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Goodbye Jesus

Original Sin


LogicalFallacy

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I have faith that God can protect me.  But I do all I can.  In the end it is always God.  But that doesn't mean I just stand there.

 

Stranger

Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So much for his faith!!!!!!!!!

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Oh, so you're reducing this to childish insults now. Lovely.

 

Actually I was serious.

 

Stranger

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Actually I was serious.

 

Stranger

I'm not going down the road of a political debate regarding guns. I will return when this has moved/returned to another subject.

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... this is what kids do when they are cornered! Lose any ability to reason!

 

You brought guns up...yet you're afraid to answer.

 

Stranger

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that is EXACTLY why you should not own firearms!

 

According to you, which is why I own firearms.

 

Stranger

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You brought guns up...yet you're afraid to answer.

 

Stranger

... the reason this was brought up was because (and you have proved) you are not suitable to own firearms!

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Ha Ha Ha Ha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So much for his faith!!!!!!!!!

 

There is nothing wrong with my faith.   

 

Stranger

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Maybe my motive for owning firearms is because of people like you.

 

Stranger

 

HUGE RED FLAG MODS!!! Please pay attention to this!!

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... the reason this was brought up was because (and you have proved) you are not suitable to own firearms!

 

So you determine who has a right to guns and who doesn't?   No, you would like to.  But you don't.

 

Stranger

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HUGE RED FLAG MODS!!! Please pay attention to this!!

 

Please.   If this is too much for you, step aside.   Thick skin was always needed in this forum.  I have it.  Why don't you?

 

Stranger

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For people reading this, the problem with this guy's fundie religion is this. For those that have never read this I will post the whole article and the link at the end.

 

This is an open letter Dr Marlene Winell wrote to Sarah Palin back in 2008. 

 

 

Dear Sarah,

As a former fundamentalist, I'd like to call you on what you are doing.

The media has labeled you "opaque" about your religion. Why? Because you have not been honest about the most important thing about you: the fact that you are a born-again charismatic on a mission from God. Most people who have never been entrenched in the subculture of fundamentalist Christianity may not understand what this really means, but I do. Like you, I was raised in the Assemblies of God and I was a zealous part of the Jesus Movement. Like you, my life was consumed with seeking God's will for my life and awaiting the imminent return of Jesus.

Former fundamentalists like me know that your worldview is so encompassing, authoritarian, and powerful that it defines who you think you are, the way you view the world, history, other people, the future, and your place in the world. It defines you far more than hockey mom, wife, hunter, governor, or VP candidate.

You believe that every bit of the Bible is God's perfect word. You, believe there is an unseen spiritual plain (Ephesians 6:12), and that on that plain there is an unseen war going on between good and evil beings, and that you are a leader in this war against evil. You believe that God has "called" you and "anointed" you to do his will. This is why you have accepted blessing for office through the "laying on of hands" and prayer to protect you from witchcraft.

So what does this mean for governing? What could Americans expect with you at the helm?

You cannot trust basic human decency or capability, because according to your dogma, we are sinful, weak, and dependant on God. And so, your decisions would not be based on expert advice or even your own reasoning, but on your gut-level, intuitive interpretation of God's will.

Your thinking necessarily is black or white. People and policies are either good or bad. After all, Jesus said, "He who is not with me is against me" (Matt. 12:30). Under your leadership, diplomacy and cultural nuance would be less important than not blinking. In a spiritual war, you don't negotiate with the devil.

Regarding social policy, as a believer in individual salvation, you would have an individual approach emphasizing morality and responsibility, not a community approach emphasizing structural solutions. You would be judgmental and controlling of personal behavior like sex, reproductive choice, and books borrowed from the library instead of addressing global warming, poverty, and world peace. Your belief in eternal hell-fire, your deference to a literally perfect Bible despite its cruelties, and your indoctrination to disbelieve your own compassionate instincts, may leave your moral core numb. You might recall the verse, "If a man will not work he shall not eat" (2 Thess. 3:10). However, faith-based initiatives would be okay because they would use caring to evangelize.

How about science? As it has in your governorship, your interpretation of the Bible would trump scientific scholarship and findings. You would continue to downplay the human role in global warming because God is in control. More importantly, you would not make the environment a priority because you do not expect the earth to last.

International affairs? Since your subculture has identified the establishment of Israel in 1948 as the beginning of the end, you would see war, epidemics, climate change, natural disasters, and water shortage, all as hopeful signs of Jesus' return. You would be a staunch supporter of Israel--though not of Jews--and deeply suspicious of countries like Russia identified with the antichrist in the end times literature. (You have publically said that you expect Jesus to return in your lifetime.)

The Assemblies of God denomination that has shaped your thinking teaches that working for peace is unbiblical and wrong because peace is not humanly possible without the return of Jesus (1 Thess. 5:2,3). Conflict, even outright war is inevitable, for Jesus came not to bring peace but a sword (Matt: 10:34-37). Like millions of fundamentalist Christians, you may actually find joy in global crises because these things portend His return (Luke 21:28).

But all of this certainty and fantasy in today's complex world is dangerous, Sarah. There was a time when all of humanity thought the world was flat. Today, the stakes for such massive error are much higher.

