassing views (left hemisphere) about god, after life, and the whole thing. It's in effect the non-spiritual oriented, left side of the brain informing the less than all encompassing ideas found in the christian mythology.

 

And that's a direct reflection of the ego consciousness of those human writers, to be frank. 

 

It's a religion (in it's orthodox presentation) based on emphasizing ego consciousness rather than something spiritual oriented like something more along the lines of transcendent of ego consciousness. Conceiving of an after life about pearly gates, streets of gold, jeweled crowns and other MATERIALISTIC concepts such as fire and brimstone, flames and burning, are the product of appealing to an ego consciousness (left hemisphere dominant) which only understands in terms of materialistic concepts and reasoning.

 

When I say christianity today is very low rung on the spiritual and philosophical spectrum, I mean that very bluntly. Hell is complete and total horse shit through and through, whether you take an atheist position or spiritual minded theistic position. It's the dumbing down of religion applied to the masses. 

 

And you can beat this thing if you continue trying!

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Aaron81 said:

@@Wertbag My intention was to highlight the fact that we don’t have factual answers to origins or what happens when we die. We have theories. We have had several theories on how the moon was formed as well. Peer reviewed theories. I want to say they have changed the moon theory like 4 times. 

Therefore, in my OPINION, it would be beneficial to keep an open mind and continue exploring all possibilities.The fact that you felt it more important to snipe me instead of answering this woman’s question is very telling. Yea dude I get it, evolution and the Big Bang are widely accepted. I wasn’t advocating for intelligent design or simulation theories. I was simply pointing out he fact that there are in fact many theories on origin and life. I don’t give a shit if you like them or not or if they have a current peer review. The way modern science is advancing who knows what theories we will have in the future. 

When someone is struggling with fear of death they probably aren’t looking to a science book for comfort. Maybe some are but I didn’t sense that from her question. I said a hell of a lot more than what you highlighted and you seemed to have skipped over the main point I tried to highlight. Which was to keep an open mind and continue to search. 

I'm sorry if I gave the impression of a personal attack, that certainly wasn't the intent.

I understand and agree with your point of keeping an open mind and completely agree that we will not ever know everything, that is not what I'm saying.

I was attempting to politely point out the correct use of the term "theory" matters.

If you say ID is a theory and evolution is a theory then you are giving them equal weight. You are saying they are two sides of a coin which is simply not true. 

I understand it wasn't your intention to advocate for ID but Christians have used those same arguments to attempt to force ID into science classes. "well evolution is only a theory", "they are just alternatives...". I advocate for clear lines between the two to make sure the religious cannot demand equality for their unsupported hypothesis. 

Again sorry if I sound bitter, my ire is directed at the proponents of ID and not yourself. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Wertbag My bad bro. Thanks for clarifying your intent. For me I give it all equal weight due to my lack of trust. Not saying that everyone should do that or that it’s the correct outlook I just don’t trust humans. After all, I was fooled by Christianity for 19 years. 

 

Take care!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Super Moderator
On 10/13/2018 at 10:56 AM, Aaron81 said:

...subscribe to the idea that modern science answers all their tough questions now.

I think that's a bit of an overstatement such as we usually hear from the Fundies. The difference between religion and science is that science does not pretend to have all the answers but religion does. I would add that any answers we actually do have came from science and not religion. The current fad is to knock science and scientists as having political/financial agendas and therefore they can't be trusted blah blah blah, but where might we be today without science showing us how to fly, use the Internet, microwave our Hot Pockets, get an organ transplant, and so on and so on. Also, look up the meaning of "theory" when used in a scientific context.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Jesus fuck me I get it. I’ll never talk shit about science again. Holy fuck. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.