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Goodbye Jesus

The Absolute


Guest end3

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No cherry picking. If you accept the rules laid out in one part of the OT you are obliged to accept them all. 

 

James 2 : 10

 

10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. 

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And what is a God-given Law that brooks no deviations, no exceptions and no concessions?

 

An... absolute... one, perhaps?

 

 

 

 

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Hmm...... I don't know if it is an absolute. In the United states political arena I see extremes. Both parties can be summed up fairly quickly on wedge issues they always like to play us with.

 

Republicans:

Usually use religion and religious values to gain votes which shouldn't even be in the equation.

 

Anti gay

At this point anti immigration 

Pro life

Pro gun

Taxes (dirty word in both parties) 

Do not like change even if existing policies are against the constitution

Tend to help out the rich and themselves more than anyone else, but try to say they are for the Middle class to get votes.

Always want to run America like a business because they own businesses. Usually only passing laws to help out their own businesses.

 

Democrats:

Like the republifools they will throw the religion card to gain votes but core values usually don't reflect biblical values

 

Pro gay 

Pro immigration (to the point of putting our citizens in danger)

Pro choice

Anti gun

Taxes (as always a dirty word that costs votes) 

Usually want to make major changes without regard to the constitution

Tend to help the poor more than anyone else so they can get theit votes. They also say they are for the Middle class but don't do shit for us.

 

Bother parties are filled with extremes. I may edit this list when I think of more issues they differ on. Both parties say the will lower the national deficit but neither have a real plan on how to do it. And so far haven't been successful.

 

I think most Americans want something in the middle. This is my idea of a perfect America.

 

The constitution is #1. All politicians should uphold and support it. All decisions should reflect it's values and our freedoms.

 

Religion shouldn't be used to gain votes as governmental decisions shouldn't be based on religion. But decisions should protect all religions and their beliefs to reflect our freedom of religion or in our case. Non religion.

 

Being LGBTQ is a civil issue. They should have all the rights that a hetero sexual has. Now that they can marry legally I think this issue should be dropped.

 

Immigration needs reform. But we do not need to make the same mistake Europe has by letting Syrian immigrants in. I hate to be this way but we are at war. Whether it is an issue we made worse or not doesn't matter. We are a target and we have to make sure we aren't letting the shooters into our country. Extreme vetting is necessary. 

 

I don't particularly agree with abortion. But I know it is here to stay. And I know some people would make horrible parents if forced to have an unwanted baby. But I think there is an acceptable compromise on the issue. Ban late term abortion unless the life of the mother or the child is in danger anyway. Premature babies can be born 2-3 months early and survive. 6 months is plenty of time for a woman to make a decision. 

 

Guns are a protected right. Shouldn't be a political issue. Leave em alone. (Constitution #1) same as freedom of speech. Right to privacy. 

 

And on the privacy note. Restrictions need to be placed on govt with that concern. HSA and other govt organizations have to much power.

 

Taxes need to be fair across the board and no one poor or rich should get special treatment for votes. We are all Americans. We should all be treated the same. Whether we are poor, rich, white, black, gay, or straight. And we aren't going to be able to bring down the deficit without taxes. 

 

And for the icing on the cake. Legalize Marijuana. Drinking sucks lol.

 

Dark Bishop

 

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You might find the liberals don't even think about Genesis. I'm not liberal, and I'm "anti Genesis" depending on the criteria and how you are defining that term.

 

Isn't the long term result that all the chosen True Believers (TM) end in up Heaven for eternity while all the sinners wind up in hell for eternity? That's what the bible says. And since the bible is gods message the world we can assume that's what the long term plan is. Ironically under said plan everyone lives forever :D

 

And you applying Genesis allegorically or literally? Cause that's a world of difference to the conversation.

That someone might not think about Genesis doesn't mean that their mode doesn't oppose the message. 

Regarding long term....what you stated are consequences, not the rationale for the reasoning or mechanism behind the rules. 

Literal to the verses I quoted...

 

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Define Absolute for us please?

 

And can you elaborate a bit more, rather than tossing out one line explain nothing posts?

 

We know that's a thread in itself....let's please just use a very extreme view.

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No cherry picking. If you accept the rules laid out in one part of the OT you are obliged to accept them all. 

That's fine, given I understood the entire picture, I might understand the proposed mechanism.  But I think we are given the big 10 and faith and grace to hold on to rather than our ability understand and perform the long list.

 

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I guess the point would be that to show that we are absolute in our love, that we are perfect, we must allow everything, because humans and objects are worthy of absolute love. 

...

 

I'm getting a bit confused.  How does a human show that they are giving/feeling/wanting/thinking about/hoping for/worthy of "absolute love"?

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We know that's a thread in itself....let's please just use a very extreme view.