 

My message for you, Warrior Princess for God, is from all of us who know what you are about. How dare you presume to take responsibility for our country and our planet when you, in your own mind, do not consider this home? I mean home for the long haul, not just until your rescue arrives from space. How dare you look forward to Christ's return, leaving your public office empty like a scene from the movie, Left Behind?

What if you are completely wrong and you wreak havoc instead with your policies? If you deny global warming, brand people and countries "evil," support war, and neglect global issues, you can create the apocalypse you are expecting. And as it gets worse and worse, with world-wide crisis all around you, and you look up for redemption, you just may not see it. What then? In that moment, you and all who have shared your delusion may have the most horrifying realization imaginable. And it will be too late. Too late to avoid destruction and too late to apologize to all the people who tried to turn the tide and needed you on board.

And you, John McCain, how dare you endanger all of us for the sake of your politics? How dare you choose a partner who is all symbol and no substance, preying on the fears of millions of Americans. Shame on both of you. Leave this beautiful, fragile earth to us, the unbelievers in your fantasy. It's the only heaven we have and you have no right to make it a hell.

 

https://www.opednews.com/articles/An-open-letter-to-Sarah-Pa-by-Marlene-Winell-Ph-081015-112.html

 

 

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Please.   If this is too much for you, step aside.   Thick skin was always needed in this forum.  I have it.  Why don't you?

 

Stranger

I got real thick skin buddy. We don't take threats lightly at Ex-c.

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I got real thick skin buddy. We don't take threats lightly at Ex-c.

 

There was no threat.  There was  a reason given for why I own guns.   

 

You don't have the skin for this hun.    You have already demonstrated that.   

 

Stranger

 

 

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Ruby Ridge comes to mind for some reason...

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You realize our 2nd amendment is there to protect the civilian population from the government.   It was not for just home intruders.  All of the first 10 amendments, the Bill or rights, was there to protect us from our government.  

 

So, the government would now like to allow you a single shot 4/10., so you can hunt rabbits.    While they have assault rifles and high capacity magazines, to control you.

 

To be honest, if someone breaks into your home, and you have access to your gun,  What you want is a 12 gauge pump or semi-auto shotgun.   The gauge of the shot should be no lower than 4.   I myself like 00buck.   Yours will be the only story told.

 

Stranger

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hey guys I have to agree with stranger here. The second amendment wasn't about personal protection. It was about an armed citizenry that would be able to fight against invaders and/or there own govt if they ever attempt to take their rights away again. 

 

Our forefathers had just fought and won their rights. It makes sense that they would want to insure our ability to do the same if needed in the future. We are actually already restricted more than I think they would have wanted.

 

DB

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And fire arm ownership really shouldn't be in the thread here. You can't restrict someone's rights based on their fundamental christian beliefs. That is also a protected right. Just as we have a right to not believe.

 

DB

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And fire arm ownership really shouldn't be in the thread here. You can't restrict someone's rights based on their fundamental christian beliefs. That is also a protected right. Just as we have a right to not believe.

 

DB

I'm not sure anyone is really questioning anyone else's rights; so much as questioning the responsibility that comes with said rights.  I agree, though, that it might be about time to get this thread back on topic.

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I didn't bring them up in the argument.  You did.   Cause you're apparently scared of guns.

 

Stranger

 

No, we are scared of religious fanatics like you wanting unrestricted access to weapons that you are not mentally fit to operate. THAT scares the living shit out of me.

 

TRP on the other hand, based on what I know of him, I don't care what weapons he has. He, as far as I can tell, is a critical thinker and a reasonable person who is unlikely to go all allahu Akbar on me.

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Maybe my motive for owning firearms is because of people like you.

 

Stranger

So tell us Strange Stranger, what exactly do you mean by this?

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So tell us Strange Stranger, what exactly do you mean by this?

 

I would like to know that too Margee?

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... this is what kids do when they are cornered! Lose any ability to reason!

 

I'm not sure that Stranger ever had any ability to reason in the first place.

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I'm not sure that Stranger ever had any ability to reason in the first place.

... yes, you are correct!

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No, we are scared of religious fanatics like you wanting unrestricted access to weapons that you are not mentally fit to operate. THAT scares the living shit out of me.

 

TRP on the other hand, based on what I know of him, I don't care what weapons he has. He, as far as I can tell, is a critical thinker and a reasonable person who is unlikely to go all allahu Akbar on me.

 

Because one is a born-again believer he is a religious fanatic?   Because one is a born-again believer he is not mentally fit?

 

This is exactly what the Christian is up against today.   

 

How many of those who wrote the Constitution and Bill of Rights were 'fanatics'?

 

Stranger

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So tell us Strange Stranger, what exactly do you mean by this?

 

Read the anger and hate against Christians in many of those who posted here.   Not all by any means, but some.    It will be people like that which will one day enter churches and start shooting Christians.   Or just on an individual basis.    

 

Thus my motive.

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My friends...

 

Regardless of who first raised the subject, there is only one sub-forum in Ex-C where politically-charged issues such as the Constitution, the 2nd amendment and the ownership of guns should be discussed ...and the Lion's Den isn't it.

 

Totally Off Topic

Almost anything goes, including politics. Please confine political discussions to this area.

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/forum/14-totally-off-topic/

 

Thanks,

 

BAA.

 

 

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