Ok end I'm with delsoray I don't really understand what your trying to say. You said we all want absolute love. By that I guess you mean we are all looking to love someone and be loved. To that I guess I would agree. And for us that were christian I would agree that Jesus filled that longing while we believed in him. And that is precisely why  it is such a traumatizing event when one comes to the conclusion that it was all made up. In one instant you have lost your father, all of your brothers and sisters, your big brother Jesus, and even your own Definition of reality. 

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I'm getting a bit confused.  How does a human show that they are giving/feeling/wanting/thinking about/hoping for/worthy of "absolute love"?

Don't know that we can other than faith.

 

In my humble opinion, one, we would have to know the goal in order to derive a mechanism to attain the goal.....given we could.

What I see in the Law is a mechanism that we don't understand the objective or we might understand the reasoning.  Given that, here are ten guiding rules and faith and grace in the interim.

 

But back to the subject, minor in comparison, we have this movement of ignoring the mechanism and stipulations given by God that we might apply an absolute/extreme view to loving others and things.  I just see it as a mistake because it ignores the proposed mechanism.

 

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Ok end I'm with delsoray I don't really understand what your trying to say. You said we all want absolute love. By that I guess you mean we are all looking to love someone and be loved. To that I guess I would agree. And for us that were christian I would agree that Jesus filled that longing while we believed in him. And that is precisely why  it is such a traumatizing event when one comes to the conclusion that it was all made up. In one instant you have lost your father, all of your brothers and sisters, your big brother Jesus, and even your own Definition of reality. 

I've experienced divorce but not those losses.  I guess if there might be a upside, maybe it allows us to more fully look at the scope/definitions of our reality.

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That's fine, given I understood the entire picture, I might understand the proposed mechanism.  But I think we are given the big 10 and faith and grace to hold on to rather than our ability understand and perform the long list.

 

 

We've been here before End, years ago.  What was said then still applies now.

God's Law is absolute, just as He is absolute.  Therefore, it's not up to you to follow as much or as little of it as your understanding allows.  You don't get to choose how much or how little of the Law you want to follow.  You submit to God and follow all of it - or don't and you follow none of it.

 

Proverbs 3 : 5 & 6.

 

5Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; 

6in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.

 

But is submitting to anything an easy thing for you?

 

 

 

 

 

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We've been here before End, years ago.  What was said then still applies now.

God's Law is absolute, just as He is absolute.  Therefore, it's not up to you to follow as much or as little of it as your understanding allows.  You don't get to choose how much or how little of the Law you want to follow.  You submit to God and follow all of it - or don't and you follow none of it.

 

Proverbs 3 : 5 & 6.

 

5Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; 

6in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.

 

But is submitting to anything an easy thing for you?

 

 

 

 

 

Nor is it easy for anyone.....and the very reason he sent Christ.  Thanks, a wonderful segue to announce the good news.

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Nor is it easy for anyone.....and the very reason he sent Christ.  Thanks, a wonderful segue to announce the good news.

 

:jesus:

 

That segue was a bit contrived. And I'm not sure where the good part of your news is....try as I might, all I see is circular reasoning and sadistic nonsense.

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:jesus:

 

That segue was a bit contrived. And I'm not sure where the good part of your news is....try as I might, all I see is circular reasoning and sadistic nonsense.

I believe whether we subscribe to Christianity or not, we do subscribe to personal or public moral lines.  Christianity acknowledges our inability to hit the mark and puts a scapegoat, i.e. Christ, to make up for the lack of ability.   (And BAA was just being an ass....so I used the opportunity to beat him with the religion hammer).  We fight like children without a mother. 

 

But please feel free to ask my opinion on what you are seeing as nonsense.

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I believe whether we subscribe to Christianity or not, we do subscribe to personal or public moral lines.  Christianity acknowledges our inability to hit the mark and puts a scapegoat, i.e. Christ, to make up for the lack of ability.   (And BAA was just being an ass....so I used the opportunity to beat him with the religion hammer).  We fight like children without a mother. 

 

But please feel free to ask my opinion on what you are seeing as nonsense.

 

Look, if I was going to ever return to being a Christian (not likely), it would be with an outlook like yours. "We miss the mark and need a scapegoat." Legitimately, that is much milder than the fundamentalist, apologetic "good news" that is often spat at me.

 

However, I can acknowledge missing the mark because of my social conditioning and values/standards taught by my parents or community, not because of what the "Lord" calls "sin." I used to accept that I "needed" that scapegoat, but I now no longer believe that or think it's necessary. I don't believe in heaven or hell that I need to be saved from, it's nonsense. I'm curious to hear your thoughts. 

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Look, if I was going to ever return to being a Christian (not likely), it would be with an outlook like yours. "We miss the mark and need a scapegoat." Legitimately, that is much milder than the fundamentalist, apologetic "good news" that is often spat at me.

 

However, I can acknowledge missing the mark because of my social conditioning and values/standards taught by my parents or community, not because of what the "Lord" calls "sin." I used to accept that I "needed" that scapegoat, but I now no longer believe that or think it's necessary. I don't believe in heaven or hell that I need to be saved from, it's nonsense. I'm curious to hear your thoughts. 

As a brief aside, it is my considered opinion, having studied the holy book, that it was god who needed the scapegoat because he missed the mark in creating us with the capacity for free will and independent thought.  Having completely fucktified his creation, he first tried to pin the blame on Adam and Eve by setting them up to fail in the garden.  Later, he decided that murdering his own son would rectify the situation; but only after he impregnated his mother so that he could become his own son (like the motherfucker he is).  Now, we're all right back where we started, being blamed for knowing the difference between good and evil and choosing what we consider good.

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As a brief aside, it is my considered opinion, having studied the holy book, that it was god who needed the scapegoat because he missed the mark in creating us with the capacity for free will and independent thought.  Having completely fucktified his creation, he first tried to pin the blame on Adam and Eve by setting them up to fail in the garden.  Later, he decided that murdering his own son would rectify the situation; but only after he impregnated his mother so that he could become his own son (like the motherfucker he is).  Now, we're all right back where we started, being blamed for knowing the difference between good and evil and choosing what we consider good.

 

 Oh, I agree. This is for the sake of argument. 

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Nor is it easy for anyone.....and the very reason he sent Christ.  Thanks, a wonderful segue to announce the good news.

 

So do you follow Christ or the Law, End?

 

20 hours ago you wanted to follow (part of) the Law.

 

Christ or the Law, End... which is it?

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I believe whether we subscribe to Christianity or not, we do subscribe to personal or public moral lines.  Christianity acknowledges our inability to hit the mark and puts a scapegoat, i.e. Christ, to make up for the lack of ability.   (And BAA was just being an ass....so I used the opportunity to beat him with the religion hammer).  We fight like children without a mother. 

 

But please feel free to ask my opinion on what you are seeing as nonsense.

 

If you can't decide whether to follow Christ or the Law, then you've been using a rubber hammer, End.

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It's obvious, at least to non Christians, that one cannot follow the Bible without cherry picking. It would be impossible to adhere to conflicting ideas, and practicality comes into play as well. Much easier to simply do as you wish and claim you're sins are covered by the blood of Christ. It's kind of a chicken shit approach but there are really no other options for believers.

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It's obvious, at least to non Christians, that one cannot follow the Bible without cherry picking. It would be impossible to adhere to conflicting ideas, and practicality comes into play as well. Much easier to simply do as you wish and claim you're sins are covered by the blood of Christ. It's kind of a chicken shit approach but there are really no other options for believers.

As opposed to what, quitting.... it overwhelmed me, I quit, I couldn't figure it out, I quit.  gutless.

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As opposed to what, quitting.... it overwhelmed me, I quit, I couldn't figure it out, I quit.  gutless.

 

But that's exactly how Christianity messes with our heads, End.

It crushes us by setting standards we're doomed to fail at, making us feel ashamed and unworthy. 

Then, when we fail and we're low it holds out a magical cure.  'Just have faith and you'll feel better.'

Repeat cycle, over and over again.  

 

Isn't that how it goes with you?

 

 

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As opposed to what, quitting.... it overwhelmed me, I quit, I couldn't figure it out, I quit.  gutless.

How about their is no proof.... I quit. The facts don't add up..... I quit. That doesn't even make since..... I quit. Thats not even possible.... i quit. Ok so the bible says this...... but this (insert historical find here) says this...... i quit. Seriously? Oh for fucks sake this is bullshit.... I quit

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How about their is no proof.... I quit. The facts don't add up..... I quit. That doesn't even make since..... I quit. Thats not even possible.... i quit. Ok so the bible says this...... but this (insert historical find here) says this...... i quit. Seriously? Oh for fucks sake this is bullshit.... I quit

Yes, and then most of you pendulum towards intellectualism......and that answers everything.

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It's obvious, at least to non Christians, that one cannot follow the Bible without cherry picking. It would be impossible to adhere to conflicting ideas, and practicality comes into play as well. Much easier to simply do as you wish and claim you're sins are covered by the blood of Christ. It's kind of a chicken shit approach but there are really no other options for believers.

 

I've begun to think this recently. I was raised to believe that unbelievers didn't want to accept god "because they just wanted to be free to sin and do whatever they want." .....Now that I'm on this side of things, I see faith as a "get out of jail free" way to not give two shits about who you hurt along the way as long as god is appeased.

